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Phono Pre: ART DJPRE II vs. DB Systems DB-8

Thanks for all of the replies, folks.

hoodie: I look forward to your comparison of the DB Systems to the ART once you get it. And good to know that you preferred the DB Systems to the Musical Fidelity.

steely: Very good to know that your trusted source preferred the ART to the DB Systems after comparing the two. steely's and hoodie's comments also make me glad that I've been zeroing in on the DB Systems over its other price competitors for comparison to the ART.

beatcomber: Thanks for the info. on which battery and charger you purchased. Once you get the battery and connect it to the ART, maybe you can post some pics to give a visual of how it's done? I'm still a bit unsure, but maybe it will be clearer after seeing some pics.
 
I don't want another project comparo to do:D (speaking selfishly only for myself) and my DB-8 is busy right now.

I can relate though I'd be in the camp with Hoodie preferring my DB-8 but mine is the version with the up rated power supply. So my opinion needs to be taken in account in that respect. I feel it gets out of the way of the music better than either the Art or VLPS with less grainiess. I do own those two also. I run them both off linear power supplies rather than the wall warts when I use them but never have had them in the same system and haven't used them in a while. Good lower budget options:thmbsp:

Hey arcorob glad to see your posts again. I'm curious what spec you think the Art has over the DB-8 you find critical? The DB has very tight .25 db +- RIAA which actually is pretty rare especially in the price range I'll have to track down the bandwidth on the DB-8. Proof is in the listening though as you also mention.
 
I have the Audiowind version knock-off of the DB-8, not presently in service. Sounded OK but audibly needs a cap upgrade for the mylars in the RIAA comp to be competitive.
 
Pio1980 said:
I have the Audiowind version knock-off of the DB-8, not presently in service. Sounded OK but audibly needs a cap upgrade for the mylars in the RIAA comp to be competitive.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the Audiowind a knock-off of the Hagerman Bugle?
 
Muddywaters said:
The DB has very tight .25 db +- RIAA which actually is pretty rare especially in the price range I'll have to track down the bandwidth on the DB-8. Proof is in the listening though as you also mention.
Click to expand...

Actually, the RIAA specs is 0.04db. Because he mentions the extreme frequency range without going into actual specs, I'm guessing it is like some of his other gear, 5hz-70K +0/-1 db.
 
Anyone got a close up shot of the innards of the DB-8, or even the Art DJ Pre wonder if they could be modded?
 
Muddy !

Muddywaters said:
Hey arcorob glad to see your posts again. I'm curious what spec you think the Art has over the DB-8 you find critical? The DB has very tight .25 db +- RIAA which actually is pretty rare especially in the price range I'll have to track down the bandwidth on the DB-8. Proof is in the listening though as you also mention.
Click to expand...

Thanks first and you beat me to something..I just wonder how many other contenders (Cambridge Audio, TC, etc etc) would sound running straight DC..I know it did wonders for the art so this may be a find that benefits all...

The specs comparison (does not always mean a lot but here they are)
  • ART has gain control - none for DB8
  • PF settings of 100 and 200 for the Art - DB8 is preset at 100pf
  • 45db of gain for the ART vs 37db on the DB8
  • -90db signal to noise on the ART vs -76 on the DB8



Again, specs are specs and only the final sound counts

@steelglam

Hookup is easy

Get a 12vdc battery and charger like this
http://www.amazon.com/Rechargeable-...&qid=1369323069&sr=8-5&keywords=12vdc+battery

Cut the end off a walwart spare (that fits the phono stage) or buy an end at radio shack


connect a wire to the positive wire of the connector and a wire to the negative

Connect the other ends to the battery (I bought some cheap slip on clips)

Plug into your phone stage and you are set....

Here is a picture of mine
166002_641664815848984_1452957236_n.jpg
 

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What are SMT's ?

HypnoToad said:
Wonder what those op amps are?

SMT's but still easily replaced.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any opamps unless they are covered by the metal plates (low end of the picture)

Agree with others...this could be FUN

Now if you could just build a SUT into the ART....:yes:

Base it on the AT630 easy easy build I think...
 
The op amps are circled in red, they are surface mount like most of the other components.

Can anyone post what the markings are on the op amps?

ART_II_DJ20_zps615f6cac.jpg
 
arcorob said:
[*]PF settings of 100 and 200 for the Art - DB8 is preset at 100pf

@steelglam

Hookup is easy

Get a 12vdc battery and charger like this
http://www.amazon.com/Rechargeable-...&qid=1369323069&sr=8-5&keywords=12vdc+battery

Cut the end off a walwart spare (that fits the phono stage) or buy an end at radio shack


connect a wire to the positive wire of the connector and a wire to the negative

Connect the other ends to the battery (I bought some cheap slip on clips)

Plug into your phone stage and you are set....

Here is a picture of mine
166002_641664815848984_1452957236_n.jpg
Click to expand...

One thing to note: The DB Systems can be custom-made with input capacitance of your choice, and then for another $40, you can get their bag of parallel loading plugs to add upwards to an additional 400pf in various increments.

Thanks for the info. on how to hook it up to the battery, arcorob. Much appreciated.

One thing still confuses me, though: "Cut the end off a walwart spare (that fits the phono stage)." So, you basically cut the walwart part off, right? But when you say "that fits the phono stage," I'm assuming that you mean you have to find a walwart cord that fits the phono stage, buy it, cut the walwart part off, solder the other end into the phono stage, and then connect the cut off part to the battery? If so, is there anything else that you need to know about the walwart cord to know if it is a good match electrically for the phono stage? And is there a reason that you have to use a spare or buy a separate walwart cord to do this, rather than using the one that comes with the ART?
 
Let me clarify

steelglam said:
One thing to note: The DB Systems can be custom-made with input capacitance of your choice, and then for another $40, you can get their bag of parallel loading plugs to add upwards to an additional 400pf in various increments.

Thanks for the info. on how to hook it up to the battery, arcorob. Much appreciated.

One thing still confuses me, though: "Cut the end off a walwart spare (that fits the phono stage)." So, you basically cut the walwart part off, right? But when you say "that fits the phono stage," I'm assuming that you mean you have to find a walwart cord that fits the phono stage, buy it, cut the walwart part off, solder the other end into the phono stage, and then connect the cut off part to the battery? If so, is there anything else that you need to know about the walwart cord to know if it is a good match electrically for the phono stage? And is there a reason that you have to use a spare or buy a separate walwart cord to do this, rather than using the one that comes with the ART?
Click to expand...

I know you can modify the DB8 so its just a matter of which sounds better to you.

Clarity on the DC power.

So say you have an old unused wall wart lying around. Test the end that goes into the ART (or DB8) and see if it fits well. If it does, that's the one to use. Cut it off (the barrel end) and leave yourself lots of wire...so you could cut it near the BLOCK that goes into the AC wall socket.

If as pictured below, you see white dashed line, that would be the + side or the inner core of the plug. The outer is the minus.

If there are NO markings, you should test each wire to see which is which using a meter (continuity test). Put one probe in the barrel and touch a wire. If it beeps, you have your plus.

Did this help? Below is a Wall wart with wire and the barrel end I speak of...note it is a 24v wall wart but that is IRRELEVANT since you are not using that part...
wall-wart.jpg
 
jkilla said:
basically you want to end up with something like this (bigger, longer and the right plug of course)

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CB-213/2.1MM-COAX-POWER-PLUG-W/PIGTAIL-LEADS/1.html

Im sure you can accomplish the same thing with the wall wart that comes with the ART, but if you are into keeping all original parts intact (I know I am), a connector like the one in the link is the thing to look for
Click to expand...

Oh, ok, now it makes sense to me. Thanks, jkilla. I also thought that the ART came with a power cord already soldered-in, so that's why I was confused. I see now that it has a port to connect the 9V wall wart that it comes with.
 
arcorob said:
I know you can modify the DB8 so its just a matter of which sounds better to you.

Clarity on the DC power.

So say you have an old unused wall wart lying around. Test the end that goes into the ART (or DB8) and see if it fits well. If it does, that's the one to use. Cut it off (the barrel end) and leave yourself lots of wire...so you could cut it near the BLOCK that goes into the AC wall socket.

If as pictured below, you see white dashed line, that would be the + side or the inner core of the plug. The outer is the minus.

If there are NO markings, you should test each wire to see which is which using a meter (continuity test). Put one probe in the barrel and touch a wire. If it beeps, you have your plus.

Did this help? Below is a Wall wart with wire and the barrel end I speak of...note it is a 24v wall wart but that is IRRELEVANT since you are not using that part...
wall-wart.jpg
Click to expand...

Got it, arcorob. I completely understand now. Thanks much for the help.
 
marcmorin said:
Actually, the RIAA specs is 0.04db. Because he mentions the extreme frequency range without going into actual specs, I'm guessing it is like some of his other gear, 5hz-70K +0/-1 db.
Click to expand...

Thanks marcmorin for getting that straightened out even better than my faulty memory had it.

arcorob said:
Thanks first and you beat me to something..I just wonder how many other contenders (Cambridge Audio, TC, etc etc) would sound running straight DC..I know it did wonders for the art so this may be a find that benefits all...

The specs comparison (does not always mean a lot but here they are)
  • ART has gain control - none for DB8
  • PF settings of 100 and 200 for the Art - DB8 is preset at 100pf
  • 45db of gain for the ART vs 37db on the DB8
  • -90db signal to noise on the ART vs -76 on the DB8



Again, specs are specs and only the final sound counts
Click to expand...
:thmbsp:Some semantic difference I guess to me most of those are features thanks for clarifying and you know I'm not dismissing their validity as a consideration for a purchasing decision. The s/n is well below the threshold for groove noise for both of them.

arcorob said:
@steelglam

Hookup is easy

Get a 12vdc battery and charger like this
http://www.amazon.com/Rechargeable-...&qid=1369323069&sr=8-5&keywords=12vdc+battery

Cut the end off a walwart spare (that fits the phono stage) or buy an end at radio shack


connect a wire to the positive wire of the connector and a wire to the negative

Connect the other ends to the battery (I bought some cheap slip on clips)

Plug into your phone stage and you are set....

Here is a picture of mine
166002_641664815848984_1452957236_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Parts Express has a kit with different tips and wire for a few bucks allowing you to swap between different devices. That way you can save the wall wart in original condition if inclined. Sorry I don't have a link handy.

I'm interested in the adventures of the battery approach and have a couple of head amps that are built ground up to operate that way. I've also had many pieces of gear I've felt have benefited with power supply upgrades both internal and add on external applications. Perhaps another thread would be in order for me to quell my curiosity from the technical angle not specific to any particular application. I know I've read some threads not necessarily on AK probing pros and cons of battery use with some dissent that just using a battery isn't always the panacea it would first appear. Sorry off topic//
 
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