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Mullard 6CA7 vs Matsushita 6CA7 Tubes

He was talking about used tubes... He is a tube reseller... He no longer carries Matsushita 6CA7 tubes because a lot of them do not pass minimum measurements. The one quad of Matsushita 6CA7s that I kept is not maintaining the bias point. I have to constantly rebias the tubes after warming up the amplifier. It does seem to be settling down though.

I am still enamored with the sound. It is very close if not equal to the genuine Mullard 6CA7 XF2 Blackburn tubes that I have.
 
I just received my four NOS in original sealed boxes Matsushita 6CA7 tubes... I gingerly opened the boxes, the tubes were enclosed in a nifty cardboard sleeve that protected them during handling. I immediately put them in my MaxiMatcher II tube tester and let them warm up for 15 minutes before measuring. One pair (the tubes came in two boxes, one pair per box) measured ~29 mA and the other tube measured ~33 mA. Surprisingly, the second pair measured ~33mA and ~29 mA. So in effect I got two perfectly matched pairs...

I put the two 29 mA tubes in one channel of my Willsenton amplifier and the 33 mA tubes in the other channel. I am absolutely enamored by these tubes. They sound almost if not as good as my Mullard XF2 EL34 quads. The sound is superb, detailed and focused with a broad soundstage with good depth. In comparison, my Groove Tubes EL34M sounds flatter with less depth and width. I have a lot of EL34s, Psvane Legend EL34PH, Psvane Treasures 6CA7-T, reissued Mullard EL34s, Electro Harmonix EL34, Electro Harmonix 6CA7 fat bottles and reissued Tung-Sol EL34Bs. and reissued Sov-TEK EL34s. These tubes do not even come close to the Matsushita. I understand why the Matsushitas are called the poor-man's Mullards.

I paid over $500 for these tubes, while a bit expensive, they are NOS in original sealed boxes. I see a lot of used Matsushita quads going for $600-900/quad. To compound matters, the seller does not appear to measure the tubes, so I don't know how they price the used tubes. I am now trolling for another quad of these tubes as a backup.
 
Jon S Thanks for your input. We know Matsushita had Mullard tooling but what about quality control on metals. I wonder why two of your tubes measure 29 mA and two measure 33 mA. Guessing they were made around the same time and packaged together. Why are you seeing a difference?. If materials were consistent wouldn't we get tighter tube measurements? Just a thought.
 
Jon S Thanks for your input. We know Matsushita had Mullard tooling but what about quality control on metals. I wonder why two of your tubes measure 29 mA and two measure 33 mA. Guessing they were made around the same time and packaged together. Why are you seeing a difference?. If materials were consistent wouldn't we get tighter tube measurements? Just a thought.
didnt the story start out as "mullard engineers helped set up matsushitas production"
and later become "matsushita had mullard tooling?"

a lot of their tubes resemble mullard, but a few resemble valvo more.
 
I have heard more than one story. The Matsushita glass shows the same seems on top as the Mullard's.
 
The GE tube has the "188-5" identifier stamped on the base. This was applied to all tubes that were manufactured in the Owensboro, Kentucky plant. Yet the bottle is stamped
"GT. Britain". I have never seen this before.

Don’t trust the silkscreen as obviously one of those markings is a lie.

Look for the small acid etching if it’s a 3 or 4 character code starting with “B” they are Blackburn Mullards, despite the 188-5 code.

As to differences, one has to decide that individually. The true Mullards will command higher prices due to demand, but the Japanese tube may deliver what you love for less, It’s all up to you.
 
Jon S Thanks for your input. We know Matsushita had Mullard tooling but what about quality control on metals. I wonder why two of your tubes measure 29 mA and two measure 33 mA. Guessing they were made around the same time and packaged together. Why are you seeing a difference?. If materials were consistent wouldn't we get tighter tube measurements? Just a thought.
No... That's not how it works... Tube manufacturers try to maintain consistent quality in their tubes but it is impossible to manufacturer all their tubes with the same measurements. The MaxiMatcher manual states that typical EL34 tubes plate voltage can vary between 22-50 mA, but usually a manufactured tube will vary only by about 10-15 mA. My Psvane Legend EL34PH quad measures between 24-36 mA, pretty bad matching. I have five Mullard reissued EL34 quads and they measure between 43-59 mA. I also have six quads of Electro Harmonix 6CA7s and they measure between 41-59 mA (but each quad measured only a couple per cent of each other, the quads were bought separately and the vendor matched them together for me. BTW, half of these tubes were gifted to me when the owner went to KT88 amplifiers).

Normally, independent tubes sellers will receive a case of 48 tubes from the manufacturer. They will then measure and sort out the tubes by their values. That's why they will state "matched" tubes. They will sell a quad that have closely matched values, they don't just grab any four from the box. For example, I have a total of five quads NOS Groove Tubes (that I got at a great price if I bought out the remaining stock) that was matched by the seller. The quads measured 30.7-31.0, 32.2-32.9, 34.9-35.3, 35.5-35.8 and 29.3-30.5 mA (excellent matched values, BTW). The vendor tested all the tubes and sorted them into closely matched quads.

Do not believe that the manufacturers measure and sell their tubes in matched sets, especially Chinese tubes. My TOTL Psvane 6CA7-T3 "matched" quad measured between 31-36 mA and my Psvane EL34-Z measured between 34-40 mA. Viva Tubes buys the Psvane tubes in bulk and will measure and sort the tubes by value. That's why the EL34-PH tubes they sell do not come in the nice box that Psvane sells the tubes in. Viva Tubes sells them sorted in Psvane's OEM generic tube box. In fact, if you order the same tubes later, you can specify the values for the plate current, that way all the tubes will have the same value.

If you buy tubes from Amazon direct or other large resellers, you really don't know what you are getting. Amazon receives hundreds of tubes from the manufacturer at a time. If you buy a quad from them, they will just grab the tubes from their boxes and send them to you. You don't know how closely matched the tubes will be. The only safe bet when buying from Amazon is if the tube resellers (e.g. Viva Tubes) are selling through Amazon's store front as they will usually match the tubes prior to shipping. Psvane sells through Amazon direct, so you won't get the same tube matching service. Don't believe that Psvane pre-tests the tubes before shipping to Amazon. I have read horror stories of how the Psvane Horizon tubes were either DOA or noisy out of the box even though Psvane says they burn-in and test the tubes for 24-hours before shipping.
 
Jon S. Thanks for this informative post. It seems like the longer I play with tubes the less I know. Nothing is clear cut on all the re branding and different companies history. All the differences between brands is mind blowing. The word matched is extremely over used now a-days when it comes to tubes. I have some free time this morning so I will be playing the Sansui Q55 amps. The bias balanced in nicely. I will report back my findings today. Thanks Rick
 
I am beginning to realize that synergy between tubes is the most important factor in the sound of the amplifier. When using my Groove Tubes EL34-M tubes, the music sounds best with the Sylvania VT229/VT231 tubes. When using the Psvane EL34-PH, it sounds best with the Ken-Rad 6SN7/RCA 6SL7 "smoked glass" tubes (otherwise, the Psvane's sounds pretty mediocre with other tubes). Now with these Matsushita 6CA7 tubes, the best combinations is either with the RCA 6922 red-base and RCA 6SN7 "smoked glass" tubes or the Sylvania 6SN7-W metal-base and Sylvania VT-229 tubes. The Matsushitas sound clearer with the RCAs with a huge wall of sound but there is a lot more "air" with the Sylvanias with better depth.

When using current production tubes (Tung-Sol 6SN7/6SL7) the Matsushita sounds very clean but the soundstage is very flat with no depth, like a solid state amplifier.

So while a power tube may sound great with set pre-amp tubes, it may not be the same with another power tube.
 
I am beginning to realize that synergy between tubes is the most important factor in the sound of the amplifier. When using my Groove Tubes EL34-M tubes, the music sounds best with the Sylvania VT229/VT231 tubes. When using the Psvane EL34-PH, it sounds best with the Ken-Rad 6SN7/RCA 6SL7 "smoked glass" tubes (otherwise, the Psvane's sounds pretty mediocre with other tubes). Now with these Matsushita 6CA7 tubes, the best combinations is either with the RCA 6922 red-base and RCA 6SN7 "smoked glass" tubes or the Sylvania 6SN7-W metal-base and Sylvania VT-229 tubes. The Matsushitas sound clearer with the RCAs with a huge wall of sound but there is a lot more "air" with the Sylvanias with better depth.

When using current production tubes (Tung-Sol 6SN7/6SL7) the Matsushita sounds very clean but the soundstage is very flat with no depth, like a solid state amplifier.

So while a power tube may sound great with set pre-amp tubes, it may not be the same with another power tube.
ive found the same to be true between source and preamp. i had ...i forget what tubes i had in my dac; when i swapped out the tubes in my line stage for brimar yellow t 6060, it was syrupy. big difference. so i swapped out the tubes in my dac for some that had it sounding a bit harsh, and that combination was great.
 
Well, I waited too long... The Willsenton R8 bias pot failed and took out one of my 6CA7 tubes which red plated... I replaced all the bias pots several months ago with Bourns since I could not find any Vishays with the right values. The Bourns were rated for 50,000 cycles of use just like the Vishays. The Vishays are metal encapsulated and the Bourns are plastic.

I have to get a new bias board. I opened up the amp and the bias board was burned where the burned bias pot was soldered in. I tried replacing the pot but the continuity was bad. Bummer.
 
I have to get a new bias board. I opened up the amp and the bias board was burned where the burned bias pot was soldered in. I tried replacing the pot but the continuity was bad. Bummer.
Yeah, anything that affects the bias voltage connected to the tubes and can threaten the bias stability. Often, it's inconsistent contact between the tube/socket.
 
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