Path to upgrade Technics

[oldtexasdog]

I have a Technics SL1600 that has been gone thru and upgraded with a Mogami IC. It works very well with no bad habits. Would a Technics 1200GR or a Technics 1500C be a worthwhile upgrade?

 

[Mister Pig]

I have a Technics SL1600 that has been gone thru and upgraded with a Mogami IC. It works very well with no bad habits. Would a Technics 1200GR or a Technics 1500C be a worthwhile upgrade?

Need a lot more information than this, and evaluating a turntable upgrade often needs to be done in context of the rest of the system. While a 1500C would be an upgrade, the question becomes is the rest of the system at a place where an upgrade in turntable would be fully realized.

So what do you use for a cartridge, what is the phono stage being used, and what is the rest of the stereo like? Quite often people will cut corners on the phono stage, and this will limit the sound quality you can obtain. Spending money on tables and even cartridges feels like more worthwhile purchases over a phono stage, and they use the on board one or one of the less expensive stand alones.

So a bit more info would be helpful, and what your ultimate goals are for your system.

 

[oldtexasdog]

Cartridge's are a Otofon 2M Bronze and a Denon 301 MK2
The Ortofon is 18mm from cart base and the Denon is 17mm so I have a 1mm shim on the Denon to maintain VTA as it is not adjustable.
Pre is a Carver C1 upgraded with the BillD mods. It does MM and MC with different loads and capacitance settings.
Amp is a Carver M-500t upgraded to MK2
Speakers B&W 705's
Sub Mirage powered and EQ set at 80hz
IC interconnects are Mogami from TT
IC's from Pre to amp-DACT Dual Connect precious metal audio cables. Capacitance 15pF
Thank you for your time

 

[Mister Pig]

Cartridge's are a Otofon 2M Bronze and a Denon 301 MK2
The Ortofon is 18mm from cart base and the Denon is 17mm so I have a 1mm shim on the Denon to maintain VTA as it is not adjustable.
Pre is a Carver C1 upgraded with the BillD mods. It does MM and MC with different loads and capacitance settings.
Amp is a Carver M-500t upgraded to MK2
Speakers B&W 705's
Sub Mirage powered and EQ set at 80hz
IC interconnects are Mogami from TT
IC's from Pre to amp-DACT Dual Connect precious metal audio cables. Capacitance 15pF
Thank you for your time

The system is pretty well balanced IMHO right where its at. If I were looking to make upgrades in it I would start with the electronics, and knowing that a stand alone phono stage would be in the cards. Others would probably say start with speakers and work with amplification being the second choice, and thats not a bad way of doing it also. But if you are happy with the sound, perhaps stay right where you are and buy more vinyl. But making a turntable upgrade certainly isnt a waste of money, the 1500C is reported to be quite nice. If Technics is your brand of preference you probably can't go wrong with it. But I am not sure its significantly better than your current one, minus the VTA adjustment issue. Now some folks think the VTA adjustment on the 1500C is a bit of a kludge, although the new coreless motor is supposed to be an improvement over earlier generation Technics tables, so perhaps its a good trade off. But I don't think you will get an immediate and significant upgrade in sound within the context of the system, but rather you set the foundation for further improvements by having a higher quality source component.

 

[psemeraro]

The system is pretty well balanced IMHO right where its at. But I don't think you will get an immediate and significant upgrade in sound within the context of the system, but rather you set the foundation for further improvements by having a higher quality source component.

Like Mr Pig, I like to take a step back and look holistically at the system before shouting out cartridge models from the mountain top. I'll defer to his comments regarding the phono pre.

If it were me in your shoes, the next thing I'd do is upgrade the caps in the crossover of your speakers. Even if it were a few hundred dollars for just new caps for tweeters and bypass for the mids. (Part of the "sound" of the B&W 800 series is the Mundorf Supreme SIO caps which in the right application are great, I use them as output caps in my tube phono pre bypassed with V-Cap CUTF. Actually prefer ClarityCap CMR in my speakers but I digress...) That would take a great pair of speakers up a notch in clarity and imaging depth. Your existing cartridges might suddenly sound "upgraded" with better clarity, cleaner mids and highs, improved texture, and a wider and deeper soundstage.

A free upgrade is to re-torque the screws on the cone driver in your speakers. B&W can tell you what it should be if you have a torque wrench, or you can just "snug" them by feel. Every "cones in a box" speaker I re-torque the drivers on sounds better and I've yet to find one more than a few years old where the tension was consistent and perfect.

I would make sure the spindle on your Technics is freshly lubricated with the proper Technics oil or equivalent. That (along with the condition of capacitors on the control board) affects the amount of wow and flutter which of course affects several aspects of sound quality including imaging.

I would spend $100 on ebay on a Tripp Lite IS500 isolation transformer and plug your preamp (only) into the isolated power. In my home, every low level device sounds cleaner, wider, deeper, and "blacker" plugged into isolated power. (My power amps have lots of added capacitance and dim the lights a bit when switched on, they show no meaningful change on isolated power. YMMV)

Next thing I'd get is a Herbie's Audio Labs tonearm damper, about $20. The ringy, zingy sound of metal tonearms is mitigated just a bit with that little device, and on something like the Technics arm I notice a more open midrange, more space around hi-hats (articulation and phrasing more obvious) and other sounds in the mid-high range, and slightly less lower midrange boom on male voices. Some call that "warmth" but its just resonance and anything that cleans up time domain noise to me always sounds better. Maybe a 5% change but it's audible on my systems. If you hate the effect then I apologize in advance but every metal tube arm I've put one on has sounded cleaner and better to me. It's $20, you decide if its worth trying. Being under pressure, (and I use the titanium ones) they are fiddly/excruciating to install, feel free to curse my name loudly if you decide to try it. I've also learned the easiest way to install, you're welcome to pm if interested.

In my home, on my modded Technics tables and arms, even basic cartridges (think Stanton 500E & Audio Technica VM95C) have great dynamics, huge separation and a deep soundstage. Part of what I was chasing with cartridges actually had nothing to do with cartridges at all, and the better cartridges are able to "strut their stuff" to great effect.

My opinion is simply my opinion, nothing more, I'm sure there will be plenty of responses here recommending cartridges for you to try.

Pat

 

[oldtexasdog]

WOW this is great advice folks!
psemeraro
What type of caps do you use on the crossovers? Film/foil/? Is there a good B&W forum that I could join for more information?
Thanks All