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Need Help w/ Ear Fatigue (JBL L3 / L5 / 035ti)

NLT

NLT

New Member
Hi Everyone,

I have been using and reading things on AK for a long time but this is my first post and I need some help.

BG:
I recently entered the world of nuanced vintage audio with the intention of improving my Mastering skills. I am an AV tech by trade and have spent the last 10 years as a touring musician. I understand sound very well and my ears are "trained" ( I do have minor minor hearing loss in both ears from a trauma incident)
I am basically speaker hunting for my mastering setup.

*Hafler & Speakercraft amps (no tone adjust)

Problem:
I purchased a set of JBL L3's and they are by far the most accurate vocal reproduction speakers (i know L5 calm down) I have heard in my short life BUT..... BUT..... I can't make it more than 10 minutes on these guys without my ears feeling like I have been at a concert for 3 hours with no ear plugs. I know there are TONS of threads about the 035ti brightness but I don't think mine are broken or have a foam issue because I enjoy the SH*T out of them for the first 5 minutes with no noticeable top end reproduction issues. After 10 minutes I stop listening to music all together.

I know I can change the crossover and I know I can swap the 035ti with a soft dome but then wtf is the point of the L3 imaging.

Anyways, I was so excited and now I feel defeated!

Do I hunt for other JBL's, crack into the crossover, get L5's or just quit life? Any advice is appreciated!!!
 
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My understanding of a ideal studio monitor is to present the sound in the most transparent way possible...Seems your JBLs are not doing that. Unless the volume levels you are using are just to high for your room.

If it were me I would audition at least a few different monitors with a reference recording. Finding the one i thought were the most transparent, uncolored, natural of the bunch. Then I would sell off the ones that bothered my ears.
 
You didn't say so I'm making assumptions: Are you using these as near-field monitors? Where are the tweeters in reference to your ears? How close?

Not to question your experience but if you think the L3 is the most accurate speaker for vocal reproduction you've ever heard, I'd like to know what you were using prior to these? As you said, your ears are trained but perhaps trained to something with rolled-off highs?

I have L5s in my TV room and listen to them for sometimes several hours over an evening with no issues. My wife hasn't complained about them, either. Nearly the same speaker in my L80Ts were a bit obnoxious until I replaced the crossovers with T3 crossovers but until then I put a piece of toilet paper over the tweeter just to see what that did. I realize that could be a $100 modification in today's TP market, but worth a try as silly as it sounds.

I have the L1, L3, L5, and L7s (a couple of each of the latter two). L3s are impressive but the least impressive of that group, including the L1s. I also have the LSR-305s which are powered monitors you might want to try if your desk is where you're putting these. You can pick up a pair used and even new for less than $200/pair nearly everywhere. Could be worth a try and they have trim pots for both HF and LF.

Good luck, and welcome!
 
The odd thing (for me) about the 035 series is the 4406s in my garage and my L1s sound great, the L5s and 4408s I had seemed to be less great.

I spent a lot of time and effort trying new tweeter cone dampeners, $$$ replacement foam, wool, cotton and nothing seemed to make much difference.

My Dahlquist M905 and a/d/s L520 and L1090/2 make me smile every time I listen to them.
 
I always had a soft spot for the L1. Made my boys each a pair out of leftover parts from years back. I've listened to them for hours on end. They were definitely a new direction for JBL voicing. The tweeters can tend towards brightness, especially with newer receivers lacking the drive of better amplifiers. That line loved beefy amplification.
 
If you think the tweeter is too hot why don't you just turn down the treble?
 
Nezpique said:
I think he said he has no tone adjustment, seems weird that the preamp doesn't have treble controls though. Maybe OP can clarify
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Hey Guys, Thank you so much for the info and opinions here. Let me clarify and maybe I can get a better answer. I know how a reference near-field monitor works, I listen to high end speakers all day, its my job! Members here do a great job with hubris.

I am looking for specific answers pertaining to the 035ti, similar JBL tweeters, and peoples experience with the speaker with NO TONE CONTROL! I am looking for resistor value swaps, board changes, or a new soft tweeter suggestion that still delivers some fidelity ( I know I have to change x-over to accommodate).

I am comparing the L3's to my KRK5 near fields(CRAP) and Equator D5 (less crap). I AM NOT listening to the L3 as a near field speaker. I have them positioned in a 6' triangle with no wall behind either speaker and a full range for the cone. These ARE NOT THE BEST speakers I have ever heard, they ARE THE BEST that I currently own and have access to work on.

I would like to mix and master on a professional level, this means tissue paper is not valid for me.

To the gentleman suggesting I just get a different speaker. YES I'm aware of this. I am trying to identify if the entire line of JBL is going to give me an issue as my JBL 62Ts, which are voiced much warmer, give me the same problem after about 20 minutes.
 
In all my years of various speakers, I have only found two models that gave me the same ear fatigue experience you describe, JBL L20T and ADS L400.

The JBL’s were new at the time, so this was not an issue with old caps, etc. I spent an entire weekend trying everything I could to change it, but nothing worked, after a short time, my ears ached.

My advice, find another model, don’t waste time trying to “fix” something that isn’t broken. The majority of other speakers out there, even from JBL and ADS will not cause it, easier to change speakers, not so your ears.
 
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The crossover point is one thing to consider.

The 4412 Studio Monitors use the 035Ti. They are crossed over to the mid at 4.5Khz, meaning the Tweeter only has to handle frequencies above that.

The JBL L100T uses an 035Ti, it is crossed over at 4.5Khz also.
The JBL L5 uses an 035Ti, it is crossed over at 4Khz.
The JBL L3 uses an 035Ti, it is crossed over at 3Khz.

So in the case of the L3, it's asking the 035Ti to reach much lower than it would in something like the L5 or 4412. And then at 3Khz, the 035Ti is transitioning to an 8" woofer. The L1 has it's crossover at 3Khz also, but then transitions over to a 6.5" woofer. With the L3 you have something of a gap, the upper-midrange partially covered by a titanium-dome tweeter that is being asked to reach lower than it probably should, and then an 8" woofer reaching higher than it probably should. Also people are more likely to play an L3 louder than they would with something like an L1, as that 8" woofer is pretty nice IMO.

I don't mind the 035Ti. It's a good tweeter and many of the speakers that I have use it, but asking it to reach down to 3Khz is less than ideal. Consider that the L5 uses the same tweeter and the same woofer as the L3, but then also has not one but two extra drivers (6.5" mid-bass woofer and 5" midrange) in between them to help fill that gap.
 
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Have you worked with the toe-in? Perhaps you need to hear the tweeters more off axis.

JBL 075/2402s are like that. If not used to hearing them, first they sound great, then with some real/extended listening they will split your ears. But they are much smoother and loose their peak at ~10 degrees off axis.
 
The later version of the 035Ti/A is the 052Ti which replaced the 035Ti in the 4412 and others in that series when it went to the 4412A. I have a pair of the 4434A and neither that, nor my L5s, bother my ears.

You don't tell us where you live (in your location field) or someone here might be able to offer some alternatives to give a try. Or some L5s just to see how they do in the same room/situation. I'm sure an EE can prescribe a resistor mod (I'm certainly not that person!) but why not try an EQ or different pre-amp? Are you committed to what you have as your baseline?
 
try some shag
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NLT said:
Hey Guys, Thank you so much for the info and opinions here. Let me clarify and maybe I can get a better answer. I know how a reference near-field monitor works, I listen to high end speakers all day, its my job! Members here do a great job with hubris.

I am looking for specific answers pertaining to the 035ti, similar JBL tweeters, and peoples experience with the speaker with NO TONE CONTROL! I am looking for resistor value swaps, board changes, or a new soft tweeter suggestion that still delivers some fidelity ( I know I have to change x-over to accommodate).

I am comparing the L3's to my KRK5 near fields(CRAP) and Equator D5 (less crap). I AM NOT listening to the L3 as a near field speaker. I have them positioned in a 6' triangle with no wall behind either speaker and a full range for the cone. These ARE NOT THE BEST speakers I have ever heard, they ARE THE BEST that I currently own and have access to work on.

I would like to mix and master on a professional level, this means tissue paper is not valid for me.

To the gentleman suggesting I just get a different speaker. YES I'm aware of this. I am trying to identify if the entire line of JBL is going to give me an issue as my JBL 62Ts, which are voiced much warmer, give me the same problem after about 20 minutes.
Click to expand...
Reach out to AK member Gordonw. He’s a master on crossovers, and stuff.
 
IMHO

If you're doing mastering professionally you need an accurate representation of the sound from the mix. If they aren't presenting that, you need to shop for better tools.
 
Beatnik said:
IMHO

If you're doing mastering professionally you need an accurate representation of the sound from the mix. If they aren't presenting that, you need to shop for better tools.
Click to expand...

You are totally right Beatnik! However today I got to the bottom of this problem in a very scientific way. It did not make sense to me that I could not deal with such a sought after tweeter given my level of enjoyment of audio etc.

I went to my audiologist and had a test in the normal human hearing range and a test performed above that range. It turns out I can hear up to 16khz with no decibel drop and past 19khz. This means that I am incredibly sensitive to high end reproduction and I legitimately may not be able to listen to JBL's without a crossover component swap to alter the range that the tweeter starts to curve off.

It was suggested to me that I use exposure training to slowly build up my sensitivity level. I may try this as it was recommended by my doctor and there is research on this method.

Im also now the guy who is going to **** a lot of speakers up trying to find MY sound. SORRY PURISTS!
 
BMWCCA said:
The later version of the 035Ti/A is the 052Ti which replaced the 035Ti in the 4412 and others in that series when it went to the 4412A. I have a pair of the 4434A and neither that, nor my L5s, bother my ears.

You don't tell us where you live (in your location field) or someone here might be able to offer some alternatives to give a try. Or some L5s just to see how they do in the same room/situation. I'm sure an EE can prescribe a resistor mod (I'm certainly not that person!) but why not try an EQ or different pre-amp? Are you committed to what you have as your baseline?
Click to expand...

Im in LA/OC California. Im definitely swapping amps, but not that interested in an EQ unless i can literally freeze the EQ in the exact same spot digitally so every time I listen its EXACTLY the same. Also see my discovery today. ^
 
Run some FR tests. If the tweeter is too bright, it will show. Add an adjustable L-pad to the tweeter, then dial it in.
 
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