Ohm Sound Cylinders - HELP!

[frommerstop]

At least it looks like the surround is OK. My Sound Cylinders are on loan to my sister, so I can't look at them for reference, but if the can is like those on the 2s, then you should be able to remove the top "cap" only. Of course that will mean damaging the cloth covering, but I think that may be the easiest way in. If you tear up the can too much, at least you can get a new one for $35, and once you have the top off, you should be able to see what's going on, so...

 

[Ohighway]

Well, it appears the problem is..... it isn't anything like the 2.
Whereas the 2 used a perforated metal can mounted to the woofer frame, it appears the sound cylinder uses a plastic base with the woofer mounted offset in it. Unfortunately without having one in hand I can't really advise on how to open it.

At least it looks like the surround is OK. My Sound Cylinders are on loan to my sister, so I can't look at them for reference, but if the can is like those on the 2s, then you should be able to remove the top "cap" only. Of course that will mean damaging the cloth covering, but I think that may be the easiest way in. If you tear up the can too much, at least you can get a new one for $35, and once you have the top off, you should be able to see what's going on, so...

 

[mccarty350]

Yeah basically at this stage I'm going to try very very hard to remove the metal from the base working my way around and failing that plunk down the $45 bucks and ship it off to Ohm and see what a real Ohm sounds like. I'm sad but hell, $200 bucks in to hear it...why not. I probably won't get my money back if I want to sell it but I'll probably get 100-150 or so so it won't be too bad. But here's to hoping I want to keep it!

 

[Ohighway]

How is that woofer held in the plastic structure. That might be a way in..... rather than messing with the screen.

Don't forget BTW that is $45. x 2 because they won't agree to fix just one.

 

[mccarty350]

Believe it or not John agreed to fix just one. Maybe they're lightening up. There is no basket to remove...insanely enough the woofer is affixed/glued directly to the plastic. Crazy right? No screws or removable items on the bottom.

 

[Ohighway]

Believe it or not John agreed to fix just one. Maybe they're lightening up.

Certainly sounds like it, ....or finally smartening up a bit.

There is no basket to remove...insanely enough the woofer is affixed/glued directly to the plastic. Crazy right? No screws or removable items on the bottom.

Yeah, that type of nonsense just confirms my suspicions of them deliberately making things inaccessible so as to force people to get repairs through them only. Could have easily been designed so that 4 screws held the woofer to the base allowing easy access for servicing.

No way to run a railroad IMO.

 

[mccarty350]

Agreed, I did take a somewhat accusatory stance and say that if it's too much trouble I'm going to part them out and that there was a lot of public resentment of them being designed to deliberately stop people from working on them. I said straight off that if it's not cheap enough I'm done and I'm going to sell off the operative can and be done with the whole concept.

You are totally correct, no screws and no seams that I can find in the design. I'm not a pro but I've refoamed well over a dozen speakers and recapped equally as many so I'm competent enough to do some soldering and rudimentary work. Seriously, the woofer is glued straight to the plastic, no basket! I concur wholly!!

 

[sealy]

Most of the upgrade or repair costs on Ohm speakers is due to the sonic mirror imaging that the speakers go through after upgrade/repair. This process is exacting and time consuming but required if you want your speakers to sound in sync and balanced. That's why both speakers are required by Ohm for any of these services.

I don't know if that is a valid reason for the ridiculous prices. There must be big money in repairing vintage Ohm speakers, that is if customers are gullible enough to actually pay for Ohm to do the repairs. Perhaps it's the fact that Ohm is mad because their manufacturing "techniques" have been exposed. After all, hot-gluing everything instead of screwing or bolting drivers in place? Or calling an ordinary woofer a "Walsh Radiator" simply because it's been inverted? Pardon me while I gag. Must be very embarrassing for them to finally be found out.

 

[Ohighway]

Agreed, I did take a somewhat accusatory stance and say that if it's too much trouble I'm going to part them out and that there was a lot of public resentment of them being designed to deliberately stop people from working on them. I said straight off that if it's not cheap enough I'm done and I'm going to sell off the operative can and be done with the whole concept.

You are totally correct, no screws and no seams that I can find in the design. I'm not a pro but I've refoamed well over a dozen speakers and recapped equally as many so I'm competent enough to do some soldering and rudimentary work. Seriously, the woofer is glued straight to the plastic, no basket! I concur wholly!!

Well, it really is a shame as I think the entire line of speakers utilize normal components assembled in a clever manner..... and as a result the 'whole' exceeds the sum of it's parts. I love my Walsh 5's, and really like the 2's also. I'll likely never get rid of them.

A much better approach IMO would be to offer rebuild and upgrade services for those who choose not to undertake the task themselves (no matter what the reason) and can afford to go that route. However, assemble the damn things so they are serviceable, quit trying to hold customers hostage to the 'my way or the highway' concept of servicing, and offer up replacement parts for those who are comfortable with DIY.

I'll never forget in a conversation with John S. he mentioned that 'well if people have been in there before you don't know what they might have installed'. Yeah John...... that's true, really..... because you won't give them a f*cking clue as to what the parts are nor will you sell parts to them. So I guess that forces them to fend for themselves as best they can.

 

[theoman]

I sent my 15's to John at OHM and he did a terrific job on them! the new cover are worth it. because they have to be sewn together. here's a picture of my 2's

 

[theoman]

I'll never forget in a conversation with John S. he mentioned that 'well if people have been in there before you don't know what they might have installed'. Yeah John...... that's true, really..... because you won't give them a f*cking clue as to what the parts are nor will you sell parts to them. So I guess that forces them to fend for themselves as best they can.

That's why he's still in business and I don't think its been easy! try getting a wiring diagram from Jolida!

 

[mccarty350]

Theoman, first off...beautiful 2's! Wish I had those instead of my cylinders

Second, yeah, I do have some empathy for an american company that's made a nice product and a president that still gets involved. No matter how pissed I was I did have respect for John for making a cool product.

On the other side I refuse to purchase or use an apple product, I am not going to give my money to a company that forces people to have their product professionally serviced to change a f*cking battery and that's the same tact that Ohm has taken. 90% of the populace that has the money to buy their new products at the high prices is going to have it serviced by Ohm. Us vintage folks that like to DIY and fix our own gear should at least get a hand. Frustrating. I'm in the middle...he's giving an AK discount and is servicing one of my cans and replacing the grill cloth which I destroyed to get into it for $45. In my mind that's more than reasonable. I can't say I appreciate the manufacturing techniques that are deliberately hindering my ability to service the secondary used market product nor am I happy that I can't replace the existing clip terminals (that fall apart) easily with 5 way binding posts because the clips have metal slivers on the back that slide into a groove in the cabinet that make replacing them horrific. I'll find a way around it but still...and in any case, why the F*CK don't all speakers have 5 way binding posts they're literally a couple bucks! Spring clips are ridiculous!!!

My rant is over. In the end I'm neutral...John was a nice guy to talk to and he's doing me right. On the other side I don't agree with the stance or manufacturing process. I still want to hear some Ohms!

Damn that pitiful audiophile disease...

John

 

[sealy]

Well, I remember my Ohm F's fondly. Along with the models A and G, the F's were the only true Walsh drivers. Completely handmade. Because they were handmade, each speaker off the line had slightly different response characteristics. Ohm technicians took the time to match as closely as possible the speakers that had nearly identical characteristics. Talk about dedication to building the best possible product! How times have changed. Now it's all about making speakers that will maximize profit margins. I'd be very interested to see how much Ohm spends on the components in their current "Walsh" series.

 

[frommerstop]

In fairness to OHM, the Sound Cylinder line, were a latter attempt to lower production costs enough to continue selling through the "big box" stores (like Fry, ABC, Macy's etc.). Ultimatly, it didn't work, and that's when they pulled all dealer sales, and went with the "direct marketing" approach. Gluing the drivers directly to molded plastic mounts that capped a section of concrete form tubing, & wrapping them in wood grain vinyl (they even offering custom cloth "socks" from your own supplied fabric) were all ways to try and keep making the Walsh design speakers at a price that would work for those big stores while leaving enough margin for the company to survive. Most speaker manufacturers don't look at service 20+ years out on a low/mid level product... ever try and "service" a DCM?
The bottom line is, they were built down to the lowest price Ohm could make them, and still sound good enough to preserve their brand... and I think they succeeded admirably.

As for what Ohm charges, I agree the "trade in allowance", and "Upgrade path" are expensive - I'd even say over priced, but that's a personal call, but their service prices are quite reasonable, and they say right on their website, that they only need both drivers to make sure they are voiced the same... there is no requirement to have both speakers "upgraded", or even serviced, unless they both have problems. Have you ever had a SoundLab speaker serviced? I have, and it's not pretty. They will do anything you want, as long as they agree, and you pay, and cover shipping (both ways), and the parts are still available...
McIntosh are similar, if you're not a "certified McIntosh service facility" you'll have a hard time getting info, let alone parts.
I understand it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it!

PS. Sorry for the run on sentences.
I think I'm getting tired... as Popeye would say "My train of thought got derailed"

 

[mccarty350]

Sealy, why did you ditch your ohm F's? I hear they were legendary. I wouldn't know any better however seeing as I don't have a pair of functioning ohm's yet!

Indeed, John admitted as much but said that it was an ode to salesman that didn't know sh*t about placement as you could place the ohm's virtually anywhere and get good sound due to their characteristics. I get your point, these sound cylinders were definitely low end but are purported to sound damn good despite their cheap ass manufacturing techniques but it sounds like they carried the inability to perform maintenance aspect to their higher lines as well. I have NOT tried to service any DCM products but have heard that getting the socks off was a total bitch to do.

What can I say, I'm still pretty excited to hear them

I'm guessing I'll need some form of subwoofer supplementation but the mids and highs should still be good, is that an accurate assumption?

 

[sealy]

Didn't ditch them, per se. The guy that sold them to me, wanted them back. He had two pairs that he was re-foaming and sold me a pair that he had finished. When he completed the second pair, he found that one of the drivers was falling apart to the point where it was unrepairable. I don't know why he didn't notice this when he re-foamed them. He bothered me for a month about getting the other pair back. I finally acquiesced and sold them back for what I paid. Since he was an acquaintance, I didn't have the heart to sell them to him for a profit. Another pair will come along one day, I'm sure.

 

[Ohighway]

I'll never forget in a conversation with John S. he mentioned that 'well if people have been in there before you don't know what they might have installed'. Yeah John...... that's true, really..... because you won't give them a f*cking clue as to what the parts are nor will you sell parts to them. So I guess that forces them to fend for themselves as best they can.

That's why he's still in business ........ try getting a wiring diagram from Jolida!

Seriously? What kind of argument is that? Denying customers information and replacement parts is a model for staying in business? :screwy:

So tell me then, how do companies who design for serviceability, clearly mark their parts, sell replacement parts, and have schematics readily available...... how do those guys stay in business? They exist. But according to your argument.... they can't.

I'm guessing I'll need some form of subwoofer supplementation but the mids and highs should still be good, is that an accurate assumption?

Maybe, maybe not. Listen and then you can decide. I know with my Walsh 2 they never seemed to lack for bass response. Make that doubly so for the Walsh 5. Definitely no subwoofer needed. Given the circumstances, send your driver in, get the repair, and get to listening. Hopefully you'll like what you hear. If the cylinders are in any way like the W2 and W5 you should be in for a treat. Enjoy.

 

[mccarty350]

Ohighway...it's Apple's business model and somehow they are highly profitable by not allowing their customers to do sh*t to any of their hardware and have even changed industry standard interfaces recently (hard drives) to proprietary to keep customers from buying aftermarket replacements or servicing their own devices, forcing them to deal with a 'Genius' rather than work on things themselves. I despise that mentality but just saying, somehow it works for them and they somehow retain the ability to market themselves as hip and progressive while they take advantage of their customers.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to bitch about Apple

In any case I will get my driver in, it's all boxed up. John claims that it should have slightly better sound than a Walsh 2 because he had made some improvements in the cylinders but regardless of that or if it's even remotely true...would rather have a 2 a thousand times over.

I'll send it in and report back, I'm pretty damned excited. I'm showing this thing should be in the low 30hz if the specs aren't exaggerated...hell my AR98's only supposedly hit 39. This should be crazy.

 

[frommerstop]

I didn't mean to imply the Cylinders were not good sounding speakers, on the contrary, I was trying to explain how Ohm had done such a good job of making them less expensive without sacrificing sound quality.
My "Sound Cylinder Smalls" sound almost exactly like Walsh 1s, which is to say very good! The Ones sound really close to the Twos, slightly less low bass than, but your "Sound Cylinder Talls" should have a bit more Low frequency output than my shorter pair... may be very similar the the 2s. I have used a sub with the 2s, but it's not really necessary.

 

[mccarty350]

The height is 44" tall which John believes is an SCT+, something between the Pro200 and Pro250 although again, no model numbers or information to make me be sure but he did state the same, even though cheap materials were used and people weren't pleased because it was not real wood the design was valid and the round cylinder with the rigid lead insert reduced resonances and was slightly superior in sound. We'll see