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New found coherency!

imral3

imral3

Enjoy the musics!!
No, not me, I'm still fairly incoherent. However, last night I removed my single Sony SA-WM40 12" 100 watt sub from my system and replaced it with two Pioneer SW-8mk2 8" 50 watt subs. While I don't have any fancy testing equipment or programs to integrate these, I think I did a fair job by ear. And it will get better with more listening and tweaking. But, for now I'm already blown away by the improved imaging and coherency. Wow, just wow. It's not the best gear. But, it's my gear. And I am happy with it (for now). :naughty:
 
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Jim H B said:
What do you think what the biggest source of improvement - having two subs vs one, or is it the new subs are better sounding?
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I would say having two subs, versus one, is the reason for improvement here. These are small and weak as far as subs go. I have them crossed over fairly high, at about 110-115hz, located below and to the outsides of my bookshelf speakers. The bass sounds smoother, fuller, tighter and more impactful but, in a cleaner kinda way.
 
Good subs can at a lot of ambience and spaciousness to a system. With natural sounding recordings, it's very noticeable.

Well done.
 
Always great to get an unexpected improvement!

Perhaps below a certain cut off, one sub vs two may not make much difference - 60hz? - but at 110hz there may still be a lot of stereo separation to be had.
 
Jim H B said:
Perhaps below a certain cut off, one sub vs two may not make much difference - 60hz? - but at 110hz there may still be a lot of stereo separation to be had.
Click to expand...
Agree. That model Sony can be set as low as 50 hz. Most folks set the low pass on subs too high - where localization is evident.

The Pioneers can be set as low as 40 hz. With a pair, however, you get greater latitude for blending to mains. I get the most linear measured results using 50 hz with a pair of 12" Eosone subs used in the HT.
 
Jim H B said:
Perhaps below a certain cut off, one sub vs two may not make much difference - 60hz? - but at 110hz there may still be a lot of stereo separation to be had.
Click to expand...
I know this is right 'by the numbers', but my ears hear different. I've been using 2 subs for years. Like OP, they're 8" and as he puts it "not the best gear." Mine lack some adjustments, and can't roll-off the main speakers; real limitations. But the imaging is stunning. 8" can't go deep-deep-down, mine are specc'd to 27Hz, which is very good for 8" (most are 35Hz). But the speed of the smaller cone vs 12" or 15" gives a great blend with the mains. They're also more articulate, playing distinct notes, even untangling complex bass riffs so they make musical sense. They were 'budget' models to start with, and I got each for about $30 at Thrifts. And they have a very small footprint. I had better subs in the past, flat to 20Hz, but I'm happy with what I hear and don't miss it. I may get a single big sub just to add the extra half-octave and shake my intestines, but it's far from urgent.
 
imral3 said:
I would say having two subs, versus one, is the reason for improvement here. These are small and weak as far as subs go. I have them crossed over fairly high, at about 110-115hz, located below and to the outsides of my bookshelf speakers. The bass sounds smoother, fuller, tighter and more impactful but, in a cleaner kinda way.
Click to expand...

I agree that dual subs are better than using a single.


Jim H B said:
Always great to get an unexpected improvement!

Perhaps below a certain cut off, one sub vs two may not make much difference - 60hz? - but at 110hz there may still be a lot of stereo separation to be had.
Click to expand...

My thought as well when I read how high imral3 has his settings. However, he's there, his room, his ears and preferences, but some more experimentation seems warranted.


E-Stat said:
Agree. That model Sony can be set as low as 50 hz. Most folks set the low pass on subs too high - where localization is evident.

The Pioneers can be set as low as 40 hz. With a pair, however, you get greater latitude for blending to mains. I get the most linear measured results using 50 hz with a pair of 12" Eosone subs used in the HT.
Click to expand...

Agree, and would add that most have levels set too high, as well.
 
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Of course it all depends on your main speakers. If you have bookshelves on stands, away from the wall, maybe you want a higher cut off, and two smaller subs. If you just want some really low end for your floor standers - one sub with a low cut off might do it - with more latitude on placement. Never hurts to play around with it. But I'm liking the idea of two smaller subs.
 
Quality of sub also. I have three subs in my media rm, two for home theater duty, one for music playback, all are 12". The single sub was 10X the price of both the others combined, there's really no contest for music playback lol. Sure two of the better subs are better than a single, but that's not to say two are "always" superior.
 
Getting closer. Listening time is often limited by life (you know how that goes). Switched phase to 180* and crossovers now hovering around 84hz.
 
sqlsavior said:
Your mains supposedly go down to 39 Hz. Lower still may be even better.
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I know. I may get there. However, I think it's a matter of the room fighting me with their placement. I plan on moving the sub(s) tomorrow or the next day. Not many options though as this is a small room with a full size bed in it used for guests. You work with what you have.
 
Odd. For me, getting one really good 18" DIY sub made more of a difference than running 2 15" subs in the same room. But that comes down to the 18 running sealed, with a crapton of watts backing it up. Both 15's were wattage shy and ported.
 
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