• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Need info to decide what's needed to rebuild Thorens TD165

Old Guy8

Old Guy8

Cliff & Cleo
Subscriber
I aquired a TD165 at a garage sale. At least 3rd. hand from an estate. Between this and 2245 Marantz only have $35 invested. The 2 anti-skate arms are broken off. Right hand one is missing with weights. Dust cover and one pivit missing. Motor/spindle works. Rest of arm, headshell, Stanton 600 cart present. Top lightly scratched and pitted. Plinth looks good.
Questions: Is there a separate login for Thorens Owners Group access? Are there threads showing step by step process to evaluate condition and help to estimate what is evolved and cost to DIY rebuild table, before I blunder in? I'm not starting this project right away, but want to read some background to get educated on Thorens. No experience rebuildind TT's. But have mechanical background.
Thanks in advance for help.
 

Attachments

  • 20160522_130829.jpg
    20160522_130829.jpg
    75.3 KB · Views: 69
  • 20160522_130724.jpg
    20160522_130724.jpg
    74.3 KB · Views: 68
  • 20160522_130711.jpg
    20160522_130711.jpg
    77.4 KB · Views: 66
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
The TD160 is the big brother to the TD165/166 so this page HERE can be used to help you out; there is also the gallery page which has all kinds of useful information. Just want to mention d/l the manual from vinyl engine, as I'm fairly sure you've already done this. With a mechanical background I'm sure this will only be a slight challenge, but hugely rewarding. Thorens are fairly easy to work on but sometimes expensive to replace parts (compared to other, less expensive, tables that is). You'll need some DeOxit, Q-tips, rubbing alcohol (I prefer the 91% purity stuff), & bearing oil should get you started. Once it's time to clean it up there is more to buy.

PARTS - lots of info within the site
BEARING OIL - just an example of what to get

I do have to say, if it's too much work, I'd be more , than willing to take it off your hands, lol. Nice find.
 
67dylan,
Have not yet visited the vinyl engine. Have used it for other TT's. Valueable info there. I will check out your other links, too. Turntable is a lot cleaner in picture than when I bought it. Must have been many years dusty storage since last used. Thank you for your time and the info. I assume checking bearings and oiling them will be high on todo list before I run it again.
thanks again.
 
Tnsilver,
Thanks for info and arm ID. Did not know the model. Will check that Thorens group and analog Dept for ideas. Yes, looking at the td165 I can see some similarities to a design of 1983 vintage LP12 I have.
Think I will take my time with anti skate repair so it does not look cobbled up when done. Think I blundered on to a nice table. Will look for your posts.
Thanks,
 
Chris f,
Thanks for info. May get a quart and put some in an applicator bottle. I thought it unlikely I would blunder into one. A garage sale posting with many pictures of stuff under tarp tent. Sawfuzzy Marantz receiver with a turntable above. Turned out to be from an estate, after family picked what they wanted. Years of grime on it. Luck on my part, no skill involved.
Thanks again for info.
 
Last edited:
I kind of did, a guy I have bought some equipment off of has a 160 hiding in his shop. That one he wont get rid of... I did pick up a Dual 1219 and a 504 from him though. Still patiently waiting for my Thorens.
 
chris_f said:
Liquid Bearings is just repackaged synthetic motor oil, I would suggest picking up a quart of Castrol Syntec or Mobil 1 for the same price.
Click to expand...

That is interesting. Where did you find this information? I was looking to purchase some of the LB, so I'm very curious about the info. I've used walmart brand 30W motor oil on my Dual TT, applied w/Q-tips. Maybe I'll just stick with it an recommend it from now on.
BTW, not much difference between any of the synthetic motor oils if using for a TT; no need to spend premium money for Castrol, M1, or Royal Purple for that matter. As an example, GM has stringent 'Corvette/Cadillac' standard for it's motor oil use and walmart brand is an approved oil to use. Synthetic is synthetic.
 
Old Guy8, if LB is repackaged synthetic motor oil, then follow chris_f's advice for using motor oil. No need to spend a few dollars more for something repackaged. Like I stated above, not really a difference between brands if using synthetic motor oil. Stick with 30W though. Use it sparingly and apply with Q-tips.
 
67dylan said:
That is interesting. Where did you find this information? I was looking to purchase some of the LB, so I'm very curious about the info. I've used walmart brand 30W motor oil on my Dual TT, applied w/Q-tips. Maybe I'll just stick with it an recommend it from now on.
BTW, not much difference between any of the synthetic motor oils if using for a TT; no need to spend premium money for Castrol, M1, or Royal Purple for that matter. As an example, GM has stringent 'Corvette/Cadillac' standard for it's motor oil use and walmart brand is an approved oil to use. Synthetic is synthetic.
Click to expand...

The "company" that developed it went out of business and the vendor who was distributing it after no longer appears to. Around this time there was a 'Bay vendor who usurped the name. I also looked for an MSDS sheet and cant find one. I am tempted to email them and ask for it. But as you said, for the most part synthetic is synthetic. If they arent adding anything to it then it cant be markedly different than other available options.
http://www.slotcartalk.com/slotcartalk/showthread.php?27028-Liquid-Bearings

And the reason I stick with the majors is because of the definition of what constitutes "synthetic". In this case if it passes GMs standard its probably pretty good. But if you dont know then why take the chance over a couple of dollars. It may not matter at the end of the day, but in my case I have a BMW 530i that has 330,000 miles on it so I know Castrol Syntec is going to hold up on a platter bearing.
Semi-synthetic oils (also called "synthetic blends") are a mixture of mineral oil and synthetic oil, with no more than 30% synthetic oil, which are engineered to have many of the benefits of full synthetic oil without the cost. Motul introduced the first semi-synthetic motor oil in 1966.[2]

Lubricants that have synthetic base stocks even lower than 30% but with high-performance additives consisting of esters can also be considered synthetic lubricants. In general, the ratio of the synthetic base stock is used to define commodity codes among the customs declarations of tax purposes.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks chris. After you stated that, I looked around the inter-web and found some info. Sad that someone is pouring synthetic oil into a smaller container, charging more, and are making money at it. Good catch...like I said, sticking with the synthetic motor oil use and suggestions from now on.

As to the motor oil, as far as synthetics go, they're all essentially the same. Marketing is the only difference. All have the 'approval' of the API and FTC. Not that anything I say will change your mind, nor should it, as you have a specific brand you are loyal to. For me, I choose a specific manufacturer, but that has more to do with looking for a particular weight for a turbo motor. Though I have to say, WOW!!!! 330k miles is nothing to joke about! That is what I would expect from such a great engineered car that you obviously keep maintained.
 
I have used on fan bushings, some Norvey Inc. turbine lubricating oil, parrafin based non-detergent ment for 1/3hp+ fan bearings, bushings at elevated temps. But synthetic motor oil sounds fine to me. I don't think turntable bearings qualify as a severe application like car engines, especially if turbos (possibly 80,000 rpm.) I could be all wrong too. Have had a couple people in this forum tell me they use grease on thier spindle bushings.
Thanks again for info.
 
Power it up and put your ear near the motor to see if the motor bearing makes noise. If it does, put a couple drops of light machine oil on the top bearing and see if it quiets down. If not you may need a motor. This would be a good thing to evaluate before you go chasing after parts for the arm.
 
Dr*audio,
That is sound advice. I'm going to read up on it. Start with motor/spindle operation. Currently it hums and scrapes a little. Have not inverted outer platter, as read here to view belt for clearances yet.
Just inverted outer platter and ran. Belt climbs motor pulley as speeds up as expected toward high point of pulley. Think it scrapes it's top edge on "fork" of speed change apparatus. Will do some testing. Maybe clean and lube it first before worrying about scrape and hum. From reading here, if belt scrapes, maybe a new Thorens belt to eliminate one variable.
Also, the arm board, think right term, sets against deck. So appears, suspension needs adjustment. Maybe that could be noise source also.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:
67dylan said:
Thanks chris. After you stated that, I looked around the inter-web and found some info. Sad that someone is pouring synthetic oil into a smaller container, charging more, and are making money at it. Good catch...like I said, sticking with the synthetic motor oil use and suggestions from now on.

As to the motor oil, as far as synthetics go, they're all essentially the same. Marketing is the only difference. All have the 'approval' of the API and FTC. Not that anything I say will change your mind, nor should it, as you have a specific brand you are loyal to. For me, I choose a specific manufacturer, but that has more to do with looking for a particular weight for a turbo motor. Though I have to say, WOW!!!! 330k miles is nothing to joke about! That is what I would expect from such a great engineered car that you obviously keep maintained.
Click to expand...
The marketing is exactly why I do, depending on application I will sometimes use the cheaper stuff. But as I said before, "what is the definition of "is". Oils can be up to 30% mineral based with ester stocks and still be considered "synthetic". If it does meet API or ILSAC specs or whatever it likely will never be an issue. But we are talking about $3-4, not $30-40. I used to be a supervisor at a quick lube so we had oil reps in all the time. It was actually a Mobil 1 rep that defended Quaker State and the whole "sludge" reputation. They were the losers of wrong application by the end user and slick marketing by the competition. Its funny though Mobil 1 never really considered QS as competition. And you would think that, but I change my oil filter 2-3 times a year. In that regard I dont maintain it nearly as well as I should.
 
Old Guy8 said:
I have used on fan bushings, some Norvey Inc. turbine lubricating oil, parrafin based non-detergent ment for 1/3hp+ fan bearings, bushings at elevated temps. But synthetic motor oil sounds fine to me. I don't think turntable bearings qualify as a severe application like car engines, especially if turbos (possibly 80,000 rpm.) I could be all wrong too. Have had a couple people in this forum tell me they use grease on thier spindle bushings.
Thanks again for info.
Click to expand...
In comparison to turbos definitely not, engines in general probably not. But I wonder if anyone has done any testing to determine what the operating temperature of a platter bearing is. Especially on the vintage tables like Thorens and Dual that have heavier platters. I would be willing to bet its higher than anyone realizes. Depending on what grease in practice there probably is little difference. Where it becomes a problem is if the grease hardens or dries out over time. Hence the issue most vintage tables have to begin with. If not exposed to dirt and dust theoretically one lubed with synthetic oil would never do this as the oil will stay stable for much longer.
 
A bearing that turns 16-78 RPM at 75 degrees F can use just about any lubrication without concern. There is no comparison to an internal combustion engine for lube requirements. I have seen more than my fair share of empty (dry) bearing wells that ran silent for the most part on consumer tables. If you want to test what happens with oil changes, have at it, the only effect for a very thick lube might be a slight difference in speed if the belt were too loose. If you have a platter that weighs hundreds of pounds, then wear/friction is a larger concern.
 
Remove the belt and outer platter and listen for noises the motor makes. Some hum is ok, chattering in the bearing is bad.
 
Dr*audio,
Belt removed it makes a noise in time to each rotation. Pretty loud. Drounds out any hum it makes. There is some lint wrapped around shaft. I will get some synthetic oil today. Will clean shaft and add few drops of oil as rotates. Do you know if they are ball bearings, cintered bronze or solid bronze bushings? Can bearing at bottom of motor be reached eventually?
thanks for all help
 
Old Guy8 said:
Dr*audio,
Belt removed it makes a noise in time to each rotation. Pretty loud. Drounds out any hum it makes. There is some lint wrapped around shaft. I will get some synthetic oil today. Will clean shaft and add few drops of oil as rotates. Do you know if they are ball bearings, cintered bronze or solid bronze bushings? Can bearing at bottom of motor be reached eventually?
thanks for all help
Click to expand...
Never tried oiling the bottom bearing. You can take the bottom cover off and see. It looks like an Oilite or sintered bronze bearing. Get the lint out and oil it. If it doesn't quiet down you need a new motor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom