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Need help - finally ready for a TT!

Peter_Klim

Well-Known Member
***UPDATE: I ordered the Clearaudio. Now I need a preamp*****
***PS Audio GCPH Phonostage or Musical Surroundings - NOVA PHONOMENA****

I need a TT that will compliment my system and sound better than my Jolida JD100A CDP.

My integrated amp is a Prima Luna Prologue One and the speakers are Martin Logan ReQuests.

I'm highly considering these 2 models:

Clearaudio Emotion CMB Turntable w/ Satisfy and Maestro
Clearaudio

Pro-Ject RM9.1 Turntable (with either Blue Point Special or Blackbird cart)
Pro-Ject

Any thoughts? Any other suggestions for a complete system at around $2K?
And I have absolutely no idea what preamp to get, so help in that area would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Pete
 
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The Clearaudio path would be a brighter sounding table/cart combo, whilst the Pro-Ject/Sumiko combo (the blackbird would be the obvious choice) would be a warmer Depends on what kinda sound your looking for I guess. As far as a pre, what would be you budget for one? Suggestions would very quite a bit depending on the price limit.
 
The Clearaudio path would be a brighter sounding table/cart combo, whilst the Pro-Ject/Sumiko combo (the blackbird would be the obvious choice) would be a warmer Depends on what kinda sound your looking for I guess. As far as a pre, what would be you budget for one? Suggestions would very quite a bit depending on the price limit.

Thanks for your input.

I was thinking of the Jolida preamp. Goes for around $450.

I don't know how much to spend. I do know I want to spend whatever it takes to make it sound at least a bit better than my CDP. I would be very happy if I could do it for under $500.
 
Your out of my league......but with that said I would post what area your from and you will get more responses...In fact one of our group will probably personally assist you in making a more informed decision.I would spend more on the preamp and buy a less expensive TT!
 
Your out of my league......but with that said I would post what area your from and you will get more responses...In fact one of our group will probably personally assist you in making a more informed decision.I would spend more on the preamp and buy a less expensive TT!

So how much would I have to spend on a pre-amp in order to make it worth purchasing one of those TTs?
 
I gather you would like to engage modern off the shelf plug and play. Indeed some recourse to manufacturer warranty considering the budget you can exercise would be wise. However, that budget also allows you to entertain some suggestions of rebuilt high end vintage equipment. There are so many out there that it would be a shame not consider them. One example: the Thorens 125 MarkII possibly one of the finest belt drives ever made. Perhaps more knowledged members might speak to that regard. In the examples you posted; have you started a thread at audiogon?

Btw, that Jolida is no slouch as I'm sure you know. Good luck and please give us a review of your ultimate decision.
 
I would not worry about the capabilities of the Jolida JD9A and either of the tables...but, after having worked with both of the tables the Clearaudio is my favorite of the two mainly because of the mag-lev bearing and the true value of the package with cartridge....a local fellow bought the one I set up and I have had a chance to listen to it in his system and that is one sweet table! Simple, clean, and with the cartridge and tonearm, just a magnificent combination....

If you aren't going to buy locally, shop around and talk to authorized dealers and you'll be able to cut the package price down considerably from what you see advertised on places like Jerry Raskin's...you'll also be able to talk to them and get more of an informed opinion on what works well together...yep, I know this first hand...

I really like the JD9A, yet the little Clearaudio Nano is another great little preamp, ours neatly outperformed the built in phono stage on a new $4K Esoteric AI-10 integrated, so that's another contender to consider...but if I were to choose I really feel like the JD9A is the one I would go for and upgrade it later as I moved along, I'm just a tubular kind of guy at heart....

Again, I suggest that if you do not have a local dealer, find yourself an online dealer that will talk to you and make you a package deal...

But, I have to ask you, what kind of sonic problems are you having with your Jolida JD100A? That's a pretty great sounding unit...perhaps the Prima Luna is not a good match for the ReQuests? I would really tend towards that thought...reading Art Dudley's review of the Prima Luna and with my own experiences with my Aerius-i's tend to make me think that the ReQuests and Prologue One might not be a match made in heaven...maybe with cone and dome or single driver speakers, but the ReQuests are large and, in my opinion, need a bit more "horsepower" and control than the 24 watts at 4 ohms that Stereophile measured this amp as delivering...looking at the measurements also makes me think that the Prima Luna's reduced output at low impedance, such as what occurs in the upper treble with Martin Logans, might lead to a lack of transparency...

The ReQuests also need room to breathe and in a room large enough to do them justice I again think that the Prima Luna just can't deliver what those speakers need....if you have them in too small a room, then they will also suffer...for instance, I once brought home a set of SL-3's and put them in place of my Aerius-i's...they absolutely did not work in my 14' X 12' den, where the smaller Aerius' worked just fine...and this was driven by either a pair of BEL 1001 MkIII's or a pair of Pass Labs Aleph monoblocks...much, much more power than your Prologue can deliver, 200 watts for the BEL's and 100 watts pure class A for the Pass', but still trying even the Aerius with my VTA-70i equipped with Magnequest transformers, which is very similar to your Prima Luna in output capability, leads me to just about prefer my Bryston 2B to the tubes..but, power cords on the amp and speakers can also alter the sound...I recently brought home one of the new Bryston 4Bsst2 amps from my part time job and used it with my Aerius and really, really liked the sound...no way was the output from a pair of EL34's ever going to do that....not even 6550's or KT-88's either...

So, again, I really have to wonder about the Prologue one and the ReQuests as being a decent pairing...low power amps, like the Prologue, tend to work better with higher efficiency speakers with a flatter impedance curve, and the ReQuests need to be in an adequately sized room to exhibit their best performance...in a room of that size an amp of the low power output of the Prologue One might just not deliver the goods...

I do like vacuum tube preamps with ML's but to get enough power for them usually takes solid state or enough tubes to really warm up the house, and South Texas is some place where you do not need the extra heat!

But hey, it might work fine for you...but I can only imagine that with commensurate electronics that the ReQuests would really sing...
 
For that budget you're almost in VPI-land. :scratch2:

Yes, I saw some on Audiogon and a B-stock (demo) at MusicDirect for $1400 that only needs the cartridge:

VPI Scout

But even so, if I were to get the same cart that the Clearaudio comes with, the unit jumps up to $2400. $400 more than the CA. Plus this kinda turned me off: "These turntables may have a very small cosmetic blemish on the plinth or tonearm." I see TT not only as music players, but beautiful works of art. Sh*t, women spend (or rather us me spend on them) thousands on a small diamond ring, people spend hundreds of thousands on paintings that do nothing but hang on a wall (no offense), so why not spend a small fraction on a beautiful piece of unscarred work of art that IS functional! :)

But yeah, the VPI is nice. But, I'm already doubling my budget compared to what I told myself it would be a couple of days ago (which was again, double what I told myself a few months ago! LOL!)
 
I gather you would like to engage modern off the shelf plug and play. Indeed some recourse to manufacturer warranty considering the budget you can exercise would be wise. However, that budget also allows you to entertain some suggestions of rebuilt high end vintage equipment. There are so many out there that it would be a shame not consider them. One example: the Thorens 125 MarkII possibly one of the finest belt drives ever made. Perhaps more knowledged members might speak to that regard. In the examples you posted; have you started a thread at audiogon?

Btw, that Jolida is no slouch as I'm sure you know. Good luck and please give us a review of your ultimate decision.

Yes, I have considered used units. Including that Thorens being sold locally by a member of the Martin Logan forum I belong too. I just have a hard time spend that much money on a TT that was made when I was 2 years old ;) It is nice though.

Plus I would rather spend it on newer technology/design.

I plan to start a thread on gon soon, now that I've spend nights into the sunset researching and narrowing down to my main 2 choices.

Yeah, I heard the Jolida is quite a bargain!

Thanks on the advice!
 
Hi Rick, I have no issues with my system. I'm quite happy with the performance of the Jolida and PrimaLuna. My ears hurt (and my ear drum flutters the next day) after playing music too loud now-a-days (since I hit 35, I'm 40 now). So I hardly ever turn the volume past 9 o'clock. Yes, if I were 34 again, there would be a much more powerful amp for the ReQuests!!!

I may have not made it clear in my first post, but the reason I would like a TT that sounds at least a bit better than my CDP is that I don't want to end up spending a lot of money (and for me, $2K is!) on a TT that doesn't make an improvement (at least for some recordings). If $2k won't, but a few hundred $$ will, then I would have to spend the extra to get it. Maybe I would have to spend another grand? I would hate to spend $2K and be disappointed and then have to upgrade right away, while taking a hit on reselling/returning my unit at a lower price than what I purchased it at. Sorry if I confused you or anyone else.

Do you think I could achieve a better sound with one of these units over my CDP? And then if so, would using the Jolida or Clearaudio pre you mentioned still make it possible?

Thanks for your detailed reply!




I would not worry about the capabilities of the Jolida JD9A and either of the tables...but, after having worked with both of the tables the Clearaudio is my favorite of the two mainly because of the mag-lev bearing and the true value of the package with cartridge....a local fellow bought the one I set up and I have had a chance to listen to it in his system and that is one sweet table! Simple, clean, and with the cartridge and tonearm, just a magnificent combination....

If you aren't going to buy locally, shop around and talk to authorized dealers and you'll be able to cut the package price down considerably from what you see advertised on places like Jerry Raskin's...you'll also be able to talk to them and get more of an informed opinion on what works well together...yep, I know this first hand...

I really like the JD9A, yet the little Clearaudio Nano is another great little preamp, ours neatly outperformed the built in phono stage on a new $4K Esoteric AI-10 integrated, so that's another contender to consider...but if I were to choose I really feel like the JD9A is the one I would go for and upgrade it later as I moved along, I'm just a tubular kind of guy at heart....

Again, I suggest that if you do not have a local dealer, find yourself an online dealer that will talk to you and make you a package deal...

But, I have to ask you, what kind of sonic problems are you having with your Jolida JD100A? That's a pretty great sounding unit...perhaps the Prima Luna is not a good match for the ReQuests? I would really tend towards that thought...reading Art Dudley's review of the Prima Luna and with my own experiences with my Aerius-i's tend to make me think that the ReQuests and Prologue One might not be a match made in heaven...maybe with cone and dome or single driver speakers, but the ReQuests are large and, in my opinion, need a bit more "horsepower" and control than the 24 watts at 4 ohms that Stereophile measured this amp as delivering...looking at the measurements also makes me think that the Prima Luna's reduced output at low impedance, such as what occurs in the upper treble with Martin Logans, might lead to a lack of transparency...

The ReQuests also need room to breathe and in a room large enough to do them justice I again think that the Prima Luna just can't deliver what those speakers need....if you have them in too small a room, then they will also suffer...for instance, I once brought home a set of SL-3's and put them in place of my Aerius-i's...they absolutely did not work in my 14' X 12' den, where the smaller Aerius' worked just fine...and this was driven by either a pair of BEL 1001 MkIII's or a pair of Pass Labs Aleph monoblocks...much, much more power than your Prologue can deliver, 200 watts for the BEL's and 100 watts pure class A for the Pass', but still trying even the Aerius with my VTA-70i equipped with Magnequest transformers, which is very similar to your Prima Luna in output capability, leads me to just about prefer my Bryston 2B to the tubes..but, power cords on the amp and speakers can also alter the sound...I recently brought home one of the new Bryston 4Bsst2 amps from my part time job and used it with my Aerius and really, really liked the sound...no way was the output from a pair of EL34's ever going to do that....not even 6550's or KT-88's either...

So, again, I really have to wonder about the Prologue one and the ReQuests as being a decent pairing...low power amps, like the Prologue, tend to work better with higher efficiency speakers with a flatter impedance curve, and the ReQuests need to be in an adequately sized room to exhibit their best performance...in a room of that size an amp of the low power output of the Prologue One might just not deliver the goods...

I do like vacuum tube preamps with ML's but to get enough power for them usually takes solid state or enough tubes to really warm up the house, and South Texas is some place where you do not need the extra heat!

But hey, it might work fine for you...but I can only imagine that with commensurate electronics that the ReQuests would really sing...
 
LOL! I was trying to find your message ;)

I do have links to the TTs in the first post and then a VPI link later on. they all have pics ;)

In case you were asking about my system...

...I know, I need to clean up the cables, and move the TV out from between the speakers. Before it was on the floor but my feet were in the way when I reclined on the couch. Bought a tv stand and that ruined my imaging. I love the Sony HD CRT TV, but I love music even more. So soon I'll get a plasma to hang on the wall.
 

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Playing in that league, the TT is very quiet and the arm is capable of getting the most of cartridges up to the many thousands range. I would not put a phono stage in the sequence that introduced ANY noise. I'd be looking at something like the Nove Phenomina and running it on DC (batteries), or better. I know tubes are cool (no pun intended), but they can make noise as a by product of heat in high gain environment. You are very likely going to run a low output moving coil with a very weak signal and gain of 40 or better. Just my $.02 :)

And for that kind of money, you are in the range of a Yamaha GT1000 to GT2000 if you ever entertain the idea of direct drive?
 
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Playing in that league, the TT is very quite and the arm is capable of getting the most of cartridges up to a many thousands range. I would not put a phono stage in the sequence that introduced ANY noise. I'd be looking at something like the Nove Phenomina and running it on DC (batteries), or better. I know tubes are cool (no pun intended), but they can make noise as a by product of heat in high gain environment. You are very likely going to run a low output moving coil with a very weak signal and gain of 40 or better. Just my $.02 :)

And for that kind of money, you are in the range of a Yamaha GT1000 to GT2000 if you ever entertain the idea of direct drive?

If he did go for the Clearaudio, the Mastro that comes with that deal would mate very well with the Jolida, but yes if he did go LOMC the Jolida would not be a good bet.
 
Thanks BrocLuno and Tower for your replies!

I think since the Jolida is priced fairly low, if it didn't satisfy me I would search around for a better qualified unit, but purchase it second hand and then sell the Jolida (it wouldn't be that bad of a loss).

I know just because something is higher in price doesn't mean it is better (case in point with Jolida pre) so I wasn't sure how good the $1k Maestro is compared to the one with the Pro-ject (Sumiko Blackbird @ $900). Nor the Pro-ject $1800 TT vs CA $1400 TT.

Anywho...it seems from this thread that there is more interest in the Clearaudio ($2k) over the Pro-Ject ($2300). Is it a better unit at an overall lower price?
 
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