Need info to decide what's needed to rebuild Thorens TD165

[Old Guy8]

Dr*audio,
Cleaned up shaft. Added a few drops of Mobil 1 5w-30 to shaft. Quieted right down. I have good hearing for mid 60's old guy. Can't hear anything from it at foot away. Faintly pick it rotation noise but no hum at about 3 to 4 inches away. I'm thinking that is normal.
To remove inner platter for access to spindle bearing, I assume I pull the double finger keeper device back away from spindle and lift inner platter off. Will find manual on Vinyl Engine for referance and see how much is in english.
thanks again.

 

[VintageVibe]

Dr*audio,
Cleaned up shaft. Added a few drops of Mobil 1 5w-30 to shaft. Quited right down. I have good hearing for mid 60's old guy. Can't hear anything from it at foot away. Faintly pick it rotation noise but no hum at about 3 to 4 inches away. I'm thinking that is normal.
To remove inner platter for access to spindle bearing, I assume I pull the double finger keeper device back away from spindle and lift inner platter off. Will find manual on Vinyl Engine for referance and see how much is in english.
thanks again.

A faint noise is not normal under optimal circumstances, but as this is a restore, it is what it is. You should not be hearing any rotation noise even 2" away. My 165 is dead quiet. As mentioned earlier you should use machine oil. Car oil was certainly never recommended by Thorens. I would clean out the spindle shaft holder and the shaft and start over.

The anti-skates are easy. Buy two. The side one is just a pops off. You will have to cut the second one, match it up, and epoxy it where the original was. Then you need the weights.

It's a great table. Stick with it. There are a couple of low cost mods which will greatly improve it.

Keep us posted on your progress!

VV

 

[Old Guy8]

I lubed the top bearing of the motor only so far. Have the inner platter off. I see no wear marks. on spindle shaft. Top bushing looks undamaged. Bottom bushing too far to see. The well is dry but for a drop at bottom. Will fill reservoir after solved next issue.
Another issue: When I removed bottom (cover) board, some loose, rattling parts fell out. Have not yet identified from service manual exploded views. Picture attached. Does anyone recognize? Bracket is little over 1inch long. Spring attached. Broken off screw head.
Thanks for help

 

[Dennis Gardner]

It is part of the lift mechanism. Look at the photo of a similar lift that I have attached. If you zoom in on the lift, you can see how it works within it.

 

[Old Guy8]

It is part of the lift mechanism. Look at the photo of a similar lift that I have attached. If you zoom in on the lift, you can see how it works within it.

Dennis, Clear to me now. The pictures sure helped. Don't know I would have seen it without. Thank you, it saved me a lot of time.

 

[chris_f]

This link includes a table of recommended lubricants from Thorens. Some of them actually are automotive lubricants. In the case of Winns Precision it is an ISO 46 machine oil which is equivalent to an SAE 20 weight oil. Compressor oil could be used also but there is no reason not to use synthetic motor oil that I can see. Aside from detergent additives there would be very little difference in the base stocks if they are all synthetic.

 

[Old Guy8]

This link includes a table of recommended lubricants from Thorens. Some of them actually are automotive lubricants. In the case of Winns Precision it is an ISO 46 machine oil which is equivalent to an SAE 20 weight oil. Compressor oil could be used also but there is no reason not to use synthetic motor oil that I can see. Aside from detergent additives there would be very little difference in the base stocks if they are all synthetic.

Chris f,
Thanks for link. I was a tool designer in a machine shop. No expert on oils. I would think the viscosity would be important. (Most lubricating oils we used in shop were non-detergent.) And might want to change depending on shaft/bushing clearance. The oil trade names in link don't make it easy to compare the oils. If viscosities of each were shown, would help. Thanks for that SAE 20 note gives me point of reference.

 

[Old Guy8]

Hopefully remainder of broken off screw comes out of the cueing lift mechanism. That was a smallll screw.
Like to thank all who have gone out of thier way to help me with their knowledge and links to information. Thanks again!!!

 

[Old Guy8]

It is part of the lift mechanism. Look at the photo of a similar lift that I have attached. If you zoom in on the lift, you can see how it works within it.

There was remainer of broken M2 screw I was able to remove from cueing assembly. Found replacement.
Seems to be one of three extension springs missing from cueing assembly. Have tried to find at a couple hardware stores including largest locally, but too small / light for thier inventory. Has anyone found other local sources for small springs? May try Grainger Supply.

 

[dr*audio]

McMaster-Carr is a great hardware supplier. No minimum order.

 

[Old Guy8]

Dr Audio,
Will try McMaster Carr. Had forgot about them. By the way, the motor has gotten quieter with a little run time after oiling both bushings.
I ordered a new Thorens brand belt for testing of motor/spindle. When that is sorted out, will start on tonearm anti-skating repair.

 

[Old Guy8]

Progress on rebuild. Not a lot. Spindlebearing cleaned and added Mobil 1 5-30 oil. I filled to top of lower bushing. Installed inner platter. Can't see if oil seeps out top, filled or not. Mayber a dental mirror and flashlight to pear under platter would work.
Seems to be dead quiet to my old ears with belt rotating. Thathas been a critical concern resolved. Good.
Missing cueing spring issue: McMaster Carr does not carry an extension spring as small as .010 to .012" thick. Found a too long spring I should be able to modify at Granger. Not yet ordered.
Broken anti skate hanger rod and second missing hanger rod: I ordered a tp11 NOS bearing Cage? With included anti skate hanger from Europe. Anti skate weight and string were missing. I found weight value and will make one up. Will need a fine scale or try to use my Shure VTF scale.
Other issues are missing 45 adapter and dust covers which are available.
Considering wheather to replace Stanton 600 cart or get a eliptical stylus for it short term. Maybe, stylus for trial period.
That is it for now

 

[Old Guy8]

My Thorens TD165 is missing its dustcover and one plith pin mount. Anyone have positive or negative experiences with after market dust covers. One I've seen from Europe sits on top of page. The pics do not show the joints well. I wonder how they look in person. Another cover fits over plith alike the original and looks to have a milled slot in the plexiglass, to accept pivot pin mount. Thanks.

 

[Old Guy8]

Just thought I would post what I have spent so far on rebuild. For anyone interested! May not remember every minor cost.
inital table garage sale price ~$20
Spindle synthetic oil $5
Belt $30
NOS Tonearm bearing frame? with integral anti skate hanger $51
Second fixed anti skate hanger $17
STP oil treatment, long story I will skip $4
Damping fluid $10
Extension spring pkg. for cueing $17
Rubber feet - yet to buy or fancier solution?
Dust cover replacement - yet to decide direction
Replacement for Stanton 600 cart/stylus - may temporarily use Shure M91ed already have.
45 adapter - if needed.
Anti skate weight and string - make up
Possible upgrades:
(Replace interconnects with detachable and socket plate.)
(Replace bottom cover with plywood or MDF)

 

[2manyspkers]

Just thought I would post what I have spent so far on rebuild. For anyone interested! May not remember every minor cost.
inital table garage sale price ~$20
Spindle synthetic oil $5
Belt $30
NOS Tonearm bearing frame? with integral anti skate hanger $51
Second fixed anti skate hanger $17
STP oil treatment, long story I will skip $4
Damping fluid $10
Extension spring pkg. for cueing $17
Rubber feet - yet to buy or fancier solution?
Dust cover replacement - yet to decide direction
Replacement for Stanton 600 cart/stylus - may temporarily use Shure M91ed already have
Possible upgrades:
(Replace interconnects with detachable and socket plate.)
(Replace bottom cover with plywood or MDF)

Nice find and restoration ! You must be the guy that finds all the good deals around the area before I get to them ...... I live just north of Rockford in Roscoe.

 

[Old Guy8]

Nice find and restoration ! You must be the guy that finds all the good deals around the area before I get to them ...... I live just north of Rockford in Roscoe.

So far, not a dreaded flipper, scourge of AK. I jest. I offer extra stuff I find and maybe fix, to friends, if they have the interest or it stacks up here. Live in northeast Rockford. I enjoy working on these mechanical projects. Yes, I to have a lot of speakers. Hope you to enjoy this hobby.
From what I see on that auction site, I will have far more $ in this than what it could bring. Don't see how a person could earn a living rebuilding turntables.

 

[2manyspkers]

So far, not a dreaded flipper, scourge of AK. I offer extra stuff I find and maybe fix, to friends, if they have the interest. Live in northeast Rockford. I enjoy working on these mechanical projects. Yes, I to have a lot of speakers. Hope you to enjoy this hobby. I tried to buy some ADS 980's near me. Made mistake of telling them what they might bring.

J/k I have bought sold and repaired equipment, and I enjoy collecting equipment, repairing some and continuing to improve the systems in my house. As one AK member explained to me if it wasn't for all the people around rescuing and repairing some of the older equipment think how much of it would just end up in the landfill and that benefits no one. I just finished redoing some old Magnepan MGII and it's very satisfying to get something that was junk and get it back into operating condition. I'm looking forward to seeing your TT rebuild unfold and it's nice to see / meet someone from the area with similar interests here. I grew up in Rkfd, and my mother still lives in the Edgebrook / Holy Family area.

 

[Old Guy8]

J/k I have bought sold and repaired equipment, and I enjoy collecting equipment, repairing some and continuing to improve the systems in my house. As one AK member explained to me if it wasn't for all the people around rescuing and repairing some of the older equipment think how much of it would just end up in the landfill and that benefits no one. I just finished redoing some old Magnepan MGII and it's very satisfying to get something that was junk and get it back into operating condition. I'm looking forward to seeing your TT rebuild unfold and it's nice to see / meet someone from the area with similar interests here. I grew up in Rkfd, and my mother still lives in the Edgebrook / Holy Family area.

I've lived most of my life in this area. I'm in RVC area. I share that satisfaction of bringing audio equipment back. I attempt to keep it under some control. I'm repairing a Pioneer sa7500 ll anp with broke pot shaft. I bought a non working same model for part, was not that much.. In one hourof receiving, I have two working sa7500 ll's. They tend to multiply if you don't watch out. Love the looks and soud of them, with the big toggle switches and build quality. Keep enjoying your hobby! Nice to chat with someone same interests in our area.

 

[VintageVibe]

Just thought I would post what I have spent so far on rebuild. For anyone interested! May not remember every minor cost.
inital table garage sale price ~$20
Spindle synthetic oil $5
Belt $30
NOS Tonearm bearing frame? with integral anti skate hanger $51
Second fixed anti skate hanger $17
STP oil treatment, long story I will skip $4
Damping fluid $10
Extension spring pkg. for cueing $17
Rubber feet - yet to buy or fancier solution?
Dust cover replacement - yet to decide direction
Replacement for Stanton 600 cart/stylus - may temporarily use Shure M91ed already have
Possible upgrades:
(Replace interconnects with detachable and socket plate.)
(Replace bottom cover with plywood or MDF)

OG8, imo, your total cost of getting that 165 up and running properly is far below what you would spend for a quality turntable. There's one on ebay. Shipped and having to replace a hanger is $500+. Your return (listening satisfaction) will be significantly higher than your investment. Two of the major upgrades you mention together will cost approx. $30. The rubber feet and the bottom. The original Thorens feet are horrible. I bought a set of soft rubber feet from Dave at vinylnirvana, and a piece of 1/2 inch birch from Home Depot for $6. I cut the birch using the original bottom as the template. I've read that the original interconnects are properly matched for the 165, so I would recommend a shot of DeOxit instead of replacing them.

Just for some perspective, a buddy of mine replaced some older gear with a VPI Traveler a year ago along with a top of the line Ortofon MM and a Rogue Audio Sphinx integrated amp to use with his existing B&W towers (704's maybe?). We listen at his house. Awesome. He comes over to listen at my house: TD 165 / Denon 103r / Pioneer SX-1010 / Boston Acoustic A150 Series 3's. To say he's floored is an understatement.

a couple of sites that may help:
http://vinylnirvana.com/
http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm

VV

 

[Old Guy8]

OG8, imo, your total cost of getting that 165 up and running properly is far below what you would spend for a quality turntable. There's one on ebay. Shipped and having to replace a hanger is $500+. Your return (listening satisfaction) will be significantly higher than your investment. Two of the major upgrades you mention together will cost approx. $30. The rubber feet and the bottom. The original Thorens feet are horrible. I bought a set of soft rubber feet from Dave at vinylnirvana, and a piece of 1/2 inch birch from Home Depot for $6. I cut the birch using the original bottom as the template. I've read that the original interconnects are properly matched for the 165, so I would recommend a shot of DeOxit instead of replacing them.

Just for some perspective, a buddy of mine replaced some older gear with a VPI Traveler a year ago along with a top of the line Ortofon MM and a Rogue Audio Sphinx integrated amp to use with his existing B&W towers (704's maybe?). We listen at his house. Awesome. He comes over to listen at my house: TD 165 / Denon 103r / Pioneer SX-1010 / Boston Acoustic A150 Series 3's. To say he's floored is an understatement.

a couple of sites that may help:
http://vinylnirvana.com/
http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm

VV

VV,
Thanks for the encouragement. When finished this will be my second suspended table. Also have a LP12 made in '83. If it approaches it I will be happy. I have anAT440mla on it. I'm listening to my A100's now.
How do you like your Denon 103r cart? Besides the AT, have a Shure M91 w/LP Gear Vivid stylus on a Lab400 DD and Grado M+ cart on a Denon DP-37F.
Needledoctor site recommended anOrtofon 2M red or blue Verso (from bottom mount) for the TP165. I have read someDenons good fit.
thanks.