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Need help - finally ready for a TT!

Peter_Klim said:
Hi Rick, I have no issues with my system. I'm quite happy with the performance of the Jolida and PrimaLuna. My ears hurt (and my ear drum flutters the next day) after playing music too loud now-a-days (since I hit 35, I'm 40 now). So I hardly ever turn the volume past 9 o'clock. Yes, if I were 34 again, there would be a much more powerful amp for the ReQuests!!!
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My post really had nothing about volume extremes, even the 20 watts at 4 ohms that your amp can deliver can make a lot of sound, but rather about the control that a "stiffer" amp would have over the woofer and the more even frequency response that another amp with less of an output drop into the low impedance, heck, in the wildly varying impedance and the difficult load of the Martin Logans, would exhibit...this translates into a more transparent and unstrained sound...and, if you think e-stats do not like power...well, even at low volume settings powerful amps make them really sing...we have a set of Quad 2805's at my part time job powered by 1.2kW of Spectron Musician III Signature monoblocks...we do not listen loud, but the bass quality is such that we rarely turn on the JL subs as they just are not needed and the ample reserve of power anywhere in the frequency spectrum means an extremely even handed frequency response with ample reserves for dynamics, wherever in the audio range it occurs...micro dynamics are some of the best I have ever heard from planar speakers...treble extension is clean, clear and not at all distorted, which is something I can not stand at all! All this transparency and freedom from distortion gives an immensely satisfying overall presentation to the sound that leads you to many of those "oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about" moments...too bad I'll never be able to afford that gear!!!!

I only mention this because I bought my Martin Logan Aerius-i's over 12 years ago and special ordered them with the oak side rails and the bi-wiring option. I have used many, many different amplifiers on them in my experimenting, everything from flea power amps, to an Art Audio Carissa SET amp with 845's, my VTA-70i, my Bryston 2b, my former and lamented pair of 200 watts each Brown Electronics Labs 1001 MkIII monoblocks, Pass Labs Aleph 2 100w Pure Class A monoblocks, my Adcom GFA-555II, my 200+ WPC Elite M-90, and lastly the recent break in and demo of a brand spanking new Bryston 4BSST2, and I can guarantee you that the better the amp with the more control and the more even handed frequency response, the better my Aerius sounded...best were the Brystons, the 4BSST2 by a substantial margin over my venerable 2b; the Alephs were absolutely sublime and I wish I could have kept them, even more so than the 4BSST2 but they run so warm that they not only heated up my den but my next door neighbors as well and in South Texas we don't really need any help in that area; the BEL's really had nothing I could complain about and I now regret selling them; the Adcom 555-II is not very transparent or engaging and I use it for powering the subs where it does fine; and the Elite M-90 is boring, lacks soundstage and transparency and is my least favorite of all my amplifiers...

My highly tweaked VTA-70i, which should compare closely to your Prima Luna, really does not control the Aerius well enough in comparison to even the 20+ year old Bryston 2b, the Bryston has better frequency extension, just as much air and space, and sounds more relaxed yet more energetic at the same time...together the VTA-70i and the ML's sound fine...until you make a comparison with an amplifier that is really better suited to the needs of the speakers...then you understand...

And all this is in my 14 X 12 foot den with them aligned along the long wall...so, I really do not need a lot of power to play loud, and I don't, but the clarity, resolution, and freedom of distortion that the ML's have just begs for great front end gear and amplification...

Besides, at 57 now my headbanging days are behind me! But, I did see Hendrix live during Hemisfair '68, so I was an extremely hard rockin guy for many years!

Peter_Klim said:
I may have not made it clear in my first post, but the reason I would like a TT that sounds at least a bit better than my CDP is that I don't want to end up spending a lot of money (and for me, $2K is!) on a TT that doesn't make an improvement (at least for some recordings). If $2k won't, but a few hundred $$ will, then I would have to spend the extra to get it. Maybe I would have to spend another grand? I would hate to spend $2K and be disappointed and then have to upgrade right away, while taking a hit on reselling/returning my unit at a lower price than what I purchased it at. Sorry if I confused you or anyone else.

Do you think I could achieve a better sound with one of these units over my CDP? And then if so, would using the Jolida or Clearaudio pre you mentioned still make it possible?

Thanks for your detailed reply!
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It all depends on the software.

Going vinyl is not a panacea for crappy recordings, far from it, in fact, the deeper you get into it the more you find out just how variable recording quality can be and many of what might be good on a lesser system of something like an old Pioneer receiver with some old Advents or AR's will absolutely blow chunks when played on a high resolution system...sometimes coloring over everything with a diffusive glow is the only way to listen to many rock recordings, for example...I have all my vinyl from my past and have kept it in great shape...but, most of them really are not quite audiophile fodder, in fact, many are far from it...sure, some of the remasters are pretty darn good (and I have collected all the different Led Zep versions available from the MoFi days until now) but if the original recordings done at the original sessions with the musicians are crummy, then the reissues can only be as good as the original session tapes...you have to remember that the recording industry is one of greed and speed, record the "artists" as cheaply as possible, get the pressings to market as quickly as possible, make as much money of them as possible before their star fades away and you have to move on to the next new thing...

I found that the better my stereo became the less tolerance I had for sub-par recordings...which for me was great....it broke me out of the Tull-Zep-Floyd-Stones rut and made me explore Jazz and Classical in more depth....suddenly stuff that earlier made no sense or seemed boring took on a new life when the actual instruments being played sounded real...when the singer's voice sounded like a real live flesh and blood person and not just someone standing in front of a band with a million watts of noise behind them...when I could hear the vibration of a reed in a clarinet...all of a sudden music without words became my favorite stuff, girls and guitars made me melt, and I understood what Brubeck was all about...just to finally be able to hear the individual performance of each of the musicians, each of the instruments, each with their own space and time, rather than some homogenized noise absolutely thrilled me...

And that kind of music is available cheap in used record bins all across the country, at yard sales, estate sales, etc., and all one needs to really enjoy that world is a half-way decent turntable and a record cleaning machine...

Really, for the price of 30 or so new CD's you can buy yourself a VPI 16.5 and at least 30 used LP's...so what if you buy a record for a buck or two and don't care for the music? It's not the same as dropping 15 or 20 bucks on one and thinking it sucked...

So, the entry into the world of vinyl should not just be looked at as a way to a potentially superior sounding media, but also as a potential gateway into more styles of music, and a larger quantity of software all at a bargain price...

Now as to the Jolida vs. the Clearaudio phono stage, I would prefer the Jolida, but it would depend on if my system needed the solid state sound or if I thought that I needed more of that "tube goodness"...either one is going to be flat out great, but the Jolida can be tweaked and modded, the Nano not so much...here's a review on the Nano. And, one by the same online resource on the Jolida. Still, I am an unabashed tube freak, so the JD-9A gets my nod...
 
Peter_Klim said:
Yes, I saw some on Audiogon and a B-stock (demo) at MusicDirect for $1400 that only needs the cartridge:

VPI Scout

But even so, if I were to get the same cart that the Clearaudio comes with, the unit jumps up to $2400. $400 more than the CA. Plus this kinda turned me off: "These turntables may have a very small cosmetic blemish on the plinth or tonearm." I see TT not only as music players, but beautiful works of art. Sh*t, women spend (or rather us me spend on them) thousands on a small diamond ring, people spend hundreds of thousands on paintings that do nothing but hang on a wall (no offense), so why not spend a small fraction on a beautiful piece of unscarred work of art that IS functional! :)

But yeah, the VPI is nice. But, I'm already doubling my budget compared to what I told myself it would be a couple of days ago (which was again, double what I told myself a few months ago! LOL!)
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If you have a question about one of Music Direct's TTs, they're very nice people. I've dealt with them in person at their warehouse, as they're local to me, but have called them before and they've been very helpful. I got my VPI Classic as a demo/blemished unit from them and the blemish is not even noticeable from more than 6" away. If I didn't point it out, nobody would ever see it. I don't know that all their b-stock tables are that nice, but it never hurts to ask. I can't speak for any of your choices, but the VPI Classic wipes the floor with my CD players.
 
***UPDATE: I ordered the Clearaudio. Now I need a preamp*****
***PS Audio GCPH Phonostage or Musical Surroundings - NOVA PHONOMENA****

Thanks again everyone for their replies!
And yeah, THANKS Rick, now I might need to replace my PrimaLuna! :( jk But seriously, some good reading you wrote there! :) Thanks for the links to the reviews.

So, I decided to up my budget on a pre, because i really don't want to be dissapointed with it being my weekest link and then have to upgrade later.

BrocLuno,
You've brought up the Musical Surroundings before.
Maybe you (and please, anyone else) could chime in about the 2 preamps I've selected? Both cost the same, both have great reviews.
 
JohnVF said:
If you have a question about one of Music Direct's TTs, they're very nice people. I've dealt with them in person at their warehouse, as they're local to me, but have called them before and they've been very helpful. I got my VPI Classic as a demo/blemished unit from them and the blemish is not even noticeable from more than 6" away. If I didn't point it out, nobody would ever see it. I don't know that all their b-stock tables are that nice, but it never hurts to ask. I can't speak for any of your choices, but the VPI Classic wipes the floor with my CD players.
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For a little while, I was getting buyers remorse already for not getting the demo after reading your post. But then an hour later I realized it would've cost $400 more if I got it with the same cart the Clearaudio comes with. But it would have defintely been the next unit I would've moved my budget up to!
 
from this link:
PS Audio

"Overall, PS Audio’s GCPH is the most versatile and best sounding sub-$1k phonostage I’ve yet heard (though Musical Surroundings’ Phonomena II, which I’ve not yet tried, might offer competition).

It is also as quiet (if not quieter) than fine battery-powered units such as Sutherland’s excellent Ph3D. But perhaps the GCPH’s greatest strength is that it constantly reveals and reinforces the unforced beauty of analog playback in this digital age."
 
congrats on the purchase. Do all of the Clearaudio tables have the magnetic bearing? That platter spins for days if you give it a spin without the belt. Very cool.
 
JohnVF said:
congrats on the purchase. Do all of the Clearaudio tables have the magnetic bearing? That platter spins for days if you give it a spin without the belt. Very cool.
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Thanks! Maybe now i can get a little more sleep instead of researching...well once I get the preamp ;)

Yes, I think all the current models have the CMB feature. At needledoctor there are a couple of 5 figure models that might not:
Needledoctor

I purchased mine at AudioAdvisor instead. No tax nor shipping 9not sure about the Dr), plus they had it in the full frosted finish (Dr didn't).
 
Well, I called Music Direct just now. I was going to spend $3K total on TT, Cart & Pre when I ordered the Clearaudio from Audio Advisor. MD got me a $359 discount when recommending the below items that total to only $2K and he said it would sound better than if I were to get the Clearaudio system (with any of the $1k preamps I've mentioned). Why do you guys think?

DYNAVECTOR - 10X5 MC PHONO CARTRIDGE 2.5MV OUTPUT Item# ADYNA10X5

Ships By: Ships In 24 Hrs $430.00 $430.00

SIMAUDIO MOON - LP3 in BLACK Item# AMOONLP3

Ships By: Ships In 24 Hrs $499.00 $499.00

VPI - SCOUT & JMW-9 STANDARD **B-Stock** Item# AVPITTSCOUTBSTOCK

Ships By: Ships In 24 Hrs $1399.00
 
That sounds like a good deal, though I don't know if I would go with the 10x5, it would be the hold back of that system.
 
If you could squese out a bit more you could get a Benz Micro ACE, or a Dyna 20x, I think they would really be a much better cart for the high class setup you would have.
 
I would have grabbed that VPI in a minute. Then again, my wife's rings are second hand :D

I don't mind minor condition issues. Saves me some dough and the heartbreak of adding the first little dings and scratches myself.
 
Brett a said:
Why is the Scout listed as B stock? ( I ask because you said in an earlier post you didn't want something that was blemished.)

.
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I know, I am a bit concerned still. But like someone else here mentioned, unless you're told about it and you're less than 6" away, you won't notice it.

MD told me that no one has ever complained. I then asked why are there multiple B units, were they referbished? Answer was no, that something along the assembly line may have been in the way like glue or something (maybe dripping from the ceiling) and may have smudged it (not his exact words but something like that, I can't recall).

I can always return it if I'm not happy.
 
Trower said:
If you could squese out a bit more you could get a Benz Micro ACE, or a Dyna 20x, I think they would really be a much better cart for the high class setup you would have.
Click to expand...

When I call him back, I will defintely ask him to tally up the price with a better cart. right now the package is $2K. I'm still willing to go up (another $1K), and i even told him so, but like i said, he said his suggestion will sound better. He said he wants to save me some money and not rip me off. Seemed like a nice, no pressure sales guy.

I will definitely check out your recommendations when I get home. Thanks!
 
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