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New PL-630 & V15 IV stylus replacement?

aj_chicago

aj_chicago

Spin 'em if ya got 'em
Picked up a Shure V15 IV on a Pioneer PL-630. I'd love to get the V15 IV going, but no stylus. I've read all the posts on the JICO's and the Ed Saunders' and think I'd like to get an Ed Saunders replacement for this Pioneer "S" tone arm, but I sure wish there was a way to test it before popping for $80 - $120. Is there? Are there other styli that might fit for a test? I haven't examined it yet, but I do have an M97xE. Might that fit? And while I'm at it, is anyone so sold on their JICO on their high end TT that they'd like to dump their Ed Saunders? Then again, maybe the particular Ed Saunders someone happened to get had a quality issue and that's why the JICO sounds so much better. Hmmmmm? :scratch2: Naaaaaaa. I hate it when I think like that. Anyone like their Ed Saunders stylus better than a JICO? Didn't see anyone admitting to that, but didn't see anything objective as to why the JICO was better other than the ability to track some "1812 overture" cannon shots, which I don't think I care about.

By the way, the 630 is pretty minty (except for missing headshell) and pretty cool (everything works...yes! :thmbsp: ), but what a monster! Shame on me, but I did not pay attention to dimensions. Semi-impulse buy, but it came with the V15 IV and I wanted to try both. Anyone got one of these beasts? I'm pretty sure it weighs more than the receiver it's attached to and it's not gonna fit in my Pioneer cabinet. Barely straddles the top. Also looking for an Operator Guide (none in the AK Pioneer database) and anyone with expertise in maintaining one. Figure there are gonna be questions not answered in the Service Guide, like where is or is there an adjustment for arm lift height? Indexing (set down) adjustment?
 
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aj_chicago said:
Picked up a Shure V15 IV on a Pioneer PL-630. I'd love to get the V15 IV going, but no stylus. I've read all the posts on the JICO's and the Ed Saunders' and think I'd like to get an Ed Saunders replacement for this Pioneer "S" tone arm, but I sure wish there was a way to test it before popping for $80 - $120. Is there? Are there other styli that might fit for a test? I haven't examined it yet, but I do have an M97xE. Might that fit? And while I'm at it, is anyone so sold on their JICO on their high end TT that they'd like to dump their Ed Saunders? Then again, maybe the particular Ed Saunders someone happened to get had a quality issue and that's why the JICO sounds so much better. Hmmmmm? :scratch2: Naaaaaaa. I hate it when I think like that. Anyone like their Ed Saunders stylus better than a JICO? Didn't see anyone admitting to that, but didn't see anything objective as to why the JICO was better other than the ability to track some "1812 overture" cannon shots, which I don't think I care about.

By the way, the 630 is pretty minty (except for missing headshell) and pretty cool (everything works...yes! :thmbsp: ), but what a monster! Shame on me, but I did not pay attention to dimensions. Semi-impulse buy, but it came with the V15 IV and I wanted to try both. Anyone got one of these beasts? I'm pretty sure it weighs more than the receiver it's attached to and it's not gonna fit in my Pioneer cabinet. Barely straddles the top. Also looking for an Operator Guide (none in the AK Pioneer database) and anyone with expertise in maintaining one. Figure there are gonna be questions not answered in the Service Guide, like where is or is there an adjustment for arm lift height? Indexing (set down) adjustment?
Click to expand...

Congrats on your purchase. It is a hell of a TT.

Search is your friend here. The resident expert on this table is Pustelniakr. Check out all his posts on it. You will find nigh onto all that you need there.
 
Congrats,
When one spends a little bit more money on something that is of good quality, one wastes only a little money, but when one spends money on something that's garbage, one wastes all his/her money.

Reports across the board pretty much confirm the Ed Saunders replacement Styli are junk. You were right in thinking that the Ed Saunders Styli you'd be getting from another person, would be his/her throwaway.

When the poster you read about made mention about his Cartridge now tracking the 1812 Overture, he was saying in essence that his cartridge now finally properly tracks.

Before it didn't.

A cartridge-stylus that doesn't track properly destroys whatever it comes in contact with. Can you afford to see your record collection trashed due to a cheap stylus? The Shure Type IV is one heck of a great tracking Cartridge. Don't compromise it with a cheap Stylus

Save your money for the time being, do mount the M-97, and buy the Jico when you can afford to, preferably the Jico SAS, you'll be glad you did. Read my post further down the thread page about the Jico I just purchased. Mark
 
Let me tell you, it was a good impulse buy. Only three days earlier, one sold for $100 more.

The M97xE stylus will not fit. My suggestion is to mount the M97xE for the time being to test it. I'm sure you'll like the sound. Then decide what to do with the V15. I can vouch for the JICO stylus and the V15 IV--it truly brings it to a new level.

Mount the cartridge square with the headshell and so that the distance from the tip of the stylus to the end of the rubber washer is 48.5mm.

[I was recommending 49mm in the past, but I have discovered that 48.5 is more accurate for the longer, 237mm arms (PL-630/610/600/570), while 49mm works better for the shorter 221mm arms.]
 
markd51 said:
Congrats,
When one spends a little bit more money on something that is of good quality, one wastes only a little money, but when one spends money on something that's garbage, one wastes all his/her money.

Reports across the board pretty much confirm the Ed Saunders replacement Styli are junk. You were right in thinking that the Ed Saunders Styli you'd be getting from another person, would be his/her throwaway.

When the poster you read about made mention about his Cartridge now tracking the 1812 Overture, he was saying in essence that his cartridge now finally properly tracks.

Before it didn't.

A cartridge-stylus that doesn't track properly destroys whatever it comes in contact with. Can you afford to see your record collection trashed due to a cheap stylus? The Shure Type IV is one heck of a great tracking Cartridge. Don't compromise it with a cheap Stylus

Save your money for the time being, do mount the M-97, and buy the Jico when you can afford to, preferably the Jico SAS, you'll be glad you did. Read my post further down the thread page about the Jico I just purchased. Mark
Click to expand...

Well, I hear what you are saying, and I truly appreciate it (still waffling a little here), but I was thinking along the lines that I probably won't come across any track like the 1812 overture cannon shots in my collection and those posts who said they had a problem still "LIKED" the sound out of the Saunders stylus. Think I am wrong in that train of thought?
 
Congradulations on the table, it is a heck of a fine machine. Yes, there are users who like both the Saunders and the JICO stylus'.

The 1812 recording could be viewed as a death match for many a stylus.

One consideration. Shure has never minced words when it come to tracking. You will find that the predicate their sound on tracking. If you purchase one of their test records and follow along with their instructions you will note any flaws you find in audio performance they will blame on less than perfect tracking.

Sibalance and distortion a key examples of tracking error.
 
aj_chicago said:
Well, I hear what you are saying, and I truly appreciate it (still waffling a little here), but I was thinking along the lines that I probably won't come across any track like the 1812 overture cannon shots in my collection and those posts who said they had a problem still "LIKED" the sound out of the Saunders stylus. Think I am wrong in that train of thought?
Click to expand...

Hello AJ,
I hope there is no fuss about me placing a link for you for a dealer that sells the headshells that you need if you haven't already purchased one.

These look like they will fit the bill perfectly, and are as close to the Original Headshell as you're going to get. You even got your choice of colors-finishes! Here's the link http://www.turntablebasics.com/hardware.html

Of course there are better Headshells, like the Sumiko that will fit, provided you have enough counterweight to use this heavier Headshell (an issue I'm currently facing on a Grace Arm), has adjustable Azimuth, but not cheap at about $40 currently.

There could be variables in why the poster who mentioned his Cartridge would not track the 1812 Overture with the Ed Saunders, versus the Jico.
Could have been a slight possible mis-alignment when he used the Saunders, but probably not likely?

Of course, the Cannon Shots in the 1812 Overture is some of the hardest passages a Stylus will ever deal with.

The Shure V-15's were essentially the all-time Tracking Champs. Even some very expensive Cartridges cannot best these Shures for thier Tracking Abilities.

From what I've personally seen, and read, the Jico (Particularly, the Jico SAS uses a Boron Cantilever, and appears to have a much better grade, and design of Stylus Diamond. From what I can see, is that they didn't take any shortcuts, or compromises when fabricating these replacement stylus'. They are beautifully made.

The Jico IMO will equate to noticeably better sonics with its Stylus Size, and Design, and a good bet it might even surpass the Orignal Shure Stylus intended for this Cartridge.

Generally in the Cartridge world, you do get what you pay for. They (and the Stylus' as well) are priced very accordingly.

As an example, I think you'd be very hard pressed, finding a new $100 Cartridge that will outperform a new $200 one, so on, and so forth. I think you get the idea. Mark
 

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markd51 said:
Hello AJ,
I hope there is no fuss about me placing a link for you for a dealer that sells the headshells that you need if you haven't already purchased one.

These look like they will fit the bill perfectly, and are as close to the Original Headshell as you're going to get. You even got your choice of colors-finishes! Here's the link http://www.turntablebasics.com/hardware.html
Mark
Click to expand...

Gaaaaawwwd I love this place! Mark, you took the thought right out of my head before I could ask. Now another decision... black (like the sides and platter mat), or brushed aluminum (like the rest of the machine). First instinct is black to offset all the silver. Better get 2. Don't know what is on there or where it came from, but I was able to mount an old Audio Technica to test it out. Suppose I could clean that one up and keep it for a spare. It was a &itch to get those little screws on there, though...just barely long enough, but I managed (with needlenose in one hand and screwdriver in the other and a few tries, and a few expletives).
 
Gonna ask about an Operator Guide in another thread. Anyone here happen to have one. Not in the AK databases.
 
AJ, the table is gorgeous! The original headshell was a silver-colored, magnesium headshell that might be hard to track down. MarkD is right on the money regarding the those headshells at turntablebasics--those are sized and have slots that approximate the original. They are also nice and light, keeping the arm mass lower. Only problem is that the metal finger lift will interfere with the dust cover closing. Just bend it slightly inward or rearward and problem solved.

I have the Owners Manual which came with a table I purchased. Email me through the system and I'll scan and email it to you as jpegs or send you a copy whichever you prefer. Anyone else need it, just email me.

The V15 IV has that nice mounting bar with the threaded holes for the screws--such a pleasure. Too bad Shure didn't use that with their other carts.
 
aj_chicago said:
Already did.... no got, just the SM.
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AJ, You gave me a nice "vintage drool" with your pics, thank you! I wish I could post pics here too, to give youse all a drool, but I'm on Web-TV, and cannot due to incompatibility with this site (Moderators, are you reading this?)

Yes, perhaps buying two Headshells might be a benefit?
You could quickly switch between already mounted Cartridges. Rebalance, and Anti Skate are simple procedures, with the right tools, which can be as simple as a Shure Stylus Force Gauge, and a Cardas Test LP with its Blank Tracks.

So, you're in Chicago AJ? I lived there all my life up until 4 years ago (Near west side, Circle Campus Area). Have you ever personally been to MusicDirect on Laflin St? Drop in, and give my good friend Bes Nivera a visit. He's the nicest guy you ever wanna meet, and visiting the store is better than a visit to a Candy Shop!

Don"t bring too much money, and "try" to resist the urge of whipping out a credit card! I've spent literal $1,000's in that store. They definitely got the goods! lol

Before I forget, please do have yourself a Home Run Inn Pizza, and a nice Italian Beef Sandwich at the Patio On Taylor St/Laflin St for me! Oh, and some Mexican Food at Nuevo Leon on 18th St! hee hee. God, how I miss the food in Chicago! New Mexico is the pits for food. Mark
 
aj_chicago said:
Already did.... no got, just the SM.
Click to expand...

AJ, as far as clean up (Stylus), what many Audiophiles, with multi-thousand dollar cartidges are now using to keep thier stylus' clean, is the Mister Clean Magic Eraser. (The white one, and use it dry)

What they do, is cut a small cube, lay it on the turntable, and dunk the Stylus into it, or carefully raise the small cube of Magic Eraser up to the needle without placing any undue pressure on the Stylus-Cantilever.

For about $2.50, you'll have a lifetime supply.

Since you found your way into this forum, and are no doubt having a great time here, do join other forums, such as Audiogon, and the Audio Asylum.

All three of these forums have archives that all you have to do, is place a search in the search engine, and can bring back posts about virtually any topic you can think of, from Record Cleaners, Gauges, Test Records, Cartridges, Cables, Amps, CD Players, you name it!

Audiogon mostly caters to more of the high end, but is a very valuable resource, and all the classifieds will blow your mind. I've bought quite a bit of nice gear from folks there, and will continue to do so in the future. There's also many gurus there, who will un-selfishly help, just like the good folks here, such as Hakaplan (Howard) and many others. Mark
 
I had to add this. I got curious so I did a search on this table I know we are not allowed to paste links to that famous auction site, but I found one on there and it made me laugh. Starting bid and BIN now are the same $400.00
so I gues if you bid you bought it lol.
 
hakaplan said:
I have the Owners Manual which came with a table I purchased. Email me through the system and I'll scan and email it to you as jpegs or send you a copy whichever you prefer. Anyone else need it, just email me.

The V15 IV has that nice mounting bar with the threaded holes for the screws--such a pleasure. Too bad Shure didn't use that with their other carts.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Howard. Note sent. Oh, didn't know that about the V15 IV. Have never mounted one. Will take a look. Made me go look at how the finger lift would interfere. I'm sure you have direct experience, but I can't see how it would. Seems like there is room there to me. Will find out. Oh, just went and raised it. When you raise it there might be a problem with the angled front of the dust cover. That what you are talking about?
 
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