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Ongoing saga of the Yamaha CR-n40s

I would need to look at the schematic (it is downstairs and not handy) to get an idea regarding the power module. The protection circuit looks at the output rail so if you remove the power amp module and the relay clicks in all that means is the module is toast. It does not let the pre-driver off the hook. If I get a chance I will try out the one I mad up and see if I get DC on 13 and 14, if I do it means I screwed up somewhere.
 
Rob, the pics on this thread are gone, do you still have them that they can be re-attached?

Russ
 
I think Rob/merrylander mentioned in another thread some time ago that he had to delete a number of photos/attachments in order to meet a Board software imposed maximum. Hopefully he still has them and can forward them direct.
Maybe we also can appeal to Moderator/Administrator to have his limit raised on an exceptional basis, if possible...
 
Russ,

I think I have saved most of the important pictures from this thread in the event this sort of thing might happen. I'll check when I'm home later today and send a pm if I have them. Are you planning to pick up this effort and see if you can build a workable pre-driver replacement? Other projects preempted my try at it.

John
 
Russ,

I think I have saved most of the important pictures from this thread in the event this sort of thing might happen. I'll check when I'm home later today and send a pm if I have them. Are you planning to pick up this effort and see if you can build a workable pre-driver replacement? Other projects preempted my try at it.

John

My request was primarily related to sending another user to this bookmarked thread.
 
I can re-attach later as they are all on the shop PC. About three or four months back I was contacted (forget hisname) by an AK member who has all the facilities (Gerber files, etc.) and I sent him everything I have. I thought he was going to set up for producing these pre-drivers but I have neverheard back. I have a single sided PC board pattern and had planned on etching a few for test purposes. Just never got around to it. Between having the cable guy in to replace a splitter that apparently took a lightning hit and plumbers replacing the hot water tank that decided to leak after 9 years it has been a less than stellar week.
 
Here is the schematic and parts list as well as the layout of the PC board. Note that transistors 1, 2, 9, 10, 11 & 12 are mounted with their leads in a horizontal plane all others in a vertical plane. Caps C1, C2, and C3 are in pico farads.
 
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Here is the schematic and parts list as well as the layout of the PC board. Note that transistors 1, 2, 9, 10, 11 & 12 are mounted with their leads in a horizontal plane all others in a vertical plane. Caps C1, C2, and C3 are in pico farads.

Thanks, you're a true gem Rob.
 
Just remember that thew schematic was taken from a broken pre-driver that I cut the cover away. It was also derived from the original Sanyo circuit that Yamaha modified to add a feedback circuit. It has never been built nor tested so no warranty express or implied.

One other point, where it says J on the board picture those are bare wire jumpers on the opposite side from the foil.
 
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A huge favor

Probably not but I do have an R-2000 sitting on the shelf that needs the STK3156 but I think the power X module is OK.

Hello merrylander,

Would you be able to get a pic of that power amp board in that R2000 you got. I pulled the driver transistors off both boards on mine and am not sure where which one goes. The little ones that are fitted to the heat sink.

As an aside, would you rebuild 1 power amp board if I sent you just that board.

Also you said stk3156 - I thought it had a 3056, and the upgrade is a 3106. is a 3156 also compatible ? what advantage/disadvantage on that over the 3056/3106 ?

Thanks so much.
Srinath.
 
Ok I have another idea, this time it may be simply sacrilege though.

The R2000 power amp has 6 wires, presumably 2 for line level signal, 1-2 for feedback, 2 for amped output signal. Then there is the 2 other wires for B+. 8 per power amp section.

OK then, It has a 160 watt rating which is the output from the power amp.

How about I find a 8 pin power amp stk module, something that uses the same B+, them make my own wiring pigtail to plug into the stk and into the B+ and the signal 6 pack. The real trick would be to get the 160 watt module ... as well as just wiring it all up too. Of course a lot of wiring diagram diagnosis needed.

Any thought ? Is it indeed sacrilege ?
Cool.
Srinath.
 
Sacrilege you say. You're kidding! Yamaha already sold their soul to the devil when they started to use STKs in their products.
 
I like the stk fitted yammies. The R500 is just about head to head wiht my 2220 marantz. I guess I like em bright ... cos the 50 series pioneer, the cr yammies etc etc sound a little soft and dull to me.

I also like the ease of trouble shooting the stk fitted amp. Somehting oes wrong, its the stk, de solder 1 piece and swap 1 piece, not test 20 little buggers desolder 20 of em, forget which went where cos they all are so tiny and then work on getting em back it wiht out burning or solder bridgeing them.

So ... is there an stk that will do that 150+ watt and has the 8 pin connection ?

Cool.
Srinath.
 
I cannot find anything bigger than an stk0080 which is 80 watts, definetly not worth doing that I think.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
need a volunteer to test a pre-driver board design

Hi, Yamaha fans,

Hope this thread isn't too ancient to pick up again. I thought it was the right place for this.

I've done a PCB design for a drop-in IG02930 replacement, based largely on merrylander's research. I did the design for my own use in restoring a couple of CR-1040s, and for fun. I'd like to both make the board layout available for free, and eventually sell a few finished boards to help offset the entertainment cost. But first, I'd like to find a volunteeer to be a "beta tester" - to take one of the finished boards and test it independently.

If you volunteer, what I propose is to send you a finished module for your use in repairing a CR-1040 (or CR-840 - the same board should work fine there). There would be no cost to you, and the board would be yours to keep. The only obligation is that you let me know how it works for you.

There are a few requirements: you need an address where the USPS can deliver; a CR-1040 (CR-1040) with a known bad IG02930 (IG02940); and enough experience with this sort of repair that you'll have no trouble DIYing it. In particular, you'll need to be able to remove the bad part, install the new board, verify whether the receiver is working properly after replacement, and do the DC offset adjustment that's a normal part of this repair.

If you can be the volunteer, send me email with your USPS address. I'm only offering one board, so if there are several volunteers, I reserve the right to pick one. If you like, include a brief note in the email telling me a little about your repair - I'll use that to pick a volunteer if necessary. It would be particularly relevant to discuss how you'll make sure there are no problems elsewhere, like with the power output module and its associated emitter resistors.

Let me say a little about the board design. I'll try to include a picture, which will show that the board is about the same width as an IG02930, but quite a bit taller - there's plenty of room in that direction.

The amplification section of the board is faithful to merrylander's
schematic, and I've verified that it duplicates the original IG02930's
open-loop gain and bandwidth. (The board you will receive has been tested for those parameters, as well as DC offset.)

The other section of the board has the function of limiting current in the power amplifier's output stage. I'm suspicious of this part of the design, given that output module and emitter resistor failures are releatively frequent in Yamahas. I've modified it a bit, mostly copying from Marantz SR-6000DC. That Marantz model had a very similar power amplifier design to the Yamahas, but as far as I can tell isn't so prone to output problems. The modified circuit limits the current at the same level as the original, but is notably faster-acting. Its speed is set by on-board capacitors, rather than the ones on the Yamaha main circuit board.

Components were chosen from contemporary sources with good availability. Semiconductors are from the Fairchild line. Attention has been paid to thermal coupling for matched transistor pairs, and thermal dissipation for parts that generate appreciable heat.

(Edit: removed my direct email address. Only about a decade later. Guess it was never a problem to begin with, but times being what they are, I figure I'd better tighten things up. Anyone looking for Merrylander's schematic can find it in the media section of my profile pages here.)
 

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I have a non-working 840... I can move it to the front of the line, and see if indeed the problem is the pre-driver. I will be back home and able to do that Wednesday or Thursday...
I'd love to help out! Of course, USA - CAN shipping is a PITA, I do have options in Michigan though that we use frequently. (probably too frequently, but hey)
I'm a self proclaimed yamaha addict, and if your board works out I'd love to help out producing more of them. :D
You say there are some on-board caps doing the job of the main-board mounted ones... do I need to do any bypassing or anything?
I also have an 840 that had a working amplifier section when I took it apart (i mean, COMPLETELY apart), and a working 1040. We could also test in one of those if needed - as long as I'm reasonably sure it isn't going to blow anything up in them and turn my good ones into doorstops.

if nothing else, your board is a work of art sir!! :yes:
 
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Ok... I've tested my non-working CR-840, and I think we have a good test bed candidate. It starts up just fine on a dim-bulb with no shorts, but will not come out of protection. I checked voltages on the pre-driver pins, and found about 40v on pin 15 of both. However, the left channel predriver has -20v on pin 14, -34v on pin 13. I would classify that as "high DC," indicating a dead unit. The driver for the right channel tests around +3v for each of those pins.

FWIW, the TP-L also shows 35v DC, TP-R is around 175mv. Obviously the right side needs adjustment, but the 35v on TP-L confirms high DC where it shouldn't be, which is why the relay won't close...

So there you go... certainly looks like the culprit is the pre-driver chip. I'll check a few other things (resistors at the power amp chips etc) to make sure nothing else is out in the meantime... but one way or the other I'd like to try one of your custom boards!
 
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Hi, 4seatPilot, sorry to be slow to get back on the case - I haven't found that eighth day, either...

If I've read correctly, on the 840's bad channel you're seeing highly negative voltages at both output pins of the pre-driver module, but a high positive voltage at the offset test point (which is the power amp output). If that's so, it's pretty certain that the output module is bad.

I don't think there's enough evidence to theorize about whether the pre-driver, or the emitter resistors, are bad. You can check the latter by measuring resistance between pins 8 & 11 of the pre-driver (with the receiver disconnected from power, or at least switched off) - the resistance between those two pins should only be about one ohm.

When I'm faced with a bad output module, but I want to check whether the pre-driver is still good, I usually do this: Remove the output module. Tack-solder in a couple of resistors from each of the pre-driver pins 13 & 14 to the output point of the power amplifier (at the offset test point, for example). The tacked-in resistors would be a few hundred ohms - exact value isn't too critical, but both the same value. Then I'd run the receiver with the dim-bulb setup, and see whether the DC offset voltage is close to zero, with symmetrical + and - voltages at pre-driver pins 13 & 14. If so, the pre-driver is probably good. You can even do a listening test, using headphones and low volume settings, to make sure the pre-driver is doing its job.

Cheers,

chazix
 
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