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Open baffle subwoofer

Freddymac2 said:
Hey guys, I think we are all wasting our time here. The OP doesn't understand that we are just trying to expand his current view. For some reason he can not let go of his OB dreams. I wish that someone had spent this much time, trying to open my eyes when I was 21, but we didn't have the internet back then. We can only hope he gets something out of all of this.
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^^ I think that statement is on point.

He is young and exited. Some months, years go by and he remembers this thread. Turns out he did go study, and smiles and chuckles when he reads it again.

That is also a benefit of the internet. You can look up all the _____ you ______ when you where young and ruled the world.
 
ev13wt said:
^^ I think that statement is on point.

He is young and exited. Some months, years go by and he remembers this thread. Turns out he did go study, and smiles and chuckles when he reads it again.

That is also a benefit of the internet. You can look up all the _____ you ______ when you where young and ruled the world.
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Damn it I am excited but don't seem to grasp the fact that my budget is not infinite. I make do with what I have and try to get the best sound for the best price, and these speakers floor anything costing so much more.
 
faber12 said:
Sounds like he is having a lot of fun, and we are not going to damp his enthusiasm at all. That is good.

On the other hand, I have a ton of respect for the scope and level of knowledge many here have obtained during years in this hobby.
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Is it just me or can you see a logical fallacy in freddy's deabates?

me-this sounds amazing
him-yeah but have you compared it to something better.
me-no
him-then how d you know it sounds amazing
me- I just know what good speakers sound like.

Its like my dads Audi
Its very nice to drive, low body roll, plenty of power, corners fantastic, 4wd, its loads of fun. But just because I have not driven a Ferrari or a maclaren does not mean I can't drive an audi and tell you that it is nice to drive.
It IS nice to drive. regardless of how nice I'm sure a ferrari is.

No offense freddy but your arguments are like
"but how do you know that audi is nice to drive have you driven a nicer car before"

No but the Audi just makes me smile when Im flooring it around a corner and its hanging on just fine.

In the same way that I just naturally smile when I listen to these speakers I built. I don't say "wow these speakers must be good I should smile" I listen to the music and pay attention to the details and smile because I can feel the emotion better than ever in the music
 
darkblue94 said:
So Joe, in other words you're employing "un-subjective criteria" then? :D
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If I don't like what I'm hearing it's always my option to change it. Having a starting point that's as neutral as possible is where I'm coming from. A room/system with flat in room response is about as neutral as one can get.

Freddymac2 said:
Hey guys, I think we are all wasting our time here. The OP doesn't understand that we are just trying to expand his current view. For some reason he can not let go of his OB dreams. I wish that someone had spent this much time, trying to open my eyes when I was 21, but we didn't have the internet back then. We can only hope he gets something out of all of this.
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You are totally correct.
 
JoeESP9 said:
If I don't like what I'm hearing it's always my option to change it. Having a starting point that's as neutral as possible is where I'm coming from. A room/system with flat in room response is about as neutral as one can get.



You are totally correct.
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Yes and I like what I'm hearing for the zeniths. I want to work on my room acoustics to get them to sound better. and I'm sure they will
 
I think were all getting off point

  • <--- Here is the point





















Here is where we are
  • <----


The point (no pun intended) is that music is emotion and when you have a very nice sounding system you can perceive that emotion better. And these zeniths relay the emotion so well in the form of clarity, dynamics, balance, and detail that makes me smile.
 
Dear OP. I apologize for saying you cannot recognize "good sound".

What is very obvious from the way you type and respond that you are in fact, a newb, when it comes to how audio actually "works". Edit: thus you preconceptions about sound

Do chill tf out and read. Learn. Don't be the guy on the car forum telling everyone his free flow air intake (intake duct lenght removed) gives him... wait for it... more power in all RPM ranges... (lel)
 
nick;
No one is trying to berate you for having an interest and desire for better reproduced sound. What we're trying to tell you is that you should listen to a wide variety of gear before coming here and gushing about how good the first decent(?) system you've heard sounds. Many of the posters here have been involved in this "passion" longer than you've been alive. We have heard many systems of many different types and we've learned that what initially impresses us is not necessarily what actually sounds the best in the long run.

FWIW: The two best in home systems I've ever heard were both in Baltimore and belonged to college professors. They were a Levinson driven Infinity IRS-V system and a Krell driven Apogee Grand system. Either one was far above anything else I've ever heard in a domestic situation. Either one could convey the weight and power of a full symphony orchestra at concert hall levels. Nothing I've heard before or since has come close. Both are di-polar systems and essentially open baffle.

BTW: If you wonder why I'm comparing the sound to a real orchestra it's because the sound of a real orchestra is the hardest to reproduce.
 
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ev13wt said:
Dear OP. I apologize for saying you cannot recognize "good sound".

What is very obvious from the way you type and respond that you are in fact, a newb, when it comes to how audio actually "works".

Do chill tf out and read. Learn. Don't be the guy on the car forum telling everyone his free flow air intake gives him... wait for it... more power in all RPM ranges... (lel)
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I know Im a noob and I spend $1500 on a pair of speakers. I had a custom crossover designed for them based on the measurements and quality components based on science and experience of others.

They sound subpar at best.

The point is I know and a few other people on here know that these Zeniths are a gem and Im just trying to make them sound their best. They sound incredible even with a 8" polk audio subwoofer in an untreated room. And I can't wait to see how good they can sound once I put them on a actual baffle with real subwoofers, not this little 8" polk audio sub.
 
nick parkin said:
Damn it I am excited but don't seem to grasp the fact that my budget is not infinite. I make do with what I have and try to get the best sound for the best price, and these speakers floor anything costing so much more.
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Humble. Better. Now we are on the right path.

Price doesn't have anything to do with it. You are gtg. But it can sound sooooo much better if you would just switch from reading marketing blogs to reading research papers and "industry standard" books.

:)

Why do I bother? Because I like your enthusiasm. (One can't miss it, right?)
I really could care less if you know good sound reproduction or not.

I want you to learn, study, build. Ya see, if a bunch of people tell me to stfu and read, I would.

To see how the science side of the internet world works, try posting on hydrogenaudio :)

Your post would simply get deleted, and you banned.

Audiokarma accepts all views, thus threads like this. We help.

Its like watching a kid figuring out how to ride a bike for the first time. Fastest kid in the world!

All said in love for audio.
 
nick parkin said:
I know Im a noob and I spend $1500 on a pair of speakers. I had a custom crossover designed for them based on the measurements and quality components based on science and experience of others.

They sound subpar at best.

The point is I know and a few other people on here know that these Zeniths are a gem and Im just trying to make them sound their best. They sound incredible even with a 8" polk audio subwoofer in an untreated room. And I can't wait to see how good they can sound once I put them on a actual baffle with real subwoofers, not this little 8" polk audio sub.
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Those Zens are the "wonder speaker of the internet". Everywhere theres a build thread....

Hype. All it is. Sorry. They ARE good in correct implementation.

You like the fun and lively ob sound. Some of us enjoy various speakers styles.

I feel like a tape loop here. :)
 
JoeESP9 said:
nick;
No one is trying to berate you for having an interest and desire for better reproduced sound. What we're trying to tell you is that you should listen to a wide variety of gear before coming here and gushing about how good the first decent(?) system you've heard sounds. Many of the posters here have been involved in this "passion" longer than you've been alive. We have heard many systems of many different types and we've learned that what initially impresses us is not necessarily what actually sounds the best in the long run.

FWIW: The two best in home systems I've ever heard were both in Baltimore and belonged to college professors. They were a Levinson driven Infinity IRS-V system and a Krell driven Apogee Grand system. Either one was far above anything else I've ever heard in a domestic situation. Either one could convey the weight and power of a full symphony orchestra at concert hall levels. Nothing I've heard before or since has come close.
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I realize that I'm just getting lost in the threads and words, its getting pretty intense and I I've heard audio nirvanas, nice klipsch speakers and
ev13wt said:
Humble. Better. Now we are on the right path.

Price doesn't have anything to do with it. You are gtg. But it can sound sooooo much better if you would just switch from reading marketing blogs to reading research papers and "industry standard" books.

:)

Why do I bother? Because I like your enthusiasm. (One can't miss it, right?)
I really could care less if you know good sound reproduction or not.

I want you to learn, study, build. Ya see, if a bunch of people tell me to stfu and read, I would.

To see how the science side of the internet world works, try posting on hydrogenaudio :)

Your post would simply get deleted, and you banned.

Audiokarma accepts all views, thus threads like this. We help.

Its like watching a kid figuring out how to ride a bike for the first time. Fastest kid in the world!

All said in love for audio.
Click to expand...


Im very scientifically inclined but music is an art, and there are some things like timbre that can't be described through science, at least to my knowledge.
You can't describe the end result, the emotion through science!

That said you can make a great pair of speakers with science, but if you want to really get bet
ev13wt said:
Those Zens are the "wonder speaker of the internet". Everywhere theres a build thread....

Hype. All it is. Sorry. They ARE good in correct implementation.

You like the fun and lively ob sound. Some of us enjoy various speakers styles.

I feel like a tape loop here. :)
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and I've heard good things about tape loops. And I can assure you these Zeniths live up to the hype because Ive listened to them.....
 
There are times when I've smoked a "doob" and am listening with the lights out I could swear they are right over there where my speakers used to be. Isn't that suspension of disbelief what we all want all the time?
 
I believe the mistake was in saying that this system sounds better than a $250,000 system.

Every time I have obtained a piece of gear that was a significant upgrade, I have realized just how much less my system was actually all that great before. Where can we go from here?

You can give up trying to convince us that you have thrown a few drivers and a capacitor together and managed to make a system that sounds better than one that someone has spent 30 years and many thousand dollars developing. You are not going to change our way of thinking.

We do however believe you that your system sounds good. :thumbsup:

The real reference for how a speaker 'should' sound is a real instrument. Does a guitar or cello sound like it is real? As an aside, have you ever heard a horn speaker play a brass instrument? Horns, French horns, tuba, etc?

Ever hear a pair of Bose 901? They are really cool. Big, wide open sound, lively and fun. Realistic? No. They are a ton of fun to listen to though.

I am rambling here. One thing I have learned is that you are not going to change someone's opinion over the internet. :) This thread is a fun read though, really.
 
nick parkin said:
... Im very scientifically inclined but music is an art, and there are some things like timbre that can't be described through science, at least to my knowledge.
You can't describe the end result, the emotion through science!

...
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Which brings me to this.

Timbre. The entire frequencies that make up a single sound event. Base, overtones, noise.

Your mother when she says: "Nick!"

Has a timbre. It can be recorded and reproduced with technology in such a way that the recreated sound event fools you into thinking its actually your mom.

A single violin note.
A snare hit.

Music is art. Fully agreed. Cannot predict a emotional response.

Everything to (re)produce the art (depending in part on the scale of the art: from edm to a single piano to, yes, records of birds chirping) is in fact quite measurable.

If it where not measurable, how could you reproduce it?
 
And further: How do you know what the artist intended (try not to hurt me for using that phrase) for you to hear?

Did he mix it for open baffles? Box? Cheap earbuds maybe? I mean earbuds own like 90% of music consumption at least?

Rambling threads. We need more like this.
 
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