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Open baffle subwoofer

It will be easy for me to use as I already use REW and have a laptop music server connected to my rig.
 
Frequencies that disapears are due to cancellation. So speakers placement and absorption/diffusion can help.
 
If you need bucket subs in addition to open baffle "subs" the open baffle subs aren't doing much sub woofing. I would classify open baffle "subs" as decent woofers. Of course my opinion is weighted because I'm used to 18Hz in room response from two true subwoofers.
 
JoeESP9 said:
If you need bucket subs in addition to open baffle "subs" the open baffle subs aren't doing much sub woofing. I would classify open baffle "subs" as decent woofers. Of course my opinion is weighted because I'm used to 18Hz in room response from two true subwoofers.
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My OB woofers go down to 40hz which covers 95% of the acoustic jazz music I listen to. OB subs ( I prefer the term woofers ) do not produce slam.
 
nick parkin said:
Well erwin has a 15' mounted on an open baffle and it sounds just fine....
we can't hear any low frequencies being canceled out. I brought this to his attention. I said "but won't the low frequencies cancel out"

He said "nick my friend, you can use your O-silly-scope to take measurements, microphones to take frequency response measurements, but there are 3 kinds of ears. The engineer, the testers, and the people who buy the product. the only ear that matters is the ear of the person who buys the product." what he's saying is that it does not matter what the measurements say. It all matters what your ears say.

That said there is validity to the fact that low frequencies get canceled out. Each of his open baffle speakers are pointed at an angle to the listener, and each have a wall next to them, which won't allow the bass to wrap around on both sides. The wall blocks the bass on one side, resulting a only a partial cancelation of the low frequencies, which he can account for with the eq on the plate amp. Scientifically its difficult to explain why the bass on his speakers can play so low, but they do even though conventional wisdom tells just that it shouldn't!
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Again. You are young. You learn for yourself. This guy is you "typical" audiophile: His ears are the standard. But note: the standard for him! And that is ok. Please don't make the mistake to think that he "knows it all".

Did you measure the room response? Why don't you do that? Post the actual results! Right now, he could be listening to the "worst sound ever". And is fooling you! And you turn around and fool us (well, waste time)

Without measurments, its simple subjective "bla". Subjective won't get you very far in this industry. Its ok as a consumer though - heck, its part of the fun!


Have you watched the first 15 minutes of the video I linked? Do YOU trust your ears now?
 
JoeESP9 said:
Thanks for that link.
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Yes, thanks for that link. Nice!

If I do a log sweep without room eq, I can listen to the sound wander around and nulls like crazy. But OP needs to learn so much, it won't help if I ask him to play a log sweep and if it sounds "perfect". (or pink noise)
 
Poultrygeist said:
My OB woofers go down to 40hz which covers 95% of the acoustic jazz music I listen to. OB subs ( I prefer the term woofers ) do not produce slam.
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My speakers of choice (ESL's and Magneplanars) could hardly be accused of producing "slam". ESL's and Maggies being di-polar are actually open baffle speakers. OTOH, my TL subs are relatively flat to ~18Hz and do produce slam when required. Currently they're crossed over at 50Hz using an electronic crossover.
 
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ev13wt said:
Again. You are young. You learn for yourself. This guy is you "typical" audiophile: His ears are the standard. But note: the standard for him! And that is ok. Please don't make the mistake to think that he "knows it all".

Did you measure the room response? Why don't you do that? Post the actual results! Right now, he could be listening to the "worst sound ever". And is fooling you! And you turn around and fool us (well, waste time)

Without measurments, its simple subjective "bla". Subjective won't get you very far in this industry. Its ok as a consumer though - heck, its part of the fun!


Have you watched the first 15 minutes of the video I linked? Do YOU trust your ears now?
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But they are not the worst sound ever. Everyone can agree that they like their speakers to sound clean, dynamic, detailed etc....

Just because I have not listened to a lot of systems does not mean I know what good sound quality sounds like.

I have Bang and Olufsen H6 Headphones(highly regarded, and rightly so) Klipsch KG 5.5's(Im sad that I sold them) polk audio sound systems and I listen to music every day. I guarantee you I won't listen to something that Is genuinely crappy and say "wow that sounds great".
Most people can agree on a few basic principles of what sounds good. well call this "un-subjective criteria ". cleanliness, detail, imaging, etc.... which erwins speakers excel in.

Now the warmth of sound, punchiness and strength of bass and a few other things depend on preference and music taste so well call this the "subjective", but solely judging his speakers from the unsubjective criteria, they excel.
 
ev13wt said:
Again. You are young. You learn for yourself. This guy is you "typical" audiophile: His ears are the standard. But note: the standard for him! And that is ok. Please don't make the mistake to think that he "knows it all".

Did you measure the room response? Why don't you do that? Post the actual results! Right now, he could be listening to the "worst sound ever". And is fooling you! And you turn around and fool us (well, waste time)

Without measurments, its simple subjective "bla". Subjective won't get you very far in this industry. Its ok as a consumer though - heck, its part of the fun!


Have you watched the first 15 minutes of the video I linked? Do YOU trust your ears now?
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But why does room response matter if I can sit in the middle and just smile and be in disbelief about how good everything sounds?
 
nick parkin said:
But why does room response matter if I can sit in the middle and just smile and be in disbelief about how good everything sounds?
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Why, you ask? It's because the smoother the in room response the better the sound will be. I've been using an equalizer to correct in room response since the late 70's. In every instance smoothing in room response resulted in better sound. Now that I have a dedicated acoustically treated room it requires less equalization for that flat response. Even so, room nodes and nulls require the use of a parametric DSP to smooth out some lower frequencies.
 
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JoeESP9 said:
Why you ask? It's because the smoother the in room response the better the sound will be. I've been using an equalizer to correct in room response since the late 70's. In every instance smoothing in room response resulted in better sound. Now that I have a dedicated acoustically treated room it requires less equalization for that flat response. Even so, room nodes and nulls require the use of a parametric DSP to smooth out some lower frequencies.
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Ive been told that they just experiment with placement and see how it affects the sound. They said it does make a big difference. they got bass traps on every corner, and acoustic panels on every wall.
 
BTW: Saying one has an acoustically treated room automatically means the extensive use of bass traps, absorbers and diffusors. I don't randomly experiment. I do something and make measurements. For me it all depends on what the "meter" says. That's why I use REW a calibrated microphone and a DSP along with the room treatments for equalizing my in room response.
 
JoeESP9 said:
BTW: Saying one has an acoustically treated room automatically means the extensive use of bass traps, absorbers and diffusors. I don't randomly experiment. I do something and make measurements. For me it all depends on what the "meter" says. That's why I use REW a calibrated microphone and a DSP along with the room treatments for equalizing my in room response.
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So Joe, in other words you're employing "un-subjective criteria" then? :D
 
Hey guys, I think we are all wasting our time here. The OP doesn't understand that we are just trying to expand his current view. For some reason he can not let go of his OB dreams. I wish that someone had spent this much time, trying to open my eyes when I was 21, but we didn't have the internet back then. We can only hope he gets something out of all of this.
 
Freddymac2 said:
Hey guys, I think we are all wasting our time here. The OP doesn't understand that we are just trying to expand his current view. For some reason he can not let go of his OB dreams. I wish that someone had spent this much time, trying to open my eyes when I was 21, but we didn't have the internet back then. We can only hope he gets something out of all of this.
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I understand what you're telling me, im always open to listening to other peoples systems, I just don't believe that just because I have not listened to a variety of systems does not mean I know what sounds good and what does not.

I think YOU are getting off point. All I asked was would my 8" subwoofer would have excursion problems in an open baffle. Thats it. I got my answer a long time ago. I love the sound of these speakers and I already have them, so I'm trying to make do with what I have. Im a broke college student so I don't have the money to go "oh well these speakers that this audio karma guy made sounds even better why don't I just build them?". I don't have the money to keep getting better and better gear. Thats why I go the DIY route and use designs that I've already heard. Like my buddy Erwins design. Ive heard it, the sound floors me. and I already own 5 of the 49cz852 drivers and have a tweeter that I think sounds good with it. The only speakers that come close that Ive heard was Erwins Audio Nirvana 15" full rangers. And those are 1400 a pair shipped. My zeniths and tweeter were $150 shipped, and i prefer them over the audio nirvanas. Thats not me being stubborn, thats me being on a tight budget and wanting the best sound. And I'm not the only one who likes these Zenith drivers, or the sound of open baffle. The people who are lucky enough to hear these things can back me up on how good these sound.

zenith-49cz852.html

Here is a review of the Zeniths. Don't ask me what this guy compares it to. He has more amp and speakers than any of us could dream of and I think he knows what he's talking about.
 
Sounds like he is having a lot of fun, and we are not going to damp his enthusiasm at all. That is good.

On the other hand, I have a ton of respect for the scope and level of knowledge many here have obtained during years in this hobby.
 
darkblue94 said:
So Joe, in other words you're employing "un-subjective criteria" then? :D
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You should employ unsubjective criteria when comparing something like speakers. There is a general consensus that we enjoy speakers that sound cleaner, more detailed etc... the rest is just preference, and I prefer the Zenith Speakers very much. not only in an unsubjective sense, but an subjective sense. every speaker sounds good in its own way, these just sound really really really good.
 
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