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Moving up the stream

Moving On

I think I got over the Naim shock by now. Happy thoughts are resounding in my head as I move up the line to see if I can get a taste of the true Naim sound. It's over my budget, but if I'm convinced I will find a way.

Naim Nait XS2 - Better. Decays are back, somewhat, and there's more soundstaging. To be more precise, the decays now trail off to the back. Still dark and gloomy, as if someone's yelling into a cave. The cave is grey, not black. In this regard it's similar to Arcam. It sounds like mp3 files. Give me CD quality at the very least.

Spektre was right. I didn't like this amplifier. Maybe I will come back to Naim when I'm financially ready to get their absolute best. Proac uses them in shows, so there must be something to it.
 
newworld said:
Moving On

Spektre was right. I didn't like this amplifier. Maybe I will come back to Naim when I'm financially ready to get their absolute best. Proac uses them in shows, so there must be something to it.
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Knowing both Naim and Proac I really don't get why people pair these up, these do not compliment each other in my opinion. Again I think its a matter of trying to grab peoples attention at a show rather than having a sound someone could happily live with, at least I couldn't. The XS2 struck me as HI FI, its still in too much of a hurry to reach the next note, then the next then the next. I felt much acoustic ambience, echo and reverb of familiar tracks were lost, this to me is not a component that gets out of the way of the music but intrudes horribly on the quality of recording, imposing its own set of values.
 
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I haven't heard any Naim gear but this makes me curious actually. That they sound radically different from others makes me interested...
 
davidro said:
I haven't heard any Naim gear but this makes me curious actually. That they sound radically different from others makes me interested...
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Worth a listen yes, but honestly though I don't think you'd like them David. With both the Nait 5 and XS2 I heard some fatiguing emphasis in the upper midrange, after a couple of hours of listening I actually had a genuine migraine, perhaps I have a particular negative sensitivity to Naim gear, I don't know.
 
David, judging from your taste, I can honestly say that you will have a trip listening to these amplifiers. And make sure you bring a friend to keep you from chucking the dealer's demo out the window. :D
 
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davidro said:
I might have asked you this before but have you heard the old school Naim gear too?
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If this question was directed at me, no, I haven't. I wonder if it sounds roughly the same. The newer ones are supposed to be less Naim-sounding. I don't know what that means...
 
I think the older chrome bumper and olive gear maybe emphasized the mids a bit and leading edges giving it a more seat of the pants ride to the music. But I also feel most of the newer black range has smoothed this off some, and maybe it is more model dependant within the range.

While in general terms-and I would get kicked in the balls on certain forums for saying this-I don't think Naim has ever been all about ultimate resolution, detail and hifi-ness, but more about upbeat presentation, the PRAT if you will, which I kind of hate that term though. I have had all generations of the gear in one form or another, and I have enjoyed it all for the most part.

With my Naim Uniti/Nap-100, it does most of what I need out of my system for the most part, I find it just funky enough, and also smooth enough, and still gives enough detail without being overbearing. To me I would say it just gets to the heart of the music for my ears, simply put, it makes music fun and enjoyable. If that means colorations of some sort, so be it, as others have put it, colorations I suppose resound all through the chain, it is just finding out what ones you can live with or not.

Anymore to me, the electronics aren't as big of a difference in the food chain as the speakers are, so I suppose I deal with that end more so. And probably to a bigger part, I have finally gotten to the point that I just don't really care about all this **** and just enjoy my music, but it is still fun to read about all the goings on! Tim
 
TimF said:
I think the older chrome bumper and olive gear maybe emphasized the mids a bit and leading edges giving it a more seat of the pants ride to the music. But I also feel most of the newer black range has smoothed this off some, and maybe it is more model dependant within the range.

While in general terms-and I would get kicked in the balls on certain forums for saying this-I don't think Naim has ever been all about ultimate resolution, detail and hifi-ness, but more about upbeat presentation, the PRAT if you will, which I kind of hate that term though. I have had all generations of the gear in one form or another, and I have enjoyed it all for the most part.

With my Naim Uniti/Nap-100, it does most of what I need out of my system for the most part, I find it just funky enough, and also smooth enough, and still gives enough detail without being overbearing. To me I would say it just gets to the heart of the music for my ears, simply put, it makes music fun and enjoyable. If that means colorations of some sort, so be it, as others have put it, colorations I suppose resound all through the chain, it is just finding out what ones you can live with or not.

Anymore to me, the electronics aren't as big of a difference in the food chain as the speakers are, so I suppose I deal with that end more so. And probably to a bigger part, I have finally gotten to the point that I just don't really care about all this **** and just enjoy my music, but it is still fun to read about all the goings on! Tim
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Do you think the Uniti itself has much of the Naim sound? I'm looking at a variety of options for streaming, but can't imagine streaming devices having as much influence as the amplifiers.
 
When using it as a one-box player/amplifier, it does retain Naim sound, yet it is a smoother sonic signature to me. I find this player can sound extremely good, and also, pretty subpar based on what it sits on. Mine seems to benefit from being sited on a Base isolation platform, seems to take a slight bit of hardness out of it. I really do love this piece of gear and also enjoy the build quality of it.

When using the Uniti with the internal amp shut off and using the Naim Nap-100 power amp, things are better yet, very subtle, but an improvement in drive and lower noise floor. I find the little Nap-100 to be a very nice, fairly transparent amplifier. About the only real thing I find irritating in the Naim line is the amplifier selection, typically fairly low power capability compared to what else is out there, and things get very expensive quickly once you cross that 50-60 wpc line. Also, their claims on high current drive while good, still is not up there with what other brands are capable of. Not a big deal if you have easier to drive, more efficient speakers.

I also use this as a streamer/source only at times when I plug its analog outs into my Plinius integrated. In this mode, it is very transparent with no appreciable signature to it to my ears.

Bottom line, the Uniti is kind of a totally different animal compared to the rest of the Naim classic line. Tim
 
TimF said:
When using it as a one-box player/amplifier, it does retain Naim sound, yet it is a smoother sonic signature to me. I find this player can sound extremely good, and also, pretty subpar based on what it sits on. Mine seems to benefit from being sited on a Base isolation platform, seems to take a slight bit of hardness out of it. I really do love this piece of gear and also enjoy the build quality of it.

When using the Uniti with the internal amp shut off and using the Naim Nap-100 power amp, things are better yet, very subtle, but an improvement in drive and lower noise floor. I find the little Nap-100 to be a very nice, fairly transparent amplifier. About the only real thing I find irritating in the Naim line is the amplifier selection, typically fairly low power capability compared to what else is out there, and things get very expensive quickly once you cross that 50-60 wpc line. Also, their claims on high current drive while good, still is not up there with what other brands are capable of. Not a big deal if you have easier to drive, more efficient speakers.

I also use this as a streamer/source only at times when I plug its analog outs into my Plinius integrated. In this mode, it is very transparent with no appreciable signature to it to my ears.

Bottom line, the Uniti is kind of a totally different animal compared to the rest of the Naim classic line. Tim
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Thanks for that. This kind of one box streaming solution is appealing to me. I really like what Linn and Naim are doing in this regard.
 
I am certainly in the simple is good these days. Less is more in this instance. And while the thing sometimes has hiccups, it is usually due to my crappy Internet service, not the device itself.

Another thing I have to say here is that even though I have the Uniti1, Naim still supports it well with software upgrades, and also mine had a Dac upgrade board installed early after I bought it. I guess I can say I "bought" into Naim for a few reasons, sound, build and service, and all have been excellent. I feel I have a very serviceable piece of gear for a fairly long haul in today's typical throw away world. Tim
 
So here's what I'm thinking...

I absolutely loved what the Musical Fidelity M3i did with my Proac's. The speaker cable I used at the time was Audioquest Rocket 33. What I didn't like about the cable was that it was very attenuated on top and the bass was somewhat loose. I remember thinking to myself that if I could bring back the heft (note I said heft, not brightness) on treble, and control (note I said control, not tight) to bass, it will indeed be the perfect system I've been dreaming about. Then I thought, hell, I just described what I like about my speakers. So I'm guessing clean and neutral, again, is the way to go for cabling.

What cables should I be looking at?
 
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I like RCAs made of coax cable for my interconnects. I hear less difference between cables with coax. I figure they're all rated out to video frequencies, but terminated with decent RCA connectors. Hence, they're shielded and somewhat neutral compared to other choices. But that's just me - for me.

The trick is also to eliminate smear. Smear is something you don't know is there until it's eliminated.

For example, to eliminate smear, I recently changed out my reference system's Nordost Blue Heaven 4 meter cables (silver coated copper and called a value leader by knowledgeable folks) with an alloy made of copper, silver, and zinc called The Inspiration by Van Den Hul.

The difference?
The Nordosts are like a clean swept hardwood floor that's been mopped.
The Van Den Huls are like a hardwood floor that's just been stripped and polyurethaned.
The difference is degrees of smear.
Your mileage may vary.
 
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newworld said:
Then I thought, hell, I just described what I like about my speakers. So I'm guessing clean and neutral, again, is the way to go for cabling.

What cables should I be looking at?
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Too much of a good thing can upset your system balance, there are plenty of good rich cables out there that also have control.

I tried some Nordost Blue Heaven and it sounded extremely clean, detailed with a lot of instrumental separation but again it just didn't sound good to my ears (you may find different). To me Nordost cables have exactly the same sonic signature as Naim amps, fast transient response but at the expense of things like extended reverb, acoustic ambience, echo, "emotion" thats been engineered into the recording. As with speakers and amps its worth trying to audition different brands to see if they'll harmonize (to you) with the rest of your system.
 
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Spektre said:
Too much of a good thing can upset your system balance, there are plenty of good rich cables out there that also have control.

I tried some Nordost Blue Heaven and it sounded extremely clean, detailed with a lot of instrumental separation but again it just didn't sound good to my ears (you may find different). To me Nordost cables have exactly the same sonic signature as Naim amps but at the expense of thing like extended reverb, acoustic ambience and echo thats been engineered into the recording. As with speakers and amps its worth trying to audition different brands to see if they'll harmonize (to you) with the rest of your system.
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I've tried Nordost up and down the line. I can see why you would think that Nordost and Naim sound alike, but Naim is not detailed at all. Nordost strips the detail down to bare bones. Ugh! Why do you have to bring up Naim, again? My day was going just great. :D Can you imagine Naim amps with Nordost cables? :no:
 
newworld said:
I've tried Nordost up and down the line. I can see why you would think that Nordost and Naim sound alike, but Naim is not detailed at all. Nordost strips the detail down to bare bones. Ugh! Why do you have to bring up Naim, again? My day was going just great. :D Can you imagine Naim amps with Nordost cables? :no:
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Your right that N@!m amps don't dig out detail the same as Nordost, I was just thinking of their speed of sonic delivery.

Yeah, to me they are a match made in hell but there are going to be some people that love this combo, sorry to spoil your day I'll be more careful in future not to NAME them. :D
 
audiodon said:
Yeah but look at all that floor reflection and suckout you'll get with the gleaming hardwoods.
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Maybe I will strip and polyurethane my hardwood laminate floor for sound improvement. That's certainly cheaper than buying a new set of cables! :D
 
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