My soldering skills pay off...
- Thread starter coonmanx
- Start date
It looks like they possibly just lay the wire into a "slot" where it pinches from the sides and over time with corrosion, you are loosing contact. Ever spun batteries in your remote controls? Can you take a tweezer and squeeze the two sides together on each wire to restore a better contact?
Sounds like a good idea. I can try that tomorrow. I need to get to work soon today...It looks like they possibly just lay the wire into a "slot" where it pinches from the sides and over time with corrosion, you are loosing contact. Ever spun batteries in your remote controls? Can you take a tweezer and squeeze the two sides together on each wire to restore a better contact?
spicer
Lunatic Member
Sure do look like relays, the other side of the board would confirm, I would hit them somewhat lightly with a screwdriver handle when it isn't working but, since you said touching the connector makes it run I'd insure everything about it and all its connections are good. I'd see how light of a touch makes it run, sometimes a bad connection can hide behind even a light touch since it might transfer the action to a bad area or component. From your description though I think you've found it, the connector, it's connection to the board or an open in the wire itself right at the point of attachment. looks like you're going to fix this thing.
there are motor run caps and motor start caps. Some motors use one or the other, some use both. I see "For Motor St" before its cut off by the bracket, so probably a start cap. Either way if its bad, generally the motor won't start, and/or it will get good and hot when running.
Definitely believe that I have found the part that is the issue. Yesterday when I went to work the door would not go down properly. So I got out of the car, took the remote with me and grabbed my 2-step step ladder. I found that by pushing on the connector and holding it down after I hit the button on the remote, the door would go all the way down and not stop. So it appears that it is the connector or something very close to it. Previously I had reflowed the solder joints where the pins attach to the board, but obviously that was not the fix. I guess the only other possibility would be that I am flexing the board in that area with the pressure I am putting on the connector, and that is affecting something else.
I will play around with the connector today and see what I can find out. My concern would be that inside that connector there are "female bullet" connectors that have somehow loosened over time and need to be pinched back together to be tighter. But in order to do that I would have to remove each wire individually from the connector. I will look into all of that today and report back. First order of business will probably be to use some contact cleaner and see if that works...
Not sure if I am using the correct terminology when talking about the individual connectors inside of the plastic housing. Basically I am talking about the part that wraps around the pin when the connector is pushed on. I know a lot of times you can get them out of the plastic housing by using something like a small pick. In this case maybe I have to spread those two metal pieces that crimp around the wire and then I can just pull them out. As I said, I need to look at it more closely in order to figure it all out...
Worst case is that it was board flex and that is affecting a different part of the board. But when I had the board out I did not see any obvious broken traces or broken solder joints of any kind. So here's to hoping that it is just the connector and nothing more...
spicer
Lunatic Member
The odds are in your favor with the connector. At the very least you know it is a bad connection and that can be fixed. When you get it working odds are that it will continue to work for years.
Well here is the bottom of the connector:
I actually took a small screwdriver and pushed in on the fifth one (the purple wire). It kind of stayed down. Worked right now when I ran the door up and then down again. No guarantee that it will do the same later. I am thinking that the proper way to do the fix would be to spread that crimp that was in a previous photo. That crimp holds the wire in place and then maybe if I pushed in here like I just did I could pull the wire out and then squeeze the connector a bit and put it back in and then recrimp. Lots of work but probably the correct way to go about it...
Also if it faults again maybe I could use a small screwdriver to push in on one of those and see if I can locate exactly which one is the problem. But there is a pulley underneath that connector and I am not sure that I would have room to do that...
Will take another look at it again later. At least I think I know what is going on at this point in time...
I actually took a small screwdriver and pushed in on the fifth one (the purple wire). It kind of stayed down. Worked right now when I ran the door up and then down again. No guarantee that it will do the same later. I am thinking that the proper way to do the fix would be to spread that crimp that was in a previous photo. That crimp holds the wire in place and then maybe if I pushed in here like I just did I could pull the wire out and then squeeze the connector a bit and put it back in and then recrimp. Lots of work but probably the correct way to go about it...
Also if it faults again maybe I could use a small screwdriver to push in on one of those and see if I can locate exactly which one is the problem. But there is a pulley underneath that connector and I am not sure that I would have room to do that...
Will take another look at it again later. At least I think I know what is going on at this point in time...
Do you see in that photo where the crimp is basically just to hold the wire in place and has no electrical function because it is only crimped down to the insulation on the wire?It looks like they possibly just lay the wire into a "slot" where it pinches from the sides and over time with corrosion, you are loosing contact. Ever spun batteries in your remote controls? Can you take a tweezer and squeeze the two sides together on each wire to restore a better contact?
While I've never had this type of connector fail, I've never had much faith in them. They are a set of knife edges on the top designed to cut through the insulation and latch onto the wire when they are seated with a blunt tool during assembly.
The six pins to the right appear to be dark discoloration from oxidation in your side view.
The six pins to the right appear to be dark discoloration from oxidation in your side view.
I am wondering if that is just the lighting when I took the photo because I don't think they actually look dark like that at all. I will take another look...
Are you saying that if I push in on one of those that it will actually cut into the wire some more? If that is the case then maybe I could just push in on all of them.
Yeah, I just checked and there is no oxidation. It was just the lighting of the photo. Also to me, those just look like the release tabs that you often find in plastic connectors. When you push the wire and connector into place the tab locks the connector so that it does not move. If you want to remove the wire and connector from the plastic housing then you push down on it and it releases, allowing someone to pull the wire and connector out of the housing. Am I wrong about that?
Or am I missing it completely and you are talking about the part where I say it just crimps the wire and holds it in place so it does not move?
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Except I was talking about the ones on the bottom of the connector. The ones in the last photo I posted... As I said I thought the other ones were crimped to hold the wire in place and keep it from moving. If they have barbs on them then I can try to squeeze them together like you suggested. I just didn't see any barbs...
I just went out there to see if there was any way that I could squeeze those crimps together and there really is not. They are just too close together and that risks causing a short, not to mention I don't see any barbs on them. I really am not sure that those crimps are anything but holding the wire in place in the connector and they don't have any electrical function whatsoever... Oh well...
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A multimeter would be useful to ohm out each connection or wire run with a "wiggle test".
I've not needed to work on these connector types once assembled. Not sure what they are called. They came with a plastic assembly tool to press all connections together simultaneously in a vise. Certainly seems like a potential for failure. I'm finding difficult to encourage someone to rip one apart without knowing exactly where the problem is or a plan B. It appears that the wire can be pried out from underneath with a pick or jeweler's driver. Not sure what type of damage this would cause.
I've not needed to work on these connector types once assembled. Not sure what they are called. They came with a plastic assembly tool to press all connections together simultaneously in a vise. Certainly seems like a potential for failure. I'm finding difficult to encourage someone to rip one apart without knowing exactly where the problem is or a plan B. It appears that the wire can be pried out from underneath with a pick or jeweler's driver. Not sure what type of damage this would cause.
Thanks to everyone who has given their input here. I may have to take another look at that connector. But for now at least I know the source of the issue and I can push down on the connector when needed. At least I have been able to pretty much get the door up and down when needed. If I could get the individual wires out of the connector that would help a lot in diagnosing the issue. And also that way I could see exactly how the whole thing is assembled. Not sure if I will be able to do that but you never know. It's worth a try at least as long as I don't make things worse in doing so...
I have a vested interest in what these connectors are called and did more research. These are AMP or TE " MTA series " connectors.
The ideal situation is to snip it off and press the wires into a new connector. We will need to identify the pin spacing(pitch), wire gauge, and conductor count to find the exact part.
You can attempt to re-tension the female pin barrels with tiny tools while they are still seated in the connector. Of course there could be fouling between the terminal and wire as well.
The ideal situation is to snip it off and press the wires into a new connector. We will need to identify the pin spacing(pitch), wire gauge, and conductor count to find the exact part.
You can attempt to re-tension the female pin barrels with tiny tools while they are still seated in the connector. Of course there could be fouling between the terminal and wire as well.
Thanks for the post and thanks to the moderators for not deleting this post. I originally posted here because I thought that my soldering skills had solved a problem. But that was not the case. My soldering skills are decent for sure and when I do it I take the time to do it right. But alas it seems that it is a board or connector issue at this point in time. And when I looked at that connector today I realized that there were plastic "tabs" on each side of the wire that hold it in place. So the wire was inserted from the side and can not be removed without somehow using a dremel tool to remove those small tabs. Just don't know if it really is worth it when $400 will get me a brand new unit. Or I can simply keep manipulating the board and/or connector to make it work. At least I can get it up and down on a regular basis. And sometimes it does it without the assist.
Here's to poor design and I think that @grey is right about those connectors. That looks like the right one and when I Googled it I found a supplier in China that makes them. Oh well... The best option would probably be to direct solder the wires to the pins on the board. But I'm just not sure that I want to go to all that trouble and how difficult it would be. I would have to get a ladder, cut the wires from the connector and then find a way to solder while on said ladder. Would it work? I don't know because today just touching that connector no longer seemed to work and when I touched a different connector the light came on (which usually signals that it is working)...$400 gets me a brand new unit installed. Probably worth it. Until then I will just keep on doing what I know works. And maybe the cold weather will help. We will see...
The board could be pulled out again but that is not so easy. One has to use a needle nose pliers to get the plastic pins to release from the board. And that is a bit difficult just because of how everything is laid out. I think later models probably had easier access. And if I get it out and don't find any cracked solder joints on the board then I am right back to the issue of the connectors. So it seems that I may be at the end of the road and spending $400 might be the way to go. Much like when a piece of audio equipment just isn't worth the effort anymore. Sometimes it is best just to move on...