Need some advice on a wedding problem!
- Thread starter Audionerd
- Start date
similost
Rockin and Rollin....
Oh.. THAT's the part I missed.. someone else would be using the OP's system...
UM... I'd be right there by his side with the volume slider in my hand. I don't trust too many DJ's when it comes to using gear that isn't theirs. Especially if it's my gear. I've had people toast some of my stuff years and years ago...
I'd for sure be shopping for a compressor with someone else using it too.
UM... I'd be right there by his side with the volume slider in my hand. I don't trust too many DJ's when it comes to using gear that isn't theirs. Especially if it's my gear. I've had people toast some of my stuff years and years ago...
I'd for sure be shopping for a compressor with someone else using it too.
I run sound for my church and have run a number of outdoor programs. Also, I have listened to many wedding setups and provided the sound at my son's wedding for over 400 guests in a medium sized banquet hall. I have also been to dances at large ballrooms for over 600 people.
Your Altecs are great speakers but they are older units for local monitoring or playback in closed rooms. Although highly efficient, they do depend on room/boundry gain for bass below about 60 hz, and they were built/developed before really modern techniques and adhesives were used for big time/big power PA work. With a true 100W power limit, you're going to be really placing these speakers at risk in an outdoor environment and only using two speakers, unless its a fairly small area you're covering (say 1000 sq. ft or less).
One of the biggest problems you'll face is the fact that current music has a lot of low frequency and subsonic crap that loads the system at 60hz and below. IIRC, this will be below the loading of the horn and vents and overdrive the Altec woofers easily. Also, with some "Unknown Kid" who cannot hear distortion running the sound board, unless you have a limiter, this kid is going to push the system as hard as he can, especially after a few drinks, audience urging, and trying to get the most "BUMP" out of the speakers. He's not going to care if he blows your amp(s) or speakers until they fail. The amps will be overdriven since all of them run less than 150W/channel and the risks of distorted output to your speakers are huge.
IMHO, save the speakers for the BBQ, party or smaller gathering. If you have a big wedding party, with modern music, and an uncontrolled DJ, its best to rent a big JBL PA system with separate subwoofers, an elevated set of woofer/mid/tweeter-horns, and at least 4 channels of 200-400W/channel pro amps or more to run each speaker separately.
Do not bother with the EON or other powered systems, they are convenient but compromises at best. Use pro/DJ type JBL gear that can run all day at the SPL's needed.
Why risk your gear IF it may be somewhat undersized for the mission? I am assuming you will need large scale coverage. If you have more information or some pics of the proposed venue, how many people will be there, and how large the area needing coverage, then we can be more precise.
Oh, and be absolutely sure you have dedicated high power (15-20 amp outlets on possibly multiple circuits) that will service only the sound system, and that all cordage is completely secure, taped or covered, and inaccessible to anyone else. Disconnection transients can cause big problems.
This is what I used for my son's wedding for the main system, 2 4648 Double 15 JBL subs, plus 2 JBL 4612B's for mids and top, plus 2 more 4612B's for side fill at the extreme ends of the rectangular hall, all pushed by 4 Yamaha PC2002M 240W/ch pro amps from a Tascam Mixer and Yamaha electronic crossovers, sound was clear, articulate, and loud as was needed, easily pushed 200W peaks on the meters:
Your Altecs are great speakers but they are older units for local monitoring or playback in closed rooms. Although highly efficient, they do depend on room/boundry gain for bass below about 60 hz, and they were built/developed before really modern techniques and adhesives were used for big time/big power PA work. With a true 100W power limit, you're going to be really placing these speakers at risk in an outdoor environment and only using two speakers, unless its a fairly small area you're covering (say 1000 sq. ft or less).
One of the biggest problems you'll face is the fact that current music has a lot of low frequency and subsonic crap that loads the system at 60hz and below. IIRC, this will be below the loading of the horn and vents and overdrive the Altec woofers easily. Also, with some "Unknown Kid" who cannot hear distortion running the sound board, unless you have a limiter, this kid is going to push the system as hard as he can, especially after a few drinks, audience urging, and trying to get the most "BUMP" out of the speakers. He's not going to care if he blows your amp(s) or speakers until they fail. The amps will be overdriven since all of them run less than 150W/channel and the risks of distorted output to your speakers are huge.
IMHO, save the speakers for the BBQ, party or smaller gathering. If you have a big wedding party, with modern music, and an uncontrolled DJ, its best to rent a big JBL PA system with separate subwoofers, an elevated set of woofer/mid/tweeter-horns, and at least 4 channels of 200-400W/channel pro amps or more to run each speaker separately.
Do not bother with the EON or other powered systems, they are convenient but compromises at best. Use pro/DJ type JBL gear that can run all day at the SPL's needed.
Why risk your gear IF it may be somewhat undersized for the mission? I am assuming you will need large scale coverage. If you have more information or some pics of the proposed venue, how many people will be there, and how large the area needing coverage, then we can be more precise.
Oh, and be absolutely sure you have dedicated high power (15-20 amp outlets on possibly multiple circuits) that will service only the sound system, and that all cordage is completely secure, taped or covered, and inaccessible to anyone else. Disconnection transients can cause big problems.
This is what I used for my son's wedding for the main system, 2 4648 Double 15 JBL subs, plus 2 JBL 4612B's for mids and top, plus 2 more 4612B's for side fill at the extreme ends of the rectangular hall, all pushed by 4 Yamaha PC2002M 240W/ch pro amps from a Tascam Mixer and Yamaha electronic crossovers, sound was clear, articulate, and loud as was needed, easily pushed 200W peaks on the meters:
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Jon_Logan
Addicted Member
doesn't the dj appear with them bits ? they do over here . and sometimes get excited and crank up their mixer to distortion and blow amps and speakers . the one reason i got a compressor limiter .
+1 to that!
I used to work for a smaller scale sound reinforcement company and we Always had compressor/limiters. Always. Fast one's on kick, mid horns, and tweeters (if used) and slower one's on vocals. If it's live sound, you have an uncontrolled input. Output climbs in a hurry and isn't very noticeable. Diaphragm crushing transients.
This is if your riding the system pretty hard. Dance and loud records, drunken best man? I don't know. Could be risky.
Those are nice looking rebuilds.
Really, really true. Always do a rehearsal run with everything set up, wired, and running. Have the "DJ" there and make sure he understands exactly what you want him to and what his role will be - running the music but protecting the gear. Nothing worse than having the system fail during the program. Oh, and what about microphones, wired or wireless, and potential for feedback if a mic user steps in front of the speakers - it always happens!
Actually, using a mixer is best, but if you have at least two to four source inputs, you can switch them but that can introduce "Pops" into the sound so best with with a small mixer that can handle RCA/1/4" inputs for iPod/Laptops with predownloaded and/or playlist songs (easiest), or CD player/Aux, and then turntable(s) with phono preamp for others, then microphone inputs for the emcee(s) - usually at least 2 there.
If you have a bona fide DJ who wants to beat match, then you need a DJ type mixer with the source and someone needs to really understand how to use it.
similost
Rockin and Rollin....
I've got a small Tapco MX120 mixer that works perfectly for a small setup like the OP is trying to do... No cross fade, but I've still beat matched with it a few times.. can pick them up fairly cheap. Good quality, good sound, I'm happy with the bang for the buck factor.
Cadillac Kid
Addicted Member
What is the expected attendance at each reception?
Audionerd
Active Member
Yea these were pretty rough
Put handles in them from parts express
The originals were gone got the crossovers on eBay and recapped them
Added furniture feet
Bedlined the cabs with a rattle can plugged the hole in the bottom with mdf screws and liquid nails
Go the drivers and emblems mounted
All done came out good crossover recapped
Had to put some coin into them but they were worth it
Put handles in them from parts express
The originals were gone got the crossovers on eBay and recapped them
Added furniture feet
Bedlined the cabs with a rattle can plugged the hole in the bottom with mdf screws and liquid nails
Go the drivers and emblems mounted
All done came out good crossover recapped
Had to put some coin into them but they were worth it
Cadillac Kid
Addicted Member
Another essential item is a hand-held wireless microphone.
Audionerd
Active Member
The DJ is one of my best friends he doesn't have gear he just wants the job because it's his older brothers wedding and he thinks he's cool he has no gear except the stuff I've found for him at second hand stores with was a toshiba SA 5000 and zenith allegro 3000 for the grand total of 50 bucks I cleaned it all up for him he's just gonna run the tunes of his iPod or laptop I'm sure I'll keep an eye out I've done all the audio installs in cars and boats and houses for friends so they just figured Id have the gear I'll run it through a pre and adjust it so it can only get so loud and tell him the volume on the amp doesn't work he has to use the pre amp he's not tech savvy so shouldn't be a problem
Elliot Thompson
Well-Known Member
Bear in mind sound reinforcement is my job so what you are doing I have encountered hundreds of times.
It seems that you are not interested in buying or renting the proper tools for the event. Possibly you are not getting compensated for your work, which is understandable.
The most I can tell you is, do what you feel is best.
Best Regards,
It seems that you are not interested in buying or renting the proper tools for the event. Possibly you are not getting compensated for your work, which is understandable.
The most I can tell you is, do what you feel is best.
Best Regards,
Audionerd
Active Member
Yea no compensation just a friendly deal and I have about quite abit of coin into it already in the speakers not to mention time I'll do a test run if it's really bad i have a friend with really nice jbls crest amplifiers and other goodies I just don't like to borrow things that are expensive and not mine especially when it's something that can be damaged easily
Audionerd
Active Member
It's just a reception afterward with Music so it shouldnt get to dicey I hooked up some outdoor OBX horns with 6.5 mids for their backyard and it was plenty loud for them off speakers b on a Yamaha home theater receiver so I'm sure I'll be ok old people in attendence it's not a club no rap will be played so I think it will be ok and if they don't like the sound you get what you pay for I bought these speakers just for the wedding and spent hours re building them so I'm already into it deep for free Speaker cost cables bedliner handles feet all the parts alone were a couple hundre bucks not including the speakers I'm glad to own them though will eventually build a folded horn enclosure use Jabo horns, a tube amp like a dynaco stereo 70 and use them in my house Altec horns are awesome and deserve respect they were in theaters for years and aren't power hungry
My advice would be, don't do it!
I've "done" enough parties in my time to know it's not worth the hassle, and can sour or even ruin friendships.
Let's say you have the equipment to do it. Unless you are prepared to stand guard by your equipment at all times, some idiot will come along and screw with it. One party, I sat and watched, bottle in hand ready to launch it at a guys head, as he turned up the volume on my Pioneer amp until it shut off. Luckily, it was only the protection circuit shutting down because of the heat. A 12" box fan next to the amp (which was then stood on it's end) cooled it down enough to last for the rest of the night.
Then there's the choice of music. I was asked to provide equipment for party, and I took a few CDs. All of a sudden, now I was the DJ, and not everyone liked my taste in music. In the end, I threw my hands up, and told them to just play what they wanted.
Lee.
I've "done" enough parties in my time to know it's not worth the hassle, and can sour or even ruin friendships.
Let's say you have the equipment to do it. Unless you are prepared to stand guard by your equipment at all times, some idiot will come along and screw with it. One party, I sat and watched, bottle in hand ready to launch it at a guys head, as he turned up the volume on my Pioneer amp until it shut off. Luckily, it was only the protection circuit shutting down because of the heat. A 12" box fan next to the amp (which was then stood on it's end) cooled it down enough to last for the rest of the night.
Then there's the choice of music. I was asked to provide equipment for party, and I took a few CDs. All of a sudden, now I was the DJ, and not everyone liked my taste in music. In the end, I threw my hands up, and told them to just play what they wanted.
Lee.
OK, so you are going to use the Altecs and your base question is whether to use the Sony or Pioneer. Both should be able to do the job, but with different sonic characteristics. Which one sounds better to you matched with the Altecs and which do you have more confidence in getting through the night without failing? I still suggest taking the setup outside for a listen at reception volume and using the same source (ipod?) and music selection. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Mystery
constantly upgrading...
I used to be a DJ for friends and families and have done around 10 wedding and birthday parties.
I used JBL horn type PA speakers powered with Mackie FR2500 (over 550 wpc) and when dance music comes in, people want more volume. I was pushing Mackie to it's limits in few indoor parties. Unless your party just needs background music or similar volume, you may want to add a pair or two of speakers in the mix.
I used JBL horn type PA speakers powered with Mackie FR2500 (over 550 wpc) and when dance music comes in, people want more volume. I was pushing Mackie to it's limits in few indoor parties. Unless your party just needs background music or similar volume, you may want to add a pair or two of speakers in the mix.
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Just order new diaphragms now, by the end of the 2nd reception you'll probably need them.
BTW, what are those woofers?
BTW, what are those woofers?
petehall347
the brandy coffee man
just looked through this again and the speaker magnets don't look anything like being able to push more than 20 watts or so for lengthy periods . my guess is they will get pretty damn hot after an unknown time ...its not unheard of high powered p.a speakers setting on fire
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
I'm not seeing a crossover network beyond a single cap, am i missing something?