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Parts and Pieces: A True ARC Mystery

The sad thing- is that there is a significant fraction of the whole generation of audiophiles that grew up in the 1970s and 1980s (late Boomers and early Gen X'ers), that, due to experiences with ARC, Counterpoint, and other tube gear, that simply would self-destruct without apparent reason- still think that tube gear is this big chore to own- "it'll always be in the shop, you always have to replace tubes, it's not safe, and it just won't ever work reliably, regardless of whatever you do".

I, and other people who know how truly well-engineered, reliable, and trouble-free modern tube gear can be- still have a serious uphill battle, trying to convince some of these people of the benefits of tubes- the sound that modern tube gear is capable of- and why it's worth it, to own tube gear now- when in their minds, is still the image of an old ARC tube amp, going up in flames...

It's hard NOT to blame the designers of this era of amps, for the bad attitude some people seem to have toward tube gear...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
I'm scratching my head a bit.
If you can build an amp to such a high design, its baffling to me to see that they weren't aware of ( what appear to be) easily ( and pretty inexpensively) patches to polish the finished product.
Maybe a not being able to see the tree from the forest thing:dunno:
Maybe not seeing long term:idea:
Hard to believe they ( the designers) weren't seeing what Dave saw during their preliminary testing.
Which as I understand , wasn't addressed in updates nor in newer models.:crazy:
 
And that's precisely the conundrum NJ: Why wasn't it addressed before being released? I mean, I'm (truly) hardly trying to put myself up as some sort of giant killer by being someone whose "so" capable, while Johnson and company were dufuses. The fix being as simple as it is would have added just a few extra bucks to the cost of building the unit -- which in terms of what these amplifiers sold for, would have been nothing. Other thoughts:

1. I know that back in 1983, ARC was still a pretty small company -- but obviously one well on its way. At that time, to my knowledge, all of the power amplifier designs up to at least and including the D115 era used the same basic balanced paraphase phase inverter with cross coupled driver stage concept. Oh they played with it a bit here and there, but the concept was the same -- and it is that basic concept that unchecked, produces the thunderous whallop in the speakers at shut down. The point I'm driving at, is that there were other low production marques (think Fairchild or Acrosound for example) that are still highly sought after today, due to the high intrinsic value they retain from the reputation they made for themselves. Against that, I don't believe there is the demand or hunt for early ARC power amplifiers like there is for these other marques, because the reputation of early ARC power amplifiers was real. In other words, there really was a problem.

2. I mentioned my studies so long ago of output tubes failing in the overall types of circuits that the early ARC designs represent. That wasn't just some amateurish, casual study of the problem. It was a very detailed study that involved about 5 dozen + tubes with detailed records and notes regarding configuration, number of power cycles, total time in use, and measured power output at numerous intervals for each tube in the study -- over the hundreds of hours that the study entailed. One of the out-growths of that study was the development of my power output tube tester, because I rather quickly found out that Gm testing simply didn't show up the kinds of damage being done by the destructive kinds of power cycling as being discussed here -- until a tube was so far gone that it was dangerous to use (i.e., prone to arcing, which very well spent tubes can be prone to do). Power output testing on the other hand is brutally honest, because it is a high level dynamic test (whcih Gm testing is NOT) that puts a spotlight on cathode condition. In comparison, Gm testing is merely a test for "characteristic", not condition.

What I truly didn't know 40 years ago -- that I am really only piecing together now because of this project -- is that all of the push and attention (at that time) to regulate this and regulate that, add hundreds if not thousands of µF in reserve power supply capacitance, and raise coupling caps to extremely large values -- was really the direct result of Johnson and ARC, and his new approach to designing vacuum tube amplifiers. As an avid "Audio Dimensions" fan of that day (whose associated audio salon in CA was an authorized ARC dealer), that approach was all the rage and discussion, as in Ike Eisenson's Book "Tu-be Or Not Tu-be", and in his monthly updates that followed -- that the few of us left still working with vacuum tubes, were working with. I was certainly aware of ARC at the time, and that their designs employed such techniques, but did not realize that they were the driving source behind it all.

Of course, when I started experimenting with such concepts, I immediately started having problems with output tube arcing and way-to-early failures, which I didn't understand, but wrote off as my lack of any fundamental knowledge as to what was going on at the time. I thought it was me doing something wrong. It was those events however that ultimately lead me on what amounted to a 10 year study (in between getting married, having kids, buying a house, cars, you know -- life...) to truly find out what was going on. Two things became eminently crystal clear and absolute to me from those studies that culminated in 1992: (1) Installing an "Instant Off" AND delayed make on power up output stage B+ control was absolutely imperative to such designs, to eliminate and protect the tubes from all the high powered bumps and thumps and resulting potential output tube arcing such designs produce -- and (2) When installing new lower ESR power supply caps (let alone increasing their value or adding regulation) into an existing design (i.e., modifying your Dynaco MK III, or Eico HF-60, or, or.....), then it became absolutely imperative to install what I originally coined as "Screen Stability" resistors. Yes, they are screen stopper resistors by any other name -- BUT -- what identifies them as Screen Stability resistors, is that they are screen stopper resistors added to designs that never originally included them -- which the MK III and HF-60 amplifiers did not. I mean, who would have thought that by simply increasing and/or improving the capacitance of the power supply, it would then require the addition of screen stopper resistors to prevent the tubes from arcing? Not me, nor apparently anyone else -- and most specifically, the wizards (said affectionately) at ARC, either!! Look at their designs throughout most of the 70s -- big power supply capacitance, their early regulation circuits, and the classic ARC small signal section with all its bumps and thumps -- yet in their two output tube models (think D76 or D51 series for example) -- not a screen stopper to be found! Their push-pull-parallel designs of the 70s (were there any?) would have had screen stoppers out of default, because they are required to keep such configurations stable. Now by the 80s, their two output tube models did include screen stoppers (think D70 -- the little brother of the D115), which was a great first step to guard against output tube arcing from power supplies that were regulated or had massive amounts of capacitance -- except I was hardly following detail changes in ARC design because remember, I had no idea that they were the focal point of all this at the time. Point being, I didn't know to install them just because ARC started doing so. So I independently determined on my own that screen stopper resistors were required in all new designs of the highly regulated/high P/S capacitance type, and that Screen Stoppers were required for so modified equipment that never included them in the original design. But of course, that was only half of the problem. The other half -- and every bit as important -- was the output tube B+ control -- which to my knowledge, ARC never implemented, retrofitted, or even by all appearances, had a clue to do.

When the internet came on the scene and AK became a reality, I started reading of all these folks who upgraded (or restored) their amplifiers with new and/or greater amounts of power supply capacitance (or both), and also usually did the "recommended" increase in coupling capacitance size (adding insult to injury), but damn, now my output tubes are arcing -- and I don't know why -- help! There are a number of factors involved including the type of output tubes used, how they are operated, how they are biased, etc., but where there had been no arcing before and now there was, I knew exactly why, and started answering to install Screen Stability resistors, which to everybody's amazement (at the time) in fact solved the problem. Now today, they are almost universally installed matter of factly, and the whole issue of output tube arcing has generally gone away unless a tube itself went south, or someone keeps trying to use a tube that arced -- "but still tests good"........do NOT do that, as once a tube has arced, it is forever prone to do so no matter the precautions taken.

Somewhere along the line, the powers that be at AudioXpress became aware of my work, and asked me to write up an article regarding all of this for their digital edition, which to date and my knowledge -- is STILL the ONLY written and published source on this topic to this day. I hardly mention any of this in an effort to impress, but only to emphasize this fact: Throughout the 70s and 80s, nobody seemed to really know what was going on regarding these output tube failures, and given all the hindsight now, it is quite possible if not probable that neither did ARC -- who started the whole"movement"! Maybe it just became an acceptable result of collateral damage to be accepted for the improved sound produced -- and make no mistake, there was and is still, universal recognition as to the importance of power supply performance -- courtesy of W. Johnson and company.

So I was (apparently and unknowingly at the time) on a parallel path with ARC in trying to find out the causes involved. We both ultimately recognized the need for screen stopper resistors when "new age" type power supplies were used, so that ARC started including them where they weren't originally included in their earlier, similar designs, and I independently started recommending the installation of Screen Stability resistors where stoppers weren't originally included. But where as I then went on to identify a simple/workable resolve for the second problem of all the output tube pulsing and speaker thumping at shutdown.............

3. ARC ultimately just quietly moved away from the balanced paraphase phase inverter/cross-coupled driver stage, and moved on to multiple cascade connect constant current diff amps, that achieved all the advantages of the original cross-coupled design, but didn't need the up-front single ended paraphase inverter to assist it. Such a design therefore won't have the bumps and thumps at shutdown. The VT100 is a good example of this which I was looking at for another AKer. Oh the older type design was still around in the 90's, but all the input stages and balanced paraphase phase inverter stage had been converted to mosfets by then. And, ARC did resolve the shutdown pulses and thumps, by converting the the B+ regulators for the small signal stages to passive SS designs. That is, being all solid state (no error amplifier or pass tube heaters to cool down), and drawing their operating current from the very source voltage they are ultimately dropping and regulating, the regulators then don't immediately quit at shutdown -- not until the voltage supplying them has dropped 100 volts or so down to their regulation voltage level -- which takes time -- and particularly so given the amount of capacitance ARC uses at the output of the B+ rectifiers. And, ARC had even further increased the already significant bank of capacitance there, making the voltage drop even slower. Of course, the input section mosfets also operate at much lower voltages, too. The collective result is, that by the time the regulators for the small signal stages fall out of regulation, the output tubes have cooled down enough such that any pulse finally created by the SS input stages is of little consequence -- the output tubes are too cool to produce much of anything applied to them by then. Gerrry, your Classic 120s use this latter approach, while still using the old style input configuration.

So the problem was largely the fully vacuum tube (or nearly so) products of the 70s and 80s, which today, the timer and delay relay very effectively resolves for those (few?) units still left in existence. ARC did finally address by the 90s. But as Gordon so aptly described, by then, the damage for newer audiophiles of means that got a taste of the earlier products, was done. Once they dug out of that hole, then they fell into another with their full speed ahead approach in designing all of their products to operate with balanced inputs. And yet still, ARC survived, and thankfully continues to do so. Missteps or missed opportunities aside, their innovation and drive that kept the vacuum tube portion of the high fidelity industry alive when it was otherwise all but dead, and the fact that it's still is a driving force today, is absolutely undeniable.

Dave

 
My ARC Classic 120’s don’t make any noise at turn on or off so they must have done something to address this issue.

At some point, they did stop having that issue with newer models. I don't know if it was a fundamental change in design that obviated the need for the type of corrections that Dave had to make to the 115, or if they actually did put in some sort of staged turn-on/turn-off circuit in them.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
I'm pretty certain it's because they got away from using the up-front single ended balanced paraphase inverter stage, and went to completely push-pull designs -- phase inverter and all. That certainly would cancel out any phase inverter induced thump produced to eliminate any apparent user problems. And I imagine the conversion to passive SS regulators took care of any actual pulse generated to complete the resolve.

Dave
 
I used a D76 for a decade, and i do not recognize the power-off thump. In fact it was a stable
amp that worked very well. During it's existence i replaced the 6550A once as they got "tired", and
i had a problem with one 6FQ7 that arced .
Maybe the reason that no power humps was that i used a SSR to control power, this will
make at zero crossings, and also break at zero crossing.
 
but damn, now my output tubes are arcing -- and I don't know why

The second thing I did to my Pilot SA-260 was screen stoppers. First it was new caps, all basically of stock value. The very first time I wound it up a little bit after the overhaul one of the tubes arced. Added the 100 ohm screen resistors and it hasn't done it again since, even with that same set of tubes that are far from being daisy-fresh. Newer caps I expect are lower ESR, even though they are pretty close to original value so its still an issue.
 
Hi Peter -- Thanks for your input. Conceptually, the D-76 is very similar to the D115 topology wise -- but there are very important differences between them that could contribute greatly to this issue:

1. The D76 has a total of 900 uF on the output of the B+ rectifiers. The D115 has 3,200 uF (X3.65).
2. The D76 has a coupling R/C factor into the output stage of 22,000. The same R/C coupling factor in the D115 is 186,760 (X8.49).
3. The D76 has a cross-coupled R/C coupling factor of 2,200,000. The same R/C coupling factor in the D115 is 10,150,000 (X4.61).
4. The D76 uses electrolytic caps to decouple all B+ supply points in the power supply. The D115 uses none.
5. The size of the OPTs in the D76 appear to be nearly the size of that in a Dynaco MK III. In the D115, they are about 150% larger, indicating a much greater inductance.

There are other details, but these are the major ones, with each of them having a significant influence on the LF response and transient response of these two amplifiers at shut down - with some of the differences being huge. The only way that a real comparison could be made though would be to have them both together side by side in the lab. Speaker sensitivity would also play into the equation. In any event, thanks for your input, and I'm glad to hear your D76 didn't seem to suffer. From the quick analysis above, it seems that the D115 may suffer from the old "if some's good, more's better" design approach -- which as has been so often shown before, is not always true due to the collateral issues generated if not properly accounted for. This may be one such case.

Dave
 
I'm not sure ARC was the driver in using high capacitance, I think it's that everybody that thinks they know how tube circuits work"understands" that higher cap values mean better bass and lower frequency response, but they don't understand the drawbacks to using such high cap values, and also don't understand the modifications necessary to alleviate the issues(mostly from arcing, and low frequency stability)
 
You may be right Scott -- as somebody who was caught up in all that at the time though (in the 70s that is), I just don't know of anybody else who was promoting the concept back then -- heck for that matter, I don't know of anybody who was even producing new vacuum tube audio equipment other than EI/ARC at the time, either. I don't recall any of that thinking in the 60s, so I just assumed that since ARC was the only new manufacturer on the scene in the early 70s (that I know of), and they included the concept in their designs, that it was ARC's doing. Maybe others can chime in on any other manufacturers of that time -- if there were any others..........

Dave
 
You may be right Scott -- as somebody who was caught up in all that at the time though (in the 70s that is), I just don't know of anybody else who was promoting the concept back then -- heck for that matter, I don't know of anybody who was even producing new vacuum tube audio equipment other than EI/ARC at the time, either. I don't recall any of that thinking in the 60s, so I just assumed that since ARC was the only new manufacturer on the scene in the early 70s (that I know of), and they included the concept in their designs, that it was ARC's doing. Maybe others can chime in on any other manufacturers of that time -- if there were any others..........

Dave

When did VTL, Counterpoint, Quicksilver, Conrad-Johnson, Jadis hit the market? I remember those all being around in the early/mid 80s, but the 1970s is before my time. In the early 1970s wasn't Dynaco still in production?
 
There ya go -- smack dab in the middle of the 70s to about 1980 is when I recall all of the hopped up Dyanco MK IIIs. Eisensen's Manual was dated 74 I believe, and I don't think anybody else was around accept for ARC at the time. I think Dynaco may have had some stock that lasted into the 70's, but others would have to pinpoint when Hafler ultimately sold the company.

Dave
 
Having owned some vintage CJ gear (and loved it), I know a little about their history. Their first preamp: 1977. Their first power amp: 1981. So half a decade later as compared to ARC.
 
Thanks Kevin. I finally had a chance to dig up my old "tu-be or not tu-be Audio Modification Manual" by Eisenson. It's first printing is dated 76 with subsequent printings in 77 and 78, so I was off a couple of years on the publishing of his work (and in the spelling of his name as well). In glancing back through it though (what memories!), the manual could be summed up as (basically) installing the as manufactured ARC principles of their: (1) Regulated (or certainly beefed up) power supply circuits, (2) Stripped down (i.e., no cathode follower) phono preamp circuit, (3) eliminating tone controls, and (4), greatly increased coupling cap values, into whatever model preamp you happen to have around, and for power amplifiers: (5) Using massive power supply capacitance, (6) greatly increased coupling capacitance, (7) installing cathode coupling (ARC's Partial Cathode Coupling), and (7) converting to regulated screen grid operation in those pieces -- with the usual go-to modification pieces being the ubiquitous Dynaco pieces, but others were covered as well. He also gave a nod to the Paoli modification as a way to go as well.

To my knowledge, Eisenson was one of the first modifiers to gain widespread awareness and acceptance within the small group of diy audio enthusiasts still working with tubes at the time. No doubt his publications had much to do with that. He even innovated a few things himself I believe -- primarily the idea of using CC devices in place of plate load resistors, and in the tail of diff amp stages. Joe Curcio was around as well in that day, and apparently was part of the Paoli group when their modification for the MK III was developed -- but as I recall, he was more of a modifier rather than an innovator. After those guys however, things fall off pretty quick. So it may be that it wasn't ARC actively promoting these concepts, but simply was the first to put them all together and use them in new manufactured vacuum tube audio equipment of that day, whereas they weren't part of the general audio design equation before that time. Likely then, it was the early experimenters like Eisenson who actually promoted the concepts to the diy community, who otherwise may have not been made aware of them until much later.

Dave
 
I would like to thank Dave for all his hard work and detailed analysis of this amplifier. I now see why ARC has a reputation that sadly many still believe.
I am the one that asked Dave to check out the VT100MKII schematic. I got a good deal on one about a year ago that is in working condition but have been reluctant to set it up in my system. I need to get the tubes checked and possibly replaced as the gettering is worn thin but when I get it up to spec and properly biased I can feel confident that it will last and not go "POOF" in a cloud of smoke. LOL
I can only imagine that some of the early ARC models will be commanding higher prices as a result of this information. A chance to buy Fillet Mignon at hamburger prices.
This post needs to be made a sticky, I don't think anyone has ever made a detailed analysis of ARC's early offerings and why they were problematic. Dave hit this out of the park!

BillWojo
 
Very interested in your assessment of the sonic aspects re other amps mentioned previously, McIntosh, etc. Is this project destined for your own use?
Btw, these project tutorials have been both informative and humbling in good ways, and I have to wonder if this is your "day job" or related to it?
 
I've hardly forgotten about this thread folks -- in my area of N GA, we've been without power now since this past Thursday early AM (about 3:30) due to the rain and high winds that came through, and it's not projected to be back on until Monday. We're operating on generator now (manual hookup), but as we've been gone the past three days and thought the power would have come back on quickly enough while we were gone (it did for nearby surrounding areas), we didn't think we'd come home to all the thawed food and cleanup that's now required. So, a bunch of stuff to attend to now, and I'll get back to the thread asap.

Dave
 
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