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New PL-630 & V15 IV stylus replacement?

AJ, as far as clean up (Stylus), what many Audiophiles, with multi-thousand dollar cartidges are now using to keep thier stylus' clean, is the Mister Clean Magic Eraser. (The white one, and use it dry)

What they do, is cut a small cube, lay it on the turntable, and dunk the Stylus into it, or carefully raise the small cube of Magic Eraser up to the needle without placing any undue pressure on the Stylus-Cantilever.

For about $2.50, you'll have a lifetime supply.

Since you found your way into this forum, and are no doubt having a great time here, do join other forums, such as Audiogon, and the Audio Asylum.

All three of these forums have archives that all you have to do, is place a search in the search engine, and can bring back posts about virtually any topic you can think of, from Record Cleaners, Gauges, Test Records, Cartridges, Cables, Amps, CD Players, you name it!

Audiogon mostly caters to more of the high end, but is a very valuable resource, and all the classifieds will blow your mind. I've bought quite a bit of nice gear from folks there, and will continue to do so in the future. There's also many gurus there, who will un-selfishly help, just like the good folks here, such as Hakaplan (Howard) and many others. Mark

Thanks, Mark. I do use the Mr. Clean "cube", too (ala AK discussions) and just picked me up a Shure SF gauge. I'm a member of the other forums, but AK just somehow became the defacto fav and I spend most of what spare time I have here. Good, friendly, helpful people across them all, and a wealth of knowledge. Hakaplan is going to set me up with a scan of the 630 operator guide. Ask nicely here and ye generally shall receive. I try to "pay it forward" when I can. I'll have to get downtown and pay Bes Nivera a visit. Next Chicago thrift store excursion I will try to drop by. Sounds like a nice place. Home Run Inn is now out here in the burbs on Lake Street in a nice new place just 15 minutes down the road from me (in Itasca I think). Been there twice in probably 4 years they've been opened. Too many good pizza places right here. Everyone misses the Italian beefs. I went to visit a friend of mine who moved way up to Eagle River Wisconsin. I asked him if there was anything I could bring him and he said, "Ya, Portillo's beef!". I also plan to send it frozen to my nephew in Minnesota. Portillo's will do that for you as just a service they offer.
 
I had to add this. I got curious so I did a search on this table I know we are not allowed to paste links to that famous auction site, but I found one on there and it made me laugh. Starting bid and BIN now are the same $400.00
so I gues if you bid you bought it lol.

Hmmmmm? Ya. Why not just "Buy It Now"? I do believe that I checked last week and saw one went for $400. I've seen Bohey's 1229's and 1219's go for that, too though. They are all nice machines.
 
That skinny little boron (boron? is boron a stiff metal?) cantilever on the Jico has me worried. I'm afraid it won't take any kind of accidental abuse. Any thoughts there?
 
That skinny little boron (boron? is boron a stiff metal?) cantilever on the Jico has me worried. I'm afraid it won't take any kind of accidental abuse. Any thoughts there?

Hello AJ, great news Howard is helping. He's helped me, and my friend also.

Ah yes Portillos. Been there.
Used to fish the Minoqua-Woodruff Wisconsin area.
Bosaki's Boat House restaurant in Minoqua is a fantastic place, with the best food, and drink! Do get there if you're ever in the area.

As for Boron, I believe this is some sort of synthetic, akin to graphite. I know they have made high quality, expensive Fishing Rods from Boron, and would assume that it is a very strong, and sensitive material. One can snap any cantilever, regardless of type of material if not careful.

Imagine the disgust snapping a $100 Stylus' Cantilever. Then imagine how one would feel breaking one on a $4,500 Lyra Titan MC Cartridge, and the whole Cartridge now requires a re-tip, or exchange. This boo boo would probably cost one about $1000!

I've accidently flicked my Benz Glider's Cantilever a few times a bit on the hard side, and had my heart stop on a few occasions, but luckily, no damage had occured. None the less, 10 year old kids, cats, and the inexperienced, combined with expensive cartridges usually don't mix very well. lol

Normally, most Cartridges can hold up to some minor abuse without sustaining any damage, but when "Wilson", the Soccer Ball comes flying across the room, and lands on the Tonearm, there really isn't anything made that's impervious to this sort of abuse.

Lastly, I'd like to make note about Ed Saunders who owns Garage A Records. Ed's a fine dude, has an excellent reputation, sells many great products, and has many happy customers. I wanted to say this, as some might get the wrong impression that I'm claiming Ed is Darth Vader! hee hee

Some do like his Shure Replacement Stylus' (Probably the Swiss made one, not the rebranded Phanasteil), but many do prefer the Jico SAS. Mark
 
Lastly, I'd like to make note about Ed Saunders who owns Garage A Records.
Mark, are you sure about that? Ed's in Georgia and Garage-A-Records is in Indiana. You might be thinking of someone else. Ed conducts business as himself, and lists all his phone numbers in his ebay store.
 
I have been very happy with the sound of the Ed Saunders Swiss-made V15 III stylus. i don't plan to play the 1812 any time soon. I'm a little concerned about someone maligning his product. Even if it's not JICO or original Shure, it seems to do the job very well.
 
I have been very happy with the sound of the Ed Saunders Swiss-made V15 III stylus. i don't plan to play the 1812 any time soon. I'm a little concerned about someone maligning his product. Even if it's not JICO or original Shure, it seems to do the job very well.

Sorry to make you concerned LPlover. Yes, as I understand, there were a couple of versions that Ed sold, and the Swiss version you state you have has been reported to be good. The other, not so good. Mark
 
Pl-630

Hello AJ,

I'm the guy that picked up the PL-630 three days before you (and for a few dollars more). Mine just arrived and is in beautiful condition with the exception of some light scratches on the dust cover. I've put together a Pioneer Silver rack with a Spec 1 Preamp and a Spec 4 Amp and the RT-909 tape deck, and the TT fits beautifully on the rack top. I have a limited number of lp's, but Dire Straits served well as the first listen and sounded terrific.

It's been a long time between turntables for me, and I appreciate the open offer given on the forum for a manual (I downloaded the service manual). I could also use some advice on how to evaluate a stylus - how do you determine when replacement is required? The cartridge that came with the unit is the ma 2002e.

And - is the Discwasher and D3 fluid still a reasonable system for cleaning? Also, any suggestion for buffing out the scratches on the dust cover, or best to leave them alone?

Thanks for any advice,

mdlupke
 
Mark, are you sure about that? Ed's in Georgia and Garage-A-Records is in Indiana. You might be thinking of someone else. Ed conducts business as himself, and lists all his phone numbers in his ebay store.

Hello Howard, Yep, Evidently I'm thinking of somebody else, my error.

To mdlupke,
You will find various polishing instructions in this forum. Some suggest the Novus polishes, I have suggested, and have had good experience with Auto Care Products, such as Mequiars Deep Crystal Polish (#1+#2+), and also products such as 3M Hand Glazes followed by a good Wax-Poly Sealer.

Generally most larger Auto Stores like Auto-Zone, Checkers, etc carry products like Meguiars-Mother's Plastic Polish in the Wax section, and these should work as well.

As for the D-3, or D-4 Discwasher Products, and Brush, yes they will work just fine. Many products, which are better have come along in recent years which will clean very filthy LPs better, and of course cost an arm, and a leg too. While Discwasher may not get your LPs thier cleanest, I also doubt the use of Discwasher will be the cause of irreversable harm to your LPs. I've used the stuff for years myself, never had problems, and those same LPs still play great to this day.

As for stylus wear, I'll leave others to comment, but your ear will be a good judge. Otherwise, very high magnification would be needed, and a trained eye to determine whether the Stylus is worn to the point of needing replacement. Hope this helps. Mark
 
need to chime in

I have A PL630 that was Reworked by Rich on this site and it is a fantastic table everytime i want to "upgrade" to a new table im brought back to how awesome this table reallly is it blows the doors off of the 300 to 600 dollar offerings that are out there new. I have a V15III and a Ed Saunders swiss replacement sylus i A/B ed to an nos SHURE v35 and it was identical. I have also heard very good things bout the SAS but i like doing biz with ED and also like his prices . I ended up with an AT15SLA (rare quad cart ) and ed had NOS styli for it and i mounted it on the Pioneer WOW so now i have two systems with the swap of a headshell and adjustments. do use a test record though the servo drive is powerful and dead on easy to miss stuff in the setup also the sideforce is stronger than is marked (testrecord again) and can cause premature cantilever "leaning"
 
I have A PL630 that was Reworked by Rich on this site and it is a fantastic table everytime i want to "upgrade" to a new table im brought back to how awesome this table reallly is it blows the doors off of the 300 to 600 dollar offerings that are out there new. I have a V15III and a Ed Saunders swiss replacement sylus i A/B ed to an nos SHURE v35 and it was identical. I have also heard very good things bout the SAS but i like doing biz with ED and also like his prices . I ended up with an AT15SLA (rare quad cart ) and ed had NOS styli for it and i mounted it on the Pioneer WOW so now i have two systems with the swap of a headshell and adjustments. do use a test record though the servo drive is powerful and dead on easy to miss stuff in the setup also the side force is stronger than is marked (testrecord again) and can cause premature cantilever "leaning"

That's another possible reason to lean toward the aluminum cantilever... less chance of "premature cantilever lean". However, I say "possible" because I know of no empirical evidence that says the thin boron cantilever on the JICO SAS is any less rigid and strong than the aluminum one on the Ed Saunders. I've just read comments about how thin and fragile the JICO styli are. However, there is empirical evidence that the Ed Saunders replacements are fairly identical to the V15 III stylus. Along with the personal reviews like yours and others and my "biggest bang for the budget" mentality, I think Ed Saunders is going to have a new customer. I only wish I could read the same comments about a V14 IV stylus. I am only assuming it has the same qualities as the V15 III. Think I'll ask Ed.
 
That's another possible reason to lean toward the aluminum cantilever... less chance of "premature cantilever lean". However, I say "possible" because I know of no empirical evidence that says the thin boron cantilever on the JICO SAS is any less rigid and strong than the aluminum one on the Ed Saunders. I've just read comments about how thin and fragile the JICO styli are. However, there is empirical evidence that the Ed Saunders replacements are fairly identical to the V15 III stylus. Along with the personal reviews like yours and others and my "biggest bang for the budget" mentality, I think Ed Saunders is going to have a new customer. I only wish I could read the same comments about a V14 IV stylus. I am only assuming it has the same qualities as the V15 III. Think I'll ask Ed.

AJ/All, Unsure of what the Type IV Stylus is, but Ed will no doubt give you the low down.

As for Cantilever Lean, and the Jico with Boron Cantilever, I cannot comment, as I've yet to put long miles on this Stylus to evaluate.

Truth is, many of the high end Cartridges now days do use Boron as a Cantilever Material, and while I've not ever heard problems such as this, I won't discount that it is untrue.

It is surprising what end users do, and resort to with analog playback, and at times, it never fails to amaze me.

Recent threads in other forums, and conversations with acquaintances bring up things like one user setting up a Koetsu Universe Cartridge, relying on the Tonearm itself to precisely set VTF. He later believes he found out he was way off, setting way too heavy by 1g. After blowing an unbelieveable amount of $$$ on the Cartridge, was then reluctant to at least spring $24 for a Shure Stylus Gauge!

Others believe that thier homemade "Mad Scientist" cleaning concoctions are the best on the planet, and then wonder why thier LPs sound bad, with huge amounts of background noise, tons of clicks, and pops.

Others again wonder why thier analog sound is lackluster, and always return back to thier Best Buy CD Player, when they're running 25'-30' of cheap Interconnect to a pre-amp's phono stage 1/2 way across the room, and running a stylus that was put into service when Nixon was President.

Of course they then tell you "How can a Stylus wear, when it is made of Diamond with a hardness of 10, and the Vinyl is so soft with a hardless much less than 1 and by comparison, that it is impossible for it to wear"!

I could come up with a dozen more stories, one for instance was my friend with an old Ortofon Cartridge, who's Cantilever suspension was so shot, the Cartridge body was actually riding-rubbing the LP's surface, but that didn't seem to phase him in the slightest, and continued on merrily destroying 1/2 his valuable LP collection, until I told him to either re-tip that Cartridge, or dump it in the garbage which was actually the best place for it. How dumb, that he probably had another 20 decent Cartridges in his possession, some like V-15 Type II and III's, yet seemed to have some "nostalgic attachment" to this worn out piece of junk!?

Sadly, many of the needed products-devices for Analog quickly add up, and cost some substantial hard earned money. Take for instance the Record Research Labs Cleaners I just bought. With one at $25 a qt (Comes to $100 a gal) and the other at $25 a pint (Comes to $200 a gal) these are not cheap, but at least I know these are some of the finest products to properly clean an LP with, won't harm my LPs, and will not leave residues that will get in the way of what the stylus, and the rest of my sytem is required to do.

One doesn't have to spend $600+ on a Winds Stylus Force Gauge, nor spend $500 for a VPI 16.5 Cleaning machine. Still, good common scientific sense is needed for set-up-maintainence.

Another friend who uses a very good Table-Arm-Cartridge Combo, and is unsure about Cartridge Alignment because he has never thought of using a simple Protractor to align this system with. The list goes on, and on. Mark
 
You got a great find. Isn’t it a beautiful table?

The original magnesium headshell for the PL-630 looks like this. I don’t think you’ll be able to find a replacement for the lightweight headshell. The leg of the headshell is a little longer then most which makes it easy to move the headshell in position. And it's very nicely made.

 
You got a great find. Isn’t it a beautiful table?

The original magnesium headshell for the PL-630 looks like this. I don’t think you’ll be able to find a replacement for the lightweight headshell. The leg of the headshell is a little longer then most which makes it easy to move the headshell in position. And it's very nicely made.


Thanks. Ya, I'm liking it a bunch. I really had no idea exactly what I was getting when I bought it. Just saw it had an unadvertised V15 IV mounted and did some quick research and saw a couple comments that it was one of the best turntables Pioneer ever put out, so I figured I might make an all-Pioneer system, but was really buying it for the V15 IV, hoping one or the other was in good shape. I was kinda shocked when I opened the box. Like Christmas! First thing I thought was "Wow!". Second thing was, "Where the hell am I gonna put that monster?". Third thing was, "Holy Crap! That sucker is heavy!" Lol! Inspecting the headshell that is on it a little closer, I find that someone had a reason to drill their own 2 mounting holes toward the back, right through the Pioneer name, gouging and scratching the top as they did, but it is workable, just not too cosmetically pleasing. Wish I could find one of those old originals. Those do look awfully nice. Maybe some day.
 
Thanks. Ya, I'm liking it a bunch. I really had no idea exactly what I was getting when I bought it. Just saw it had an unadvertised V15 IV mounted and did some quick research and saw a couple comments that it was one of the best turntables Pioneer ever put out, so I figured I might make an all-Pioneer system, but was really buying it for the V15 IV, hoping one or the other was in good shape. I was kinda shocked when I opened the box. Like Christmas! First thing I thought was "Wow!". Second thing was, "Where the hell am I gonna put that monster?". Third thing was, "Holy Crap! That sucker is heavy!" Lol! Inspecting the headshell that is on it a little closer, I find that someone had a reason to drill their own 2 mounting holes toward the back, right through the Pioneer name, gouging and scratching the top as they did, but it is workable, just not too cosmetically pleasing. Wish I could find one of those old originals. Those do look awfully nice. Maybe some day.

AJ, Read this most recent post. Isn't that sad (and "Stupid again" as I earlier explained) that somwhere along the line, something stupid like drilling new oddball holes into a Headshell was somehow required for a fit?
Geesh!

That is a purty headshell. Others that are good, and easily gotten, are the Sumiko Black Billet Alu Headshell, with Litz Copper Headshell leads, but not cheap at the now going price of $40. Still, not the top of the line, as ZYX makes a Headshell costing $500!

When will it ever end, huh? I'm quite certain that those Headshells that I provided a link for, will work just fine on your Pioneer, and are only what, $10 a pop? In the meantime, keep the ole eyes peeled on Ebay for the Original? lol

Do keep us posted on progress. I'm loving this thread, and all the good input everyone has posted-donated! Mark
 
Well, with Howard 's (Hakaplan's) expert advice I was able to get the dang platter off. :thmbsp: Had no idea it would be a two man job. I have tackled a couple different ways a platter is locked on (Duals) before, but this was different. The disassembly instructions start with the platter already off and don't say a thing about it, and the assembly instructions don't say a thing about any locking mechanism, but that sucker was on there solid! :scratch2: Had to sheepishly ask Howard and I just knew he was going to say nothing is locking it on. So one guy holds the platter by the two holes while the other whacks the spindle with a hammer. Light tapping with a tack hammer wouldn't do it. Had to trade for a heavy duty hammer and whack it (covered with a towel) pretty darn good to get it off. Of course, I see now that the spindle goes from narrow at the top to wider at the base and the hole in the platter slides over it and wedges down on it. To tell you the truth, I'm glad it was on so good because I couldn't tell them how to fix any shipping screws even though I asked that they do so if they were present, but they taped it down pretty darn good. It wasn't going anywhere, but there was some bouncing around on the springs on the way. Was lucky all the way around. However, last night it stated stuttering in speed, with quartz lock on or without. Howard says that a Deoxit treatment of the speed switch/pots will most likely fix. That I have, thus the need to get under the hood. I was itching to open it up anyway. Gonna go poke around in it now. Will post results.
 
Success! :banana::banana::banana: Plays fine now. Cleaned out a little dust (not bad and mostly in the back) and applied Deoxit to the buttons and pitch pot and worked them. Pictures of the innards. Screwdriver pointing out disintegrated rubber spring cover. All were in the same shape. Hopefully, PartsExpress or TurntableExperts will have them. Screwdriver also pointing out the quartz lock switch and the manual pitch pot to the right. One or both of these were the problem.
 

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I have A PL630 that was Reworked by Rich on this site and it is a fantastic table everytime i want to "upgrade" to a new table im brought back to how awesome this table reallly is it blows the doors off of the 300 to 600 dollar offerings that are out there new. I have a V15III and a Ed Saunders swiss replacement sylus i A/B ed to an nos SHURE v35 and it was identical. I have also heard very good things bout the SAS but i like doing biz with ED and also like his prices . I ended up with an AT15SLA (rare quad cart ) and ed had NOS styli for it and i mounted it on the Pioneer WOW so now i have two systems with the swap of a headshell and adjustments. do use a test record though the servo drive is powerful and dead on easy to miss stuff in the setup also the sideforce is stronger than is marked (testrecord again) and can cause premature cantilever "leaning"

I own a PL-630 that was also rebuilt by RichP. It works flawlessly, and the sound with the MA-5100 McIntosh is live!
Great Table.. I will never part with it.

John.:music:
 
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