You owe it to yourself to open it up, making sure you can access the springs from underneath. I used soup cans on the corners and slowly got to know the inner workings. Fun, but make sure you avoid the power wires in there and unplug it while you're hands on.
New Thorens TD 145 Arrived!
- Thread starter bscepter
- Start date
If you ever start adjusting the VTA, be careful - it can affect where the auto stop starts.
bscepter
Active Member
Interesting. Thanks for the heads up.
Today I got to know the tonearm on my TD-145, in addition to tweaking the motor mount azimuth to ensure zero belt contact with the speed changing bracket. On the tonearm, I removed and remounted the rear stub, re-adjusted the horizontal bearing, checked other fittings for tightness, rechecked arm movement related to anti skate, and mounted my Shure V15 Type IV.
In checking the arm pillar for VTA adjustment, I loosened the collar nuts and it took some significant pressure to make the arm pillar slide up and down. I added a touch of sewing machine oil around the pillar with a q-tip so it would slide better. I got it to slide reasonably well up and down almost an inch, not quite. I moved it to its lowest position with just a sliver of silver post showing and retightened, followed by adjustment of the cue ledge height.
All is well and the turntable sounds sublime to me, with a very, very low noise floor and is now running at 33.26 with .08% wow, according to Android RPM and Wow app. 45 year-old motor, quiet as a whisper and smooth running. Amazing to me. However, just as @meggy predicted, the auto stop is not functioning now. As nicely as the turntable is functioning at this point, and with the sound I'm getting, I'm not entirely sure I want to figure out why the auto stop isn't working.
Maybe I can live with what is effectively a TD-160 now! I've spent a good number of hours the last few days getting into this machine and setting it up as well as possible, so I just want to listen for a couple of days. When I decide to look at the auto stop, might it be as simple as a touch higher on the VTA?
In checking the arm pillar for VTA adjustment, I loosened the collar nuts and it took some significant pressure to make the arm pillar slide up and down. I added a touch of sewing machine oil around the pillar with a q-tip so it would slide better. I got it to slide reasonably well up and down almost an inch, not quite. I moved it to its lowest position with just a sliver of silver post showing and retightened, followed by adjustment of the cue ledge height.
All is well and the turntable sounds sublime to me, with a very, very low noise floor and is now running at 33.26 with .08% wow, according to Android RPM and Wow app. 45 year-old motor, quiet as a whisper and smooth running. Amazing to me. However, just as @meggy predicted, the auto stop is not functioning now. As nicely as the turntable is functioning at this point, and with the sound I'm getting, I'm not entirely sure I want to figure out why the auto stop isn't working.
Maybe I can live with what is effectively a TD-160 now! I've spent a good number of hours the last few days getting into this machine and setting it up as well as possible, so I just want to listen for a couple of days. When I decide to look at the auto stop, might it be as simple as a touch higher on the VTA?
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
I'll tell you why, but first, an apology - sort of. I kinda regret encouraging you to pull out the TA in another thread.
It slipped my mind that's a TD-145 you got there, on account of a recent similar thread regarding a TD-160. I messed up and should have warned you about it too. Sorry.
The reason it's ceased to function is because of upsetting the sensitive relationship between the inductance sensor (the thingy with the red wires and mustard capacitor) which is essentially a charged coil on a slide assembly:
and the ceramic magnet piece on the side of that plastic cylinder at the bottom of the tonearm:
The specified distance between the two parts is an astonishing 0.4mm and it's nearly impossible to achieve without a metric leaf gauge.
Not only that, the surface area of the ceramic piece that's exposed to the sensor is critical for the amount of inductance build up - but raising or lowering the tonearm changes it, and upsets the circuitry.
It's difficult to put back together b/c inductance in the coil builds up gradually as the tonearm travels on the record, so trying to emulate it by moving the tonearm manually side to side for testing the auto shutoff function
isn't going to work unless it's a very slow motion. That's why there's a PITA procedure in the SM for by passing this test by measuring voltages at various points in the circuit after supplying it with a specified power supply.
It is still achievable on a trial and error bassis, but it involves adjusting the 0.4mm distance first, enough ceramic magnet area straight across the sensor and moving the tonearm very slowly to the point the relay engages.
When the relay engages - it's end-of-play and then we need to rotate the plastic cylinder back and forth a bit to agree with the end-of-play point of the tonearm. It's not easy, time consuming, a serious PITA but doable.
That is extremely helpful @tnsilver, and I checked the service manual too. The mechanism involved is surprisingly sophisticated but also surprisingly 'critical' isn't it? This is my first foray into vintage turntable mechanisms and I'm impressed at the level of engineering and manufacturing in these machines. However, I'm glad I got back into the hobby with simple, basic manual machines. I might have been scared away as a newcomer if I had so much to tweak on a turntable out of the gate.
I don't regret changing the VTA on this machine because I wanted to get to know the tonearm better, and I prefer the VTA where it is now. I also confirmed that the antiskate is working and I tweaked the horizontal bearing. The machine is absolutely wonderful as I sit here listening. Quiet, smooth, a real gem IMO, 45 years later.
I will probably get into the auto stop mechanism at some point, out of curiosity if nothing else. All of my turntables to now have been manual, so for now I don't particularly miss the auto stop function but it will nag me by its absence.
I don't regret changing the VTA on this machine because I wanted to get to know the tonearm better, and I prefer the VTA where it is now. I also confirmed that the antiskate is working and I tweaked the horizontal bearing. The machine is absolutely wonderful as I sit here listening. Quiet, smooth, a real gem IMO, 45 years later.
I will probably get into the auto stop mechanism at some point, out of curiosity if nothing else. All of my turntables to now have been manual, so for now I don't particularly miss the auto stop function but it will nag me by its absence.
I'll tell you why, but first, an apology - sort of. I kinda regret encouraging you to pull out the TA in another thread.
It slipped my mind that's a TD-145 you got there, on account of a recent similar thread regarding a TD-160. I messed up and should have warned you about it too. Sorry.
The reason it's ceased to function is because of upsetting the sensitive relationship between the inductance sensor (the thingy with the red wires and mustard capacitor) which is essentially a charged coil on a slide assembly:
and the ceramic magnet piece on the side of that plastic cylinder at the bottom of the tonearm:
The specified distance between the two parts is an astonishing 0.4mm and it's nearly impossible to achieve without a metric leaf gauge.
Not only that, the surface area of the ceramic piece that's exposed to the sensor is critical for the amount of inductance build up - but raising or lowering the tonearm changes it, and upsets the circuitry.
It's difficult to put back together b/c inductance in the coil builds up gradually as the tonearm travels on the record, so trying to emulate it by moving the tonearm manually side to side for testing the auto shutoff function
isn't going to work unless it's a very slow motion. That's why there's a PITA procedure in the SM for by passing this test by measuring voltages at various points in the circuit after supplying it with a specified power supply.
It is still achievable on a trial and error bassis, but it involves adjusting the 0.4mm distance first, enough ceramic magnet area straight across the sensor and moving the tonearm very slowly to the point the relay engages.
When the relay engages - it's end-of-play and then we need to rotate the plastic cylinder back and forth a bit to agree with the end-of-play point of the tonearm. It's not easy, time consuming, a serious PITA but doable.
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
yes it is and it's also a central aspect with critics of the TD-145 engineering, of which I agree. IMO it's an amazingly over engineered mechanism relative to the ridiculously simple function it performs. Thorens had achieved similar functionality decades earlier by piecing together lengths of wires and nifty levers with what's known as a mechanical "speed trap" with exactly zero electronics. The introduction of this complicated inductance sensing relay control circuitry not only stands in contrast with the simplicity of the basic TD-160 design, it also involves early (immature) semi-conductors that are prone to failure and to introducing noise and disturbances into the audio signal. I'm sure the original designers did not plan the circuitry to last for 45 years - yet, I'd risk saying that in more than one way this mechanism doesn't become Thorens and what I perceive as it's early design philosophy.
I just got mine in yesterday as well. Unfortunately I couldn't find my strobe disc but the speed shifter works far better than it used to. I didn't actually end up listening to the thing last night. I fell asleep after dinner. I did polish up the rim of the platter though so it looks better.
Finally got a cart for the 165 and did a bit of sample listening and was fairly blown away by the immediacy of the sound, played through an old Rotel receiver and my ADS L520s. A tube pre-amp is on order so I can play it with my Denon power amp, and when winter comes I'll hook up a tube power amp and go whole-hog.
Meanwhile I've been upgrading and cleaning. Here it is with the new lift-off dust cover and polished platter rim! Thanks to the considerable intelligence in this forum I wet-sanded using a 3M 360-grit abrasive pad (rather than sandpaper or steel wool) since the rim didn't look too bad to begin with.
Then I happened to have some 30-year-old Brasso (hence, the old variety) and using it did amplify the shine in an appealing fashion. Went through a lot of paper towels, wadded up and very slightly dampened, and the weird part I can't explain is that they kept coming off black right away no matter how many times I polished. Is that a Brasso thing? No clue here. Very satisfying work anyway.
On order now is the 'Das Plinth' from Budapest. I asked the Moldovans if they'd make one but they said they don't have a template for the 160 series. They're much cheaper but I decided not to wait because it could be forever. Currently debating jazzing the whole thing up further with a red face plate. Most everything I'm doing is reversible should I or a future owner have a change of heart. I'm saving all the original parts.
One obvious thing I did right away is move the TT from my (wobbly) dining room table to the heavy rosewood chest you see it on here. The chest (made by George Zee in Hong Kong) weighs nearly 320 lbs. It's almost like having a concrete stand. But slightly more attractive.
Oh yeah, I have some slick new shock-absorbing feet coming for the new plinth too. This is so much fun.
Meanwhile I've been upgrading and cleaning. Here it is with the new lift-off dust cover and polished platter rim! Thanks to the considerable intelligence in this forum I wet-sanded using a 3M 360-grit abrasive pad (rather than sandpaper or steel wool) since the rim didn't look too bad to begin with.
Then I happened to have some 30-year-old Brasso (hence, the old variety) and using it did amplify the shine in an appealing fashion. Went through a lot of paper towels, wadded up and very slightly dampened, and the weird part I can't explain is that they kept coming off black right away no matter how many times I polished. Is that a Brasso thing? No clue here. Very satisfying work anyway.
On order now is the 'Das Plinth' from Budapest. I asked the Moldovans if they'd make one but they said they don't have a template for the 160 series. They're much cheaper but I decided not to wait because it could be forever. Currently debating jazzing the whole thing up further with a red face plate. Most everything I'm doing is reversible should I or a future owner have a change of heart. I'm saving all the original parts.
One obvious thing I did right away is move the TT from my (wobbly) dining room table to the heavy rosewood chest you see it on here. The chest (made by George Zee in Hong Kong) weighs nearly 320 lbs. It's almost like having a concrete stand. But slightly more attractive.
Oh yeah, I have some slick new shock-absorbing feet coming for the new plinth too. This is so much fun.
DaaDaa
Set the controls for the heart of the pun
wow this is just lovely and I have a pair of wooden horns on order from the Moldovans, their work is great but Das plinth is the absolute best and their products are just about perfect.
Moldovans are more open to doing custom work though, Das plinth does not accept any modifications to their products.
Moldovans are more open to doing custom work though, Das plinth does not accept any modifications to their products.
Thanks, that is all new info for me. Valeria & Co have made speaker enclosures for me and they have been really responsive with respect to special requests. So that makes sense. Glad to hear that Das Plinth have a good rep! They're not cheap. But this TT is my baby ATM and I'm having fun spoiling her.
DaaDaa
Set the controls for the heart of the pun
yeah I prefer thick plinths for turntables, and Das plinth shot me down so fast, told me to not even think about it. but the Moldovans pretty much did whatever idiotic thing i asked for lol
bscepter
Active Member
Beautiful!Finally got a cart for the 165 and did a bit of sample listening and was fairly blown away by the immediacy of the sound, played through an old Rotel receiver and my ADS L520s. A tube pre-amp is on order so I can play it with my Denon power amp, and when winter comes I'll hook up a tube power amp and go whole-hog.
Meanwhile I've been upgrading and cleaning. Here it is with the new lift-off dust cover and polished platter rim! Thanks to the considerable intelligence in this forum I wet-sanded using a 3M 360-grit abrasive pad (rather than sandpaper or steel wool) since the rim didn't look too bad to begin with.
Then I happened to have some 30-year-old Brasso (hence, the old variety) and using it did amplify the shine in an appealing fashion. Went through a lot of paper towels, wadded up and very slightly dampened, and the weird part I can't explain is that they kept coming off black right away no matter how many times I polished. Is that a Brasso thing? No clue here. Very satisfying work anyway.
On order now is the 'Das Plinth' from Budapest. I asked the Moldovans if they'd make one but they said they don't have a template for the 160 series. They're much cheaper but I decided not to wait because it could be forever. Currently debating jazzing the whole thing up further with a red face plate. Most everything I'm doing is reversible should I or a future owner have a change of heart. I'm saving all the original parts.
One obvious thing I did right away is move the TT from my (wobbly) dining room table to the heavy rosewood chest you see it on here. The chest (made by George Zee in Hong Kong) weighs nearly 320 lbs. It's almost like having a concrete stand. But slightly more attractive.
Oh yeah, I have some slick new shock-absorbing feet coming for the new plinth too. This is so much fun.
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
They all have some appealing products but there's also an overly promoted notion of birch being some exotic rarity timber while it's not. FWIW apple, most oaks, walnut, cherry, maple, ash, beech and notably hickory are just some more or less common hardwoods that are at least as dense or denser than birch, which is too often associated with the merits of a good plinth. Any novice hobbyist, let alone any stateside woodworks can make you a TD-160 plinth, which is nothing more than 4 beams, 8 supports and a bottom. Give any of them the plan - I'm sure it'll turn out amazing:
Maple:
Plan:
Yeah thanks--I considered crafting my own since it was easy to see how simple it would be. If I'd had that set of plans it might have tipped the scales in favor of doing so. However the primary issue for me is always getting the surface finish right, and I'm very particular about that. In the past I've been unable to prevent dust from settling on the finish as it's drying, and I just don't have an appropriate 'clean room' for the purpose. Along with the fact that I already have way too many projects underway, this is the principal reason I pay up for the pros to do it for me. Appreciate the graphic though--I'll save it for future reference.
bscepter
Active Member
In the guitar-amp community (which is as susceptible to snake oil as any other), baltic birch plywood has been a stable of cabinet building for 60+ years — at least to get that "British sound." Fender used solid pine for their cabinets. Maybe some of that has spilled over into the audiophile community.