Rasputin47
Woad
That is very tidy work!
BTW do you have a digikey number for the diff pairs that you used?
BTW do you have a digikey number for the diff pairs that you used?
My try at a Really Nice Rebuild Marantz 2245 2270
- Thread starter patfont
- Start date
Digikey has no stock on that one, just Mouser.
I have to say it... seems like everyone liked the rebuild; but, since everyone already 'loves' the sonics of the 2245, you didn't get the same 'WOW' effect, you did from the very modest Model 2220B. I know the cost to buy a 2270 worth spending that much time on would likely have cost you a couple extra hundred bucks; but I can't help thinking you would have gotten a much greater 'WOW' than you did restoring a 2245.
IMHO, because the 2270 runs hotter, and in my experience, was often purchased originally by those buyers who knew they wanted to listen at higher volume levels, and generally bought bigger, more demanding speaker systems, the 2270 often reached the point of needing a recap sooner than its smaller brother, the 2245. I suspect, because of the greater demands placed on the 2270 during its lifetime, there are more than a few who are unhappy with the sonic qualities of their un-refurbed 2270, and don't mind telling us about it from time to time. I have to say, myself, I have experienced some really 'muddy' bass on the ocasional 2270, when still running with its original oem electrolytic caps.
Anyway, I had hoped that many of the 2270 detractors might have been persuaded to give the 2270 a second, more thorough consideration...
Oh well...
IMHO, because the 2270 runs hotter, and in my experience, was often purchased originally by those buyers who knew they wanted to listen at higher volume levels, and generally bought bigger, more demanding speaker systems, the 2270 often reached the point of needing a recap sooner than its smaller brother, the 2245. I suspect, because of the greater demands placed on the 2270 during its lifetime, there are more than a few who are unhappy with the sonic qualities of their un-refurbed 2270, and don't mind telling us about it from time to time. I have to say, myself, I have experienced some really 'muddy' bass on the ocasional 2270, when still running with its original oem electrolytic caps.
Anyway, I had hoped that many of the 2270 detractors might have been persuaded to give the 2270 a second, more thorough consideration...
Oh well...
I would venture to say that the 2245/2270 share some sonic signitures as both are pretty close build wise. I will say one thing about the 2245, I can in reality in a medium sized room listen as insanely loud as I would want and is sensible. The low bass response in my room leaves nothing to be desired. On Peter Gabriel "Lay You Hands On Me" the final drum roll and punch at the end of the song is very amazing in the low bass department. The bass on my 2245 is no way wooly.
I will be adding final thoughts to my rebuild in about a month, as I have made a few minor changes as all has burnt in. The changes are 1 location on the Preamp Board and 1 location on the Phono Board that will have 2 options. Stay Tuned!
ok, so after quite some time here is the final version of the Preamp Board. No surprises here, easy to duplicate and parts readily available form Digikey or Mouser. Nice smooth listenable music coming off of this board!
The Phono board is another story and will still be awhile.............
The Phono board is another story and will still be awhile.............
Baseballhack
Active Member
Do you have the mouser part number for those diff pairs? Great thread so much info, very meticulous in your approach definitely turned it into a science.
There may be only so far you can go with a vintage Marantz Receiver, but I am all about any improvements available. I did own a Marantz integrated that had all 1% metal films on the Preamp Board and it was sounding to my ears very clinical and it could not be brought back with many tweeks tried. I think you have to be careful once you get to this level of upgrades. I am however very curious for example to take a targeted approach to it. For example: Marantz 2245 look at the schematic for the Phono Board (P700) trace the inputs past J701 and J703 first you hit C701 and C702 caps and then R703 and R704, I may venture to only replace R703 and R704 on this board and that is all on that board.
Last edited:
69sixpackbee
Well-Known Member
Hey, Pat, wanna tackle my 4400 next??? 
The only board that I replaced e-caps with films was on the Preamp Board:
C407, C408, C410 and C411 and I used Wima MKS2 3.3uf 50V and this has been documented as the go to cap many times here on AK.
C403, C404, C414 and C415 and I used Panasonic ECW 1uf 250V
If you want bypass the above with these:
Panasonic ECW .1uf 250V-these need to be soldered to the 1uf and then the legs get heat shrink.
The other films I installed were just swapped out for the original films.
ok so I have jettisoned the outboard caps on the phono board and replaced them with the Panasonic ECW. I wanted this to be a Really nice rebuild which to me now would mean the caps should all fit pretty nice and be directly on the boards for reliability and longevity.
This will conclude what will be the standard-bearer for the Marantz 2245/2270.
And to my ears it sounds wonderful!
For those of you who can not or will not leave well enough alone (includes me) we will be looking at 3 locations where you can "Kick It Up a Notch"
These 3 locations are the places on the Amp, Pre and Phono board where a cap change can to my ears be heard and appreciated.
Some would call it tube rolling, cap rolling or personal engineering tweeks. Here is where you can add/subtract certain elements of the music to fit your needs. It could be related to the speakers you are running, your room acoustics or the other equipment in the chain-or just personal preferences.
To those of you not interested in this kind of thing I respect that also.
Here are the locations:
Oh by the way I forgot to mention, I removed the bypass caps from the back of the 1840's and put them back in and they are a lot better, that moved the Panasonic ECW from that location.
I have in house and on order the canidates for these locations and some bypass caps, and so will be taking some time playing with these 3 locations. The caps I will be using are what I have found by searching the internet for nice sounding budget film capacitors. I am thinking there really are none I will use over 5 bucks each but they will be good. Again as mentioned earlier the stock films are fine. I will listen to the caps and then give my impressions in case there are others that would like to try.
This will conclude what will be the standard-bearer for the Marantz 2245/2270.
And to my ears it sounds wonderful!
For those of you who can not or will not leave well enough alone (includes me) we will be looking at 3 locations where you can "Kick It Up a Notch"
These 3 locations are the places on the Amp, Pre and Phono board where a cap change can to my ears be heard and appreciated.
Some would call it tube rolling, cap rolling or personal engineering tweeks. Here is where you can add/subtract certain elements of the music to fit your needs. It could be related to the speakers you are running, your room acoustics or the other equipment in the chain-or just personal preferences.
To those of you not interested in this kind of thing I respect that also.
Here are the locations:
Oh by the way I forgot to mention, I removed the bypass caps from the back of the 1840's and put them back in and they are a lot better, that moved the Panasonic ECW from that location.
I have in house and on order the canidates for these locations and some bypass caps, and so will be taking some time playing with these 3 locations. The caps I will be using are what I have found by searching the internet for nice sounding budget film capacitors. I am thinking there really are none I will use over 5 bucks each but they will be good. Again as mentioned earlier the stock films are fine. I will listen to the caps and then give my impressions in case there are others that would like to try.
Last edited:
So here is what I will be shooting out for the "Kick It Up" location on the Phono Board. Again not alot of money to be spent, but in this location alot of bang for the buck.
Speaking of bang for the buck, in the past I have installed in my 2220B some moderatly expensive film caps (pretty much as an experiment):
Mundorf Supreme
Auricaps
Relcap RT
Relcap PCU
Relcap TFT
Mundorf MKP
.......and you can go to post #16 in this thread to see some of the other films I have listened to.
Well you do not have to spend alot of $$$$$$$ to get that high end sound here are some solutions that I am in the process of listening to now.
When I am through I will go over each of these 4 choices and what they are good at and when/how to use them.
Here we go in order of pricing:
1. at 69 cents this is the least you should be using
Panasonic ECW
2. at 3.61 you may be very surprised
Nichicon ES with a Sonicap Gen II bypass
3. at 5.24 and this is high end?
Sonicap Gen I
4. at 7.21 and this can add up because you need 2
Solen PB-MKP-FC with Vitamin Q bypass
*******pic will be coming.
In order to be considered I really did not want to spend more then 5 bucks per cap, hopefully less. Also it had to fit the location and be easily available. I only considered the Vitamin Q bypass because they are usually available on ebay but we will see if it is even worth it.
Speaking of bang for the buck, in the past I have installed in my 2220B some moderatly expensive film caps (pretty much as an experiment):
Mundorf Supreme
Auricaps
Relcap RT
Relcap PCU
Relcap TFT
Mundorf MKP
.......and you can go to post #16 in this thread to see some of the other films I have listened to.
Well you do not have to spend alot of $$$$$$$ to get that high end sound here are some solutions that I am in the process of listening to now.
When I am through I will go over each of these 4 choices and what they are good at and when/how to use them.
Here we go in order of pricing:
1. at 69 cents this is the least you should be using
Panasonic ECW
2. at 3.61 you may be very surprised
Nichicon ES with a Sonicap Gen II bypass
3. at 5.24 and this is high end?
Sonicap Gen I
4. at 7.21 and this can add up because you need 2
Solen PB-MKP-FC with Vitamin Q bypass
*******pic will be coming.
In order to be considered I really did not want to spend more then 5 bucks per cap, hopefully less. Also it had to fit the location and be easily available. I only considered the Vitamin Q bypass because they are usually available on ebay but we will see if it is even worth it.
Last edited:
This is the part of the build that I love...
Yes, let's bump it up!
To get this kind of performance in a NEW piece of quality Audio Equipment can cost an arm and a leg. When you consider the improvements that can be realized by just substituting Audio Grade caps and resistors, it's hard to justify going through the trouble of a rebuild and using mediocre sounding caps. The cash savings is minimal, yet the loss in sound quality can be vast.
Anyone think Marantz wouldn't have used these caps if they had been available, back in the day???
... at least in the early 70s, before the recession beginning in the mid 70s. Then, unfortunately, the accountants trumped the engineering dept.
Yes, let's bump it up!
To get this kind of performance in a NEW piece of quality Audio Equipment can cost an arm and a leg. When you consider the improvements that can be realized by just substituting Audio Grade caps and resistors, it's hard to justify going through the trouble of a rebuild and using mediocre sounding caps. The cash savings is minimal, yet the loss in sound quality can be vast.
Anyone think Marantz wouldn't have used these caps if they had been available, back in the day???
... at least in the early 70s, before the recession beginning in the mid 70s. Then, unfortunately, the accountants trumped the engineering dept.
Last edited:
Here is the Solen PB-MKP-FC with the Vitamin Q:
I am almost hoping it is not amazing because although it easily fits in my listening jig, it will not be the perfect install to get it on the board. I am actually kind of ruling it out already, but if it knocks me out I may change my mind, we will see.
I am almost hoping it is not amazing because although it easily fits in my listening jig, it will not be the perfect install to get it on the board. I am actually kind of ruling it out already, but if it knocks me out I may change my mind, we will see.
The 1st location is taken:
ok so I splurged a little bit and went with the Sonicap Gen. I on the Amplifier Boards. They are 5.24 each.
*******These are a "sonic" bargain, after listening to many many films both costly and inexpensive these are the closest you can get to "no capacitor." (with out spending crazy money!) They are very flat and accurate to the extent that many may not like them, there is basically no coloration, and that is what I want in an amplifier board. There is no boom or sizzle here, after installing these the music just sounds relaxed and natural. They were installed 1 on each Amp Board in location C751.
Use these if you value a complete natural and uncolored sound. (To some this could mean boring, but there is no listening fatigue.)
ok so I splurged a little bit and went with the Sonicap Gen. I on the Amplifier Boards. They are 5.24 each.
*******These are a "sonic" bargain, after listening to many many films both costly and inexpensive these are the closest you can get to "no capacitor." (with out spending crazy money!) They are very flat and accurate to the extent that many may not like them, there is basically no coloration, and that is what I want in an amplifier board. There is no boom or sizzle here, after installing these the music just sounds relaxed and natural. They were installed 1 on each Amp Board in location C751.
Use these if you value a complete natural and uncolored sound. (To some this could mean boring, but there is no listening fatigue.)
Last edited: