The different sizes and shapes (what I commonly refer to as the cult of the narrow baffle) represent different design trade-offs. Each require different crossover points and sometimes significant amounts of EQ below the baffle's dipole hump. There are excellent sounding examples for all of these trade-offs. Some people take a fanatical position that there trade-off is the best and only true dipole speaker (the narrow baffle people in particular). It is no different from box loaded speakers, sealed or bass reflex or TL or horns each has their own vocal advocates and represent different design trade-offs. Some sound good and some do not, but try telling a new mother that her child is not the best in the world.
Open Baffle Epiphany!
- Thread starter cptnCanada
- Start date
The different sizes and shapes (what I commonly refer to as the cult of the narrow baffle) represent different design trade-offs. Each require different crossover points and sometimes significant amounts of EQ below the baffle's dipole hump. There are excellent sounding examples for all of these trade-offs. Some people take a fanatical position that there trade-off is the best and only true dipole speaker (the narrow baffle people in particular). It is no different from box loaded speakers, sealed or bass reflex or TL or horns each has their own vocal advocates and represent different design trade-offs. Some sound good and some do not, but try telling a new mother that her child is not the best in the world.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
MJK,
So would you agree with Linkwtiz that it's hard to screw up an open baffle speaker to where it sounds worse than a box speaker?
So would you agree with Linkwtiz that it's hard to screw up an open baffle speaker to where it sounds worse than a box speaker?
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You can screw up an OB speaker, but maybe it is easier to correct with an active crossover. If you mess up the alignment in a boxed speaker the bass is going to be boomy or non existent depending on which way things go, maybe not so easy to fix. In both an OB and a boxed speaker where a crossover is required they are equally easy to screw up.
Remember Linkwitz represents one of the design trade-offs, narrow baffles requiring a three or four way design with active crossovers and heavy EQ. The stated benefit to his approach is a perfect figure "8" radiation pattern. His approach is different from the wider baffle designs with offset drivers typically seen in this thread. Not right or wrong, just different sets of trade-offs.
MWalt
Super Member
I doubt that would be an issue as long as the sub can keep up with the speed and attack of the mains.
OB bass is interestingly different. Once you've lived with it for a while, you can usually identify a different character anytime you're back around a boxed affair.
To mate a seperate sub down low is possible, but like all subs, it's not necessarily easy. The open sound of the higher bass may stand out if what you augment with is too boomy or has a "slow" sound to it.
Sealed bass, IMHO, can do it. It's up to you if what you have to work with feels like it fits or not to your ear. But it takes quite an effort to get very low with OB and something augmenting the really low shouldn't be shunned if the music you listen to has that. Or it's important to you.
EV3
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
I'm starting to believe many who complain about "slow bass" are simply hearing one of the limitations of a single sub or the limitations of limited placement options for multiples (though the design can contribute to response/speed as well). I had a pair of sealed subs flanking some Maggies and thought they were doing a pretty good job integrating until I built some H-frames and paired those with the Maggies. All of a sudden the sealed subs seemed clumsy and the H-frames spritely and "on it". Those same sealed subs are now placed on my rear wall as part of a four sub unit distributed bass system and are right there, step for step, with my Altec 19's....which I think have great speed in the mid and upper bass region.
I like OB bass and am fixing to dive back in with four AE IB15's to explore the concept further, but I'm not about to jump on the "boxed subs are all slow" bandwagon. You get enough good ones working together to combat the room's influence and they can break their chains.
I like OB bass and am fixing to dive back in with four AE IB15's to explore the concept further, but I'm not about to jump on the "boxed subs are all slow" bandwagon. You get enough good ones working together to combat the room's influence and they can break their chains.
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
So that means a guy like me slaps it in the baffle with a little offset, measures and starts asking guys like you for help.
So that means a guy like me slaps it in the baffle with a little offset, measures and starts asking guys like you for help.
Whatever works ...... a good final result is all that matters.
etet
FNG
Wild Burros, Pigs, Chickens, OB's and a King....
Hey guys, great thread so far so I guess I'll join in. I'm thinking of trying an OB using a old Magnavox 15" out of a S073 speaker along with a 7" full range driver oul of an old Magnavox 6bq5 tube record player. Probably an H frame for the 15" and panel for the 7". I will probably order the Behringer CX2310.
If it works out I will go with some quality drivers, I am just not happy with box speakers anymore and looking for something different.
My one issue is that I will not be able to get as far from the front wall as most folks here have recommended. I have only 20 or so inches from the front wall and 24 inches between the side wall and an 8' desk on a 12' walls to work with. An way to make this work?
Hey guys, great thread so far so I guess I'll join in. I'm thinking of trying an OB using a old Magnavox 15" out of a S073 speaker along with a 7" full range driver oul of an old Magnavox 6bq5 tube record player. Probably an H frame for the 15" and panel for the 7". I will probably order the Behringer CX2310.
If it works out I will go with some quality drivers, I am just not happy with box speakers anymore and looking for something different.
My one issue is that I will not be able to get as far from the front wall as most folks here have recommended. I have only 20 or so inches from the front wall and 24 inches between the side wall and an 8' desk on a 12' walls to work with. An way to make this work?
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I would answer that it won't be "broken" or anything at that distance. But it also won't image near as well as it would out further.
Make some baffles, even if cardboard, and listen and see what you think. Pull them out temporarily and listen to the difference and see what it sounds like to you in your room. Your listening habits might not be to sit in the sweet spot and so imaging may not matter so much for you for instance.
Those sound like some fun drivers to listen to for a first go in any case. Try to get that 7" up to a height where the center is at ear height and then play around and listen!
Make some baffles, even if cardboard, and listen and see what you think. Pull them out temporarily and listen to the difference and see what it sounds like to you in your room. Your listening habits might not be to sit in the sweet spot and so imaging may not matter so much for you for instance.
Those sound like some fun drivers to listen to for a first go in any case. Try to get that 7" up to a height where the center is at ear height and then play around and listen!
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
Yeah, I know....not optimum. But I got an incredible deal on these (like, not much more than new Alpha 15's....and I believe a wise man once said never pass up a working AE driver for just a little more than the cost of an Eminence) so Im gonna try 'em out. There are a few out there doing OB duty rather successfully, so Im gonna see what they'll do. If they don't do so hot I'll try 'em in something else, maybe a few ripole subs.
- Michael
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grafxdesin
Super Member
After my first giant folding wing OB's ( with the Betsy single drivers ) I built these which also use the Betsy plus Eminence Alphas.
That's when I got real serious with this whole open baffle thing. So serous I couldn't justify the Omens any longer which to me didn't sound as good. I sold the Zu's cause they were collecting dust.
The Betsy/Alpha is a simple build with just a piece of flat plywood. I ran the Betsy's full tilt with a Miniwatt SET and a Dayton amp with built in crossover to drive the Alphas. This picture shows a low pass crossover used to filter out the HF which allows use of any 50 watt or higher ss amp. This OB is based on MJK's with a few changes.
Poultry, how many watts was your Dayton amp you used to drive the Alphas? I am looking to basically build these same OB's but us Goldwood GW-410D 10" instead, I would really like 2 of them stacked below the Betsy.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
I've driven the two Alphas with several different amps. I used two Dayton APA-150's bridged which was about 75-100 wpc, and an older Denon AVR of about the same power.
When driving 2 Alphas per side in parallel my best choice has been a single Yung SD200 ( 200 wpc into 4 ohms ) plate amp. I've used a single Yung SD300 which is a little too much power.
I'm not sure how one Dayton APA150 would perform driving four Alphas in parallel. It could work? But one wasn't enough for two Alphas but that was into 8 ohms.
grafxdesin
Super Member
Awesome! Wild Burro is about 2 weeks before they can ship the Betsy's so it's learn all I can till then.