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Need Help w/ Ear Fatigue (JBL L3 / L5 / 035ti)

Let me share a recent experience I had and maybe there will be a nugget in there for your...because I see some similarities between your scenario and the one I recently created.

Back in the winter I set up a listening space in my son's vacant bedroom (he was off for his first year at college) just to see what it was like to try to build a critical listening rig in a small room (12x12) that is furnished like a typical bedroom. First thing I discovered was that even with typical furnishings (bed, dresser, shelves with knick knacks, full length curtain over window, carpeted floor), I did not have the room's acoustics under control and fidelity from anything and everything I tried in there suffered (I have multiple amps, preamps and speakers sitting around to mix and match... which I did). The bedroom's acoustic profile looks very similar to the picture you shared of your bedroom and living room. I put up a few absorption panels to kill early reflection locations and ensure I had no two opposing walls that were reflective. Hand clap test before treatments...flutter echo. Hand clap test after a few treatments...slight flutter echo. Hand clap test after treatments on walls...zero flutter echo. And the music sounded better...much better..regardless of if the speakers were DCM TF-600's, Dynaco A25's, JBL Studio 530's or Klipsch RB-5ii. You may have discovered there are particular speaker models that you don't like in your room(s) and others that you do....so yeah, it's possible for you to do nothing about the acoustic profile in your room(s) and be satisfied by something. But you also talk a lot about wanting to hear things accurately...as they're intended in the recording, and that it's important to you that you create the experience of listening to the music as if you're in a mastering lab. Well brother, you'll never get there if you don't don't do something to improve what I'm seeing going on acoustically in both of those rooms. So there's that. Ignore it at your peril.

Michael
 
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Let me share a recent experience I had and maybe there will be a nugget in there for your...because I see some similarities between your scenario and the one I recently created.

Back in the winter I set up a listening space in my son's vacant bedroom (he was off for his first year at college) just to see what it was like to try to build a critical listening rig in a small room (12x12) that is furnished like a typical bedroom. First thing I discovered was that even with typical furnishings (bed, dresser, shelves with knick knacks, full length curtain over window, carpeted floor), I did not have the room's acoustics under control and fidelity from anything and everything I tried in there suffered (I have multiple amps, preamps and speakers sitting around to mix and match... which I did). The bedroom's acoustic profile looks very similar to the picture you shared of your bedroom and living room. I put up a few absorption panels to kill early reflection locations and ensure I had no two opposing walls that were reflective. Hand clap test before treatments...flutter echo. Hand clap test after a few treatments...slight flutter echo. Hand clap test after treatments on walls...zero flutter echo. And the music sounded better...much better..regardless of if the speakers were DCM TF-600's, Dynaco A25's, JBL Studio 530's or Klipsch RB-5ii. You may have discovered there are particular speaker models that you don't like in your room(s) and others that you do....so yeah, it's possible for you to do nothing about the acoustic profile in your room(s) and be satisfied by something. But you also talk a lot about wanting to hear things accurately...as they're intended in the recording, and that it's important to you that you create the experience of listening to the music as if you're in a mastering lab. Well brother, you'll never get there if you don't don't do something to improve what I'm seeing going on acoustically in both of those rooms. So there's that. Ignore it at your peril.

Michael

Michael,

This is definitely my next steps, and I have already started designing the space and how I will transform it.

I think these changes will drastically improve my ability to listen and develop speakers. However, the ear fatigue and dislike of the JBL's I have is not due to room setup. This as stated before is a direct result of the spike in 17-20khz that you see in titanium tweeters. I have done nothing but research this issue for the last 2 weeks and it is apparent to me that this is due to titanium. I have been on the YG Acoustic page reading all about how they solved this issue with 8 years of tweeter development and CNC precision.

I just refuse to believe that people actually prefer to hear that spike.

I also do not believe the statements of other members regarding a 'more revealing' speaker having anything to do with ear fatigue. I now have enough experience and engineer mentors to qualify this statement. Do B&W Nautilus's give you ear fatigue??????? NO
 
Add a tweeter lens from another speaker. I used the same JBL tweeters (but in a different speaker) you have but they had a ringing sound high in the frequency range. I ended up using JBL 075 tweeters with a 4.7uf cap to tame the 075 and a set of JBL LE 175 drivers with horns on top. I’m not suggesting this method for your system but I am suggesting using a tweeter lens that will disperse the high frequency towards the floor and give your ears some relief. You will not lose the sound of the 035 and some of the negative high frequency will be directed and reflected off of the floor.
 
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Add a tweeter lens from another speaker. I used the same JBL tweeters (but in a different speaker) you have but they had a ringing sound high in the frequency range. I ended up using JBL 075 tweeters with a 4.7uf cap to tame the 075 and a set of JBL LE 175 drivers with horns on top. I’m not suggesting this method for your system but I am suggesting using a tweeter lens that will disperse the high frequency towards the floor and give your ears some relief. You will not lose the sound of the 035 and some of the negative high frequency will be directed and reflected off of the floor.

Actually, the lens disperses the sound to the sides. These do an amazing job with the JBL 075/2402 and are an instant cure for ear fatigue. In fact, it is difficult to determine if the 075 with the slant plate is nicer sounding than the 077 without.
 
Good point, I tried everything to cure ear fatigue and nothing worked until I tried a couple lenses. Now I can listen to music for hours and still get the full high frequency sound from these amazing tweeters. The JBL titanium tweeters are nice but do not come close to the 075.
 
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It only took 4 pages but Drummond and toddalin just came in with MASSIVE POINTS! You guys are the first people to suggest to me something besides a cap change and piece of tissue paper! I will try this immediately!

Also, incase anyone is interested in what I consider to be closer to the top end I am seeking, I was given a set of Linn Tukans and I am very pleased with what I am hearing! I am very attracted to the image it gives me and If I were to design a speaker 'top end' I would design it somewhere between a Tukan and my S series AR towers. I could listen to these for days. (I know they have no bass but I will fix that)
 
You guys are the first people to suggest to me something besides a cap change and piece of tissue paper! I will try this immediately!
On the one hand, lenses. On the other, toilet paper, tissue, cloth of some kind. Is there really a huge difference in the intended function, one to the other? Aren't they both attempting to alter the tweeter output before it gets to your ears? You're willing to try one, but not the other? How 'bout I sell you a piece of toilet paper for a hundred-bucks, but make a fancy name and box for it? Willing to try it then? :dunno:

Or maybe Todd could design some custom lenses . . . for your ears?? :beerchug:
 
I've even designed and use lenses on the Heil AMTs that do wonders, though I have the only pairs in existance.

First attempt brass and acrylic:
DSC_00065.JPG

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First set, clear acrylic:
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R&D to determine best angle/length:
DSC_00074.JPG

DSC_0006_2_1.JPG


Final product:
ScreenHunter_193_Feb_18_18_27.jpg

ScreenHunter_194_Feb_18_18_28.jpg
ScreenHunter_196_Feb_18_18_29.jpg
ScreenHunter_195_Feb_18_18_28.jpg


DSC_00122.JPG

DSC_00151.JPG
DSC_00171.JPG
 
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On the one hand, lenses. On the other, toilet paper, tissue, cloth of some kind. Is there really a huge difference in the intended function, one to the other? Aren't they both attempting to alter the tweeter output before it gets to your ears? You're willing to try one, but not the other? How 'bout I sell you a piece of toilet paper for a hundred-bucks, but make a fancy name and box for it? Willing to try it then? :dunno:

Or maybe Todd could design some custom lenses . . . for your ears?? :beerchug:

So you are telling me that you can machine a piece of cloth to have the exact same reproduction between the two pieces I use? So Charmin takes time to make sure each square has a similar acoustic principal? Literally get out of here!

I am JUST starting to get into the game and even I can tell you I am not willing to even entertain ideas like that.
 
Realistically I am not going to end up keeping any JBL that has a 035ti without alteration. It is a moot point.
 
I researched and paid about $18.00.
 

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I probably no the least of the guys hear about JBL. But all JBL's are voiced to be to bright on the high end for me. And if you are not using a Hafler or a good old Mac and Marantz tube amps to calm therm down I can easily imagine what you are going thru. Changing crossover caps might help, but if the drivers are in good shape I suggest you move on.
 
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I probably no the least of the guys hear about JBL. But all JBL's are voiced to be to bright on the high end for me. And if you are not using a Hafler or a good old Mac and Marantz tube amps to calm therm down I can easily imagine what you are going thru. Changing crossover caps might help, but if the drivers are in good shape I suggest you move on.

I have come to the same conclusion. I actually have been running this with a Hafler DH-200 thats been restored to mint condition so the JBL's are out. I do admire a lot of how JBL's image etc and don't consider it a waste to have owned them. Great for researching stuff.
 
Find some older EMIT-equipped Infinities.
I like the sound of my Klipsch's, for awhile anyway..
I can listen to my Infinities for days at a time and never get tired of the sound.
40 year old technology is pretty good once you recap..
 
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I I do admire a lot of how JBL's image

Well the bigger exponential horn speakers (L200+/4320+) image like crap. The 4430 is better, but still not great. Never really listened for the imaging of my L112s in the other room.
 
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What did you do!? Kill the guy and leave him a $20? HOLY HELL
I searched EBay until I came across a lens that I thought would work for my speakers. The lenses came in, in good condition and I used velcro from another project.
 
Update!

I am a Linn man! VERY HAPPY right now with the performance of the Linn gear I have acquired. 100% opposite of JBL and I am thrilled.
I would rather listen to my metal on Linns to any system I own or have owned. Paired with the Linn pretek and powertek these things are absolutely marvelous.

I will say that JBL's throw a wider image and reproduce that knife edge sound better, but the Linns are just more musical and enjoyable to me. I can reach in and touch the music.
I understand 'musical' is not a scientific factor but they really have changed my approach to what I am 'looking for' in a speaker. Clarity is no longer a word I will use when looking for gear.

I am looking to be moved by the music, as was the original intention of the musician. I haven't quite unlocked if its Linns materials engineering or simply the drivers but DAMN is it different.

Thank you to everyone who gave me suggestions to get to this point!

  • Computer -> Scarlett 18i20 -> Pretek -> Powertek -> (tukans) (nexus) (keilidh) = JOY
 
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