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Non working Valencias, are they worth it?

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I think you may be able to test the speaker functionality with a battery. Use a 1.5 v. battery and connect the leads from the battery to the speaker terminals on the back of the drivers. If the woofers move and the compression drivers put out a buzz or click, you might have good drivers and only need to work on the crossovers. Most folks are rebuilding the crossovers in these older Altecs because of the age of the caps and the results from doing so. If you paid south of $700 for 846a's with good looking cabs you have struck a great bargain. The grill cloth is an inexpensive restoration.
 
I take all viewpoints here for what they are worth: just one man's opinion. Take away what you need and leave the rest behind. As with any restoration it is important to do your homework.

For me I like to be able to undo anything I have done if I want to restore back to original.

*BTW Saint how much did you end up paying for your Valencia's?
 
Zilch, please understand that your blanket disdain for the vintage Altec 2 way sound is NOT shared by everyone.

IMO, it would be a much more ethical approach to at least let the OP first hear Valencias as they were originally equipped and intended to sound.

You have provided this forum and it's members with a wealth of well documented and supported factual information, your generosity and willingness to work with and educate noobs, novices, and even hardcore veterans is appreciated by many, even some of us who may not agree with every approach.

So, hopefully you can understand why it's so distasteful to some of us to have you immediately suggest(or at least strongly imply) major component changes, changes that drastically modify the overall character of the speaker system, to an individual who in all likelihood has never heard Valencia's to begin with, and certainly hasn't had an opportunity to hear the speakers in question in proper working condition.

Zilch, i fully support your right to express your opinions, i just wish in cases like this where an OP is new to Altec you'd give them an opportunity to judge the sound for themselves before you plant seeds of inferiority.
 
Altec Valencias... I liked them so much, I bought them twice. :thmbsp:


What I'm struggling with is the notion of whether or not to bypass the x-over for active and bi-amp.

RC
 
Valencias have certain shortcomings from the factory and understanding that does not make you a bad person, or an "Altec hater".

The OP should have the chance to read every opinion, see all the measurements and make up his own mind on how to proceed.

Well before the big Valencia measurement threads came out, I knew my set was light on low bass and had a high end roll-off. They're still wonderfully enjoyable.

While I'm on the soapbox, here's my summary:

light on bass, but what's present is effortless and "rolling"
high-end roll-off, but your ears kinda get used to it after a few minutes
BIG sound, BIG technicolor "alive" sound with great projection
There's something 'real' about them, in spite of their shortcomings.
 
Uh oh, what have I started??:yes:

:sarcasticly: Please, can we all just get along!!

:seriously though:
Tom, bowtie, spartanmotor, analog, doucanoe, analog, dshoaf, Zilch, et al.
I appreciate all your contributions. And thanks for the encouragement! I do understand that Zilch is just giving his opinion. And it's coming from a different direction. Dissension is good, and welcomed.

I've always wanted to hear big Altecs, and that has never changed. Because as a kid, my first intro to HI-Fi, was from an uncle who went on and on about how they were 'the best money could buy'. Without actually having the money to buy. :scratch2: I was a skeptical, yet opened minded, pre-teen then, as I hope I have remained. So Zilch's opinion is not necessarily going change my view. My view will hopefully stay as skeptical, yet objective as it was then. Or so I'd like to hope.

No thread crapping going on here, Celt. :no:

Still kinda on the fence about passing on a set of M14's, for just about the same money, because it was a 10 mile drive vs. 1 mile drive for the Vals, though. :bash:
 
Saint Johnny said:
Uh oh, what have I started??:yes:

<snip>
Click to expand...

You've started nothing that wasn't already simmering under the surface. Honestly, I don't understand the deep emotions attached to vintage Altec speakers. Or why people come out of the woodwork defending the darn things when someone makes a negative comment about them. Altec speakers can defend themselves.

While the Valencias do have a certain charm about their sound, they, like most other speakers of the era including M19s (and even Advents;)) aren't perfect. IME and technically speaking the Valencias can be improved if one so desires by changing drivers and doing lots of other things like biamping and active xovers etc. etc. etc. At some point real quick, they become something other than Valencias. From my perspective, if for some reason I felt compelled to change LF and HF drivers, redo the box, redesign the xovers and so on, I'd first have to ask myself why? Obviously, unless I want a project (and a project is a legit reason for change IMO), the sound wasn't my cup of tea to start and I need to look elsewhere for satisfaction. FWIW, I have a pair of the early, 16 ohm Valencias in my dining area. I power them with a Fisher 500C. I find the sound is much improved with the loudness control engaged...to the point that apart from xover rebuild (stock values) I see no need to change anything on these for continued enjoyment. Depending on what you're really looking for, I think you can derive lots of enjoyment form a relatively stock set too. Should they end up not satisfying, they're an easy flip.

Saint Johnny said:
<snip>
Still kinda on the fence about passing on a set of M14's, for just about the same money, because it was a 10 mile drive vs. 1 mile drive for the Vals, though. :bash:
Click to expand...

If I had the opportunity you have, I know what I'd do...go for both. You can always sell the one that satisfies least.
 
"go for both"
My thoughts entirely.
Saint Johnny,
Even Zilch would agree that you could fix your stock Valencias,live with them,and if you didn't like them,sell them for more than you paid or at least break-even.
You have an alternative path to follow should you not like their sound.
What all the graphs in the world won't tell you is how they sound.We've heard some opinions here on this thread.
"ALIVE"
"real
"BIG"
"the best there is"(your Uncle)
Yep.They are all talking about those same speakers which measure horribly.So what are they hearing?What are their Ears/Brains(Very sophisticated tools)responding too.
There must be a 'Quality' which is being perceived(as opposed to imagined)and responded to.
Listen to them,let yourself be the judge.
I've listened to very expensive systems which don't even approach the insight into the musical intent/detail/emotional connection that my Valencias provide me with on the end of my system.
Every time I make an improvement to the system's overall capability the Vals thank me by making it abundantly obvious.
That's the 'action/reward' situation which makes me enthusiast about these speakers.
 
The vocal presence on the 16-ohm Valencias I have is as "there" as my Quad ESL-57s. What more could you reasonably ask for? :-)

The magic of these is in the drivers and that big horn. The boxes are ephemera. Indeed, word on the street is that Heathkit (and maybe others as well) built better boxes for 'em than Altec did.

Alternatively, grab a pair of A-5s or A-7s and be done with it :-)
 
Now isn't that interesting?
A Quad ESL owner praising the Valencias.:scratch2:
Matter of fact,it's the second time in this thread,that the man has spoken-up on the subject.
I'll bet he hasn't heard many speakers that he'd compare to the Quads.:no:
The Quads were voted as 'The Most Influential' Hi-Fi component of all time by the English mag Hi-Fi News.
So mhardy,please tell us what else about the Valencias you like?
 
Celt said:
Ah yes, the thread-crapping has begun. Won't be long before I get out my Magic Eraser.
Click to expand...
Geez, I surely hope not. :dunno:

OP has acquired a pair of presumably non-working Altec Valencias, and asked for guidance as to how to proceed, in which case an obvious question comes to the fore: "Shall I make the requisite investment in restoring these to original configuration and performance, or are there other options worthy of consideration?"

I'm putting forth some other options, and am certainly conscious of the sensibilities of those for whom there can BE no alternatives other than what they perceive as a "correct" restoration to vintage Altec.

There are at least a half-dozen AK members actively working on Valencia and equivalent projects I know of right now, and one has made an appointment to audition the proposal I outlined just above this weekend.

I don't consider it "crapping" when we're actually doing stuff and documenting it here, and I further observe that, despite the furor, even the most diehard advocates of the conservationist approach seem to be benefiting from the exercise as well.... :yes:
 
Uhmm Quad ESL's?
Now there's a thought.....:drool:


Well the Vals are now in my possession.
But too big to get into my apartment by myself.:tears:

How much are phrams, anyway?
Are there various versions from which to choose?
Would a bad phram render the driver completely silent?

I'd really like to A/B the Vals against my Bozak 302's.
 
I've had the diaphragms on my Vals crap-out and they rendered the compression driver unusable/silent.
The way to tell which diaphragm you'll need is to see which 806 you have,then look-up the list at the GPA website.
The Aluminium ones are supposed to sound better,the Pascalite diaphragms are for higher power handling requirements.
 
sometimes the faulty phragms can be repaired if it's just a broken lead in conductor, no guarantees on the longevity of a repair, but there are indeed members out there with repaired phragms still singing nicely.

"Correct" phragms from GPA are in the 100 dollar neighborhood, and can include a free recharge, cleaning and inspection if you ship your drivers to them.

Aftermarket phragms can be had for 35 and up with results varying from very poor to "pretty close" IMO, but there's onl;y one source for phragms that sound like the originals and that's GPA.
 
doucanoe said:
What I'm struggling with is the notion of whether or not to bypass the x-over for active and bi-amp.
Click to expand...
There's compensation built into the passive crossovers. The low- and hi-pass filter are not textbook complimentary; the HF begins rolling off much higher than 800 Hz so as to knock down the midrange response of the HF driver (not enough, tho).

SO, if you're going to active biamp, you need to address the compensation issue. Theo suggests that that built-in boost in some active crossovers may work. I have the same Behringer crossover he has, so I can try that, maybe. In a previous investigation I made of various active crossovers, I found that different manufacturers had different ideas of what comprises an optimum compression driver equalization curve, which varies with each driver/horn combination, of course.

[I'm saying it's a crap shoot.... :yes: ]
 
Zilch,
I'd be interested in seeing the CD Horn compensation on the Behringer 3410 measured by you when applied to the Valencia.
Behringer detail in the manual just what effect the compensation takes.
I've got the best effect on mine by using a 3K Hz turnover 6dB boost from the Kenwood 700C,which uses proper passive filters for it's tone controls(a very,very rare thing indeed).
I've tried the Behringer's CD Horn equalisation setting but didn't like what it did.
I might revisit it one day,but I'm happy where it is at the moment.
I will buy a BMS driver one day just to see what it is capable of.I've always been of the opinion that I believe the evidence of my own ears over anyone else's recommendation,but I use other's recommendation to select what I buy and audition,so the BMSs will have their day in the Valencias.:yes:
This method has enabled me to eventuallyput together a very satisfying system indeed,and that is why I praise the Altecs because they were the first element,and therefore the means by which I evaluated the overall merit of the other components.
Now lest anyone read into that,that the only merit I was looking for was a complementary match with the Valencias,you'd be wrong.
I'm a very fussy listener and I wanted something which does it all.
The best compromise in fact is exactly what the Valencias do.They bandwidth limit.
Otherwise they are some of the best sounding speakers you could ever lay your ears on.
 
Both??:scratch2:
The Model 14's were sold, immediately after I hesitated. I kinda figured they wouldn't last long, though. And I really do NOT NEED anymore speakers. I still have to find a place to fit the Vals.
 
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