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My amp is too loud??

BobEDigital

BobEDigital

New Member
Hey All, I'm an amateur audio enthusiast and have been enjoying cruising goodwills, craigslist, and other marketplaces for undervalued pieces I grab up to restore and update. I feel pretty confident cracking the cases, cleaning components, and replacing where necessary (and sometimes when not...). However, I've run into something that's perplexed me. My Sansui G-4500 is in great shape - replaced all the lights, cleaned up the boards, and did one of those unnecessary recaps mentioned above. The issue I've run into is that this beast is too damn loud. The volume dial is broken into 10 units, with each of those units being dissected into quarters. I can rarely stand going over 2.25 with line level inputs. I've tried a variety of sources and unless the line level input can be adjusted (phone in this case) it is just simply too loud to be enjoyable. Things I've already checked:
>Multiple input sources on all sources available on the receiver
>Loudness switch isn't stuck 'on'
>Multiple different speaker sets

Is this just a really powerful receiver or is there something in need of fixing? Thanks!
 
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Speaker sensitivity could be the issue. What type of speaker is in use?

It is common for amps to reach full potential listening volume at the 12:00 position. Reaching that level at around the 9:00 position could due to either very efficient speakers or high voltage line levels coming into the amplifier.
 
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What are you using as your source for music? Is it the phono, iPod, etc...? What speakers are you using, and what is the sensitivity?

You may find more assistance if you post this thread in the "Exclusively Sansui" forum. There will be plenty of experts there ready and willing to ask the right questions to assist you in your quest.
 
BobEDigital said:
The issue I've run into is that this beast is too damn loud.
Click to expand...

Your wording gives the impression that this occurred after your cleaning/refurbishing, not having been a problem before. If so you will have to check the components in the signal path for possible wrong values, or anything else which could have increased the gain. NFB path also restored? Possible different component values there?

I agree with Eiraved above.
 
All speakers tested have been 8 or 6 ohms. I even tested with a pair of mated Sansui SP-X8000. As for sources in I've tried phono, cd, tape, radio, iPhone. The line level from my CD player and tape players (that work seemlessly with other components) are still too loud. To clarify the problem a little more I notice no clipping or distortion. This problem was present prior to replacing components, I was kind of hoping my that might be the issue. I also made very sure that: a) capacitors were factory and b) I replaced with the correct values. I feel sheepish... but what's the long form of NFB path?

I could throw this over to the sansui exclusive forum, I just wasn't sure if this was semi typical in vintage gear.

EV13WT, this sounds possible. Could you expand?
 
The volume control is something the manufacturer can control how fast it gets loud. Like a gas pedal, tap it and zoom or tap it and slowly move away from the line. Some might think the zoom is more powerful but it has nothing to do with power but how the pedal response was designed. Your 4500 might be designed to go fast too early. This would be a question for the Sansui board.

NFB is negative feedback

In line attenuators are available from Parts-express and simply cut the signal down that goes through them. If you are getting too loud before 10:00 on the dial you could put then on the sources as they plug into the 4500. Unfortunately these are a few inch long straight devices and you might need to make something to use as you have that shelf in back for the inputs and outputs. 3dB won't do much, one small change in volume. 12dB might be something that can help.
 
BED: Your receiver doesn't sport a pre-out/main-in bridge, so you can't use attenuators there, as suggested by e13w - however, if you don't need the tape-loop, you could integrate attenuators (or a diy cable with integrated attenuation/voltage division) there. In that case, the extra attenuation would be switchable via the tape monitor switch.

The big plus of integrating attenuators/attenuator cables via pre-out/main-in bridge or tape-loop is that you only need one pair for all sources. However, individual attenuators/attenuator cables for each source input can of course be more attractive, if one wants to use a couple of sources with comparatively different line-out levels.

The interesting question is, what might be more attractive in your case, given that your Sansui only offers one phono input and two line-level inputs, one of these being the tape input - so with attenuators/attenuator cables in the tape-loop you'd only have one remaining line-in.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Blue Shadow said:
The volume control is something the manufacturer can control how fast it gets loud. Like a gas pedal, tap it and zoom or tap it and slowly move away from the line. Some might think the zoom is more powerful but it has nothing to do with power but how the pedal response was designed. Your 4500 might be designed to go fast too early. This would be a question for the Sansui board.

NFB is negative feedback

In line attenuators are available from Parts-express and simply cut the signal down that goes through them. If you are getting too loud before 10:00 on the dial you could put then on the sources as they plug into the 4500. Unfortunately these are a few inch long straight devices and you might need to make something to use as you have that shelf in back for the inputs and outputs. 3dB won't do much, one small change in volume. 12dB might be something that can help.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: This was my first thought, too.

http://sound.whsites.net/pots.htm#taper
 
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BobEDigital said:
All speakers tested have been 8 or 6 ohms.
Click to expand...
Sansui SPX -8000 has 98dB sensitivity, which would explain why the G-4500 sounds too damn loud. My Cornwall speakers are loud at the 9:00 position, and that is in a room measuring 20 feet by 20 feet with cathedral ceilings! Those Sansui speakers are nowhere near as good as the Cornwall. Maybe you should find a better speaker pair that either isn’t as efficient, or an improved efficient pair like those from Klipsch.
 
BobEDigital said:
Is this just a really powerful receiver or is there something in need of fixing? Thanks
Click to expand...
The G-4500 is only rated at 40 wpc, so it’s not a monster receiver by any stretch of the imagination.

You mentioned that your receiver was too loud prior to servicing it, and nothing has changed, even after a full recap and service? Sounds to me the problem lies in your choice of speakers. If they are vintage, t’s possible the crossovers are in need of thorough inspection and a recap.

In the case of the SP-X8000, those speakers are known for lacking accurate low frequency reproduction (stiff woofer surrounds and short throw, small speaker cabinet size). This and their high sensitivity may account for why you can’t stand listening to them at elevated volume.

Where do you live? It’s possible that one of our AK members lives nearby and can assist with speaker selections for your G-4500. We’re always eager to help!
 
Three of my speaker sets are pretty sensitive. 9:00 on the volume control is very loud, and thats using 35wpc amp. I do have a set of inline attenuators for my CDP. But at around $25 a pop that can get expensive if you have several other inputs.
 
Curious to see what pops up in this thread. I have an older Sherwood solid state that does the same thing that's described in the OP. Just turn the volume knob up very slightly and it gets LOUD LOUD right now ! Waaaay out of proportion to what should be happening.
 
There are speaker switches used to allow multiple speakers to be fed from one source with out decreasing impedance to a dangerously low situation. Some of these switches have volume controls. This, most certainly would be a help for you. I have one made by a company called Niles.
 
Lavane said:
Basically my setup. Master volume on the preamp and a gain control on the amplifier.
Click to expand...

The convenient thing about the Schitt Sys in this case is that it's just a passive attenuator/switch box. So, its output can go right into one of the existing line inputs on the OP's receiver to cut the signal level as necessary. That will facilitate more usable range of the volume control, allowing finer resolution of adjustment.
 
whoaru99 said:
The convenient thing about the Schitt Sys in this case is that it's just a passive attenuator/switch box. So, its output can go right into one of the existing line inputs on the OP's receiver to cut the signal level as necessary. That will facilitate more usable range of the volume control, allowing finer resolution of adjustment.
Click to expand...

Ding-ding-ding, we have a winnah!

I do want to ask the diyers, though, is it at all practical to replace the log volume control pot with a linear?
 
I'm wondering if the problem is actually, really a problem in the amp/preamp section. I have encountered what you describe, but only once. It was with a restored Sansui 9090 when I ran it with 4 ohm speakers. At the time, I thought it was poor synergy, but maybe it is some crucial component to gain that has changed values over time. Mind you, that shouldn't have been the case for my 9090, unless it was a component that wasn't replaced.

I am curious about what you find.

My recommendation to the guy who bought the 9090 was that he should use inefficient speakers with it. This was very early in my return to audio. Now I would check it out for some adjustment. And I would test with a wide range of speakers, which I have a plenty.
 
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