Phono Pre: ART DJPRE II vs. DB Systems DB-8

[royphil345]

That sounds complicated and time consuming... I would just do a sample with each of the 3 phono stages to compare, using whatever power supply you prefer for each one. Although, it might be interesting to do a 9v vs 12v power supply vs battery comparison with the ART to see if it's mainly the voltage boost making the difference or if you really need a battery. My guess is a regulated or even decent transformer type 12 volt power supply will sound very similar to the battery. If regulated sounds better than the other or something like that, I would just take your word for it. I don't know if we need to analyze so many variations.

I have no preference for the music... Something with cymbals can make evaluating the highs easier, IMO.

EDIT: I wasn't knocking your plan... just thinking you could maybe take it easier on yourself and your marriage...lol

 

[hoodie]

Do you have a copy of Brubeck ~ Take Five? Wonderful song and recording :thmbsp:

 

[arcorob]

Holy cow !!

Hope all had a wonderful Memorial weekend, (those that are US based), for all the overseas friends I hope you had a great weekend too.

I promised in the other thread to order the battery and do some testing for people. The battery is supposed to be here on the 30th so I should be able to get some recording done over the weekend.

Phase One
I'd like to give arcorob, beat and royphil an opportunity to pick out an album/cut they want me use for the following clips. (they have the most experience with the Art and particularly using the battery) Others certainly can chime in with suggestions which I consider for the second round. :thmbsp:

I'll record a clip five ways in this first test.

1) Included stock wall wart
2) 9v regulated ps
3) 12v regulated (same unit as above)
4) 12v alternative ps
these three ps above are AC/DC sorry I don't have any AC only ps to offer
5) 12v battery via Amazon
6) maybe have a duplicate of one of 2-5?

Once we give people plenty of time to assess the clips let's get the feedback into the thread and see if there is some consensus on which is the best result or maybe two if something doesn't emerge a clear cut favorite.

I will plan on using my modded Technics 1200. Currently I have a Dynavector 20X (high output with SoundSmith level 2 ruby cant and nude contact line stylus) on. If that isn't acceptable I have some other options mounted ready to be used.

Grace F9E with the SoundSmith replacement nude elliptical RS-9E (BLUE)
Nagaoka MP-50
Stanton 680 with LP Gear Vivid Line or Original D6807A
ADC integrated headshell with w/ZLM, Super XLM MK II might have another option have to check.

Phase Two if you're all really nice:yes: Using two tracks (maybe three) I'll record each
1)a Art with the preferred
b Art maybe with 2nd choice
2)a MF VLPS with battery
b MF VLPS 12v regulated ps
3) DB-8 (sorry mine has hard wired DB ps)
Maybe a surprise or two additional for the fun of it depending how I hold up or more importantly my wife with the repeated tracks...

I get to choose one of the 2nd phase tracks likely it will be Prokofieff Lieutenant Kiije CSO Riener, (its the Classic Records release)

I have a pretty varied collection of rock, jazz and classical so give me some ideas of what you might want and I can get started with phase one now.

I hope this sounds like a plan that works for all. Let me know what I missed. I forgot to mention my version of the ART is the non-usb DJ II. I've owned it for almost two years.

Bear with me on getting this done but arcorob, beatcomber and royphil345 toss some ideas out so I can get started with Phase One. Let's decide on something to listen to.

That is very very kind of you...I usually use certain test records that are musical and I know have good soundstage and separation..but everyone has different tastes in music so I will throw this out

Elton John - Captain Fantastic - GREAT test cut
Herb Alpert - Besame Mucho (my test needle drop)
Cat Stephens - wild world
REM - Radio Song

That's all I can think of right now..you are Spartacus...

 

[jkilla]

Definitely agree with royphil on this one, to keep things simple, show off the DB8 "at its best", the V-LPS "at its best", and the ART with both the wall wart and the DC battery to illustrate the point. You've got some awesome gear over there and can't help but admit I'm envious lol. With great gear comes great responsibility... A proper shoot-out! Can't wait to hear it!

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[beatcomber]

Hoodie has graciously offered to send me a spare DB-8 as well as a Pangea power supply for the ART. I plan to post some comparative samples as well.

Let the games begin!

 

[steelglam]

Wow...you folks have gone way above and beyond. Thank you so much for this. I look forward to the comparative clips.

I also echo royphil's and jkilla's sentiment to keep it simple, though. Muddywaters, I would recommend doing as jkilla says and just select whichever power supply you think sounds the best with each unit and then just post the clips from there. Save yourself the time and headache. :thmbsp:

 

[arcorob]

I agree...

Wow...you folks have gone way above and beyond. Thank you so much for this. I look forward to the comparative clips.

I also echo royphil's and jkilla's sentiment to keep it simple, though. Muddywaters, I would recommend doing as jkilla says and just select whichever power supply you think sounds the best with each unit and then just post the clips from there. Save yourself the time and headache. :thmbsp:

Enough that muddywaters is doing this...he shouldn't have to make it a chore !!1 My thanks alos...

 

[steely]

This thread has risen to new heights of excellence!! We have some very generous members here, exchanging well-formed thoughts, ideas and opinions, working towards a common goal and purpose. An example of the Internet at its best! Thank you all. :tresbon:

 

[arcorob]

Agreed...

This thread has risen to new heights of excellence!! We have some very generous members here, exchanging well-formed thoughts, ideas and opinions, working towards a common goal and purpose. An example of the Internet at its best! Thank you all. :tresbon:

I like the part where there are no false claims and no fights...in the end, who knows, we might like the DB8 or the ML VLPS better than the ART and people can choose based on preference and budget...but what an awesome way to compare instead of just "hearsay"...

Thanks to all...(specially Muddywaters)

 

[beatcomber]

I like the part where there are no false claims and no fights...in the end, who knows, we might like the DB8 or the ML VLPS better than the ART and people can choose based on preference and budget...but what an awesome way to compare instead of just "hearsay"...

Thanks to all...(specially Muddywaters)

Amen! It's always great to be able to make an informed decision.

 

[Un-filtrd]

Question...

Hoodie has graciously offered to send me a spare DB-8 as well as a Pangea power supply for the ART.

Does anybody know what the ripple and noise is on the Pangea P-100?

 

[Muddywaters]

I'm realizing what I got myself into...

Ok here's the scoop I just figured out that I'm leaving on an extended open-ended trip that will keep me away until mid July possibly. I need to get crackin':scratch2:

How about I do a cut off Cat Stevens Teaser and the Firecat for you arcorob? The rest of you interested parties pick a cut of Teaser with Rob. I think my Captain Fantastic disappeared in a breakup a long, long time ago along with Good Bye Yellow Brick Road I still have some albums in storage here and in Minnesota but I'm not accessing them now. I found five Elton John so far but two are compilations and only one Herb Alpert Beyond if a cut works on there.

Hoodie deserves kudos for sharing but I'm bummed I was hoping Beat would volunteer to send the Grado over. Hoodie, I was thinking that a jazz cut would be nice to include in phase 2. I do have an original Take Five Red label Columbia CS8192 that is pretty clean unfortunately Take Five has a slight tick in it in much of the cut, (not horrible but slightly annoying). This one does have some surface noise in spots too but such is life on some older finds. Would you have a second choice on the album or one of the others below pique your interest?

Alternately I could offer Coltrane Giant Steps, Art Pepper Smackup (pick me) and Jennifer Warnes doing Famous Blue Rain Coat, those are all 45 rpm reissues. The other two I thought people may have familiarity with would be Miles Davis a German pressing of KOB, Bill Evans Waltz for Debby on Riverside and Miles Davis In Person at the Blackhawk, San Francisco which is a live recording.

You guys are kind with the compliments thanks. This place is about karma ain't it? I appreciate the short cut suggestions but I feel it might be helpful for all to get an idea of the anal compulsive side some of us (thinking of myself here) have evaluating some things so I think it will be fun to get a listen to the ART under all the different options and then move on to the others as well. Who knows maybe the Art likes the 12v ps while the VLPS likes the battery. I'm interested to try it and the Art on the battery to satisfy my curiosity too. Don't be surprised if we get divergence rather than consensus in some aspects.

There may be another contestant that has been brought to my attention although it may be tight getting it here in time. I will probably start recording tomorrow evening. I have brief meeting in the am then head out to the golf course if I don't get rained out.

Let me know on Teaser which cut is ok!

Cheers

 

[steely]

Don't be surprised if we get divergence rather than consensus in some aspects.

Surprised? I would EXPECT it! Makes things more interesting anyway...

Wow, you've got a lot on your plate. You sure you want to open this Pandora's Box?

Speaking for myself, I'm fine with whatever well-recorded cuts you think would make for good comparisons. BTW, I have a few original pressings of "Time Out" both in stereo and mono, and none of them is pristine. I'll take a less-than-perfect copy of "Take Five" over some other immaculate but inferior record any day!

 

[hoodie]

Scott, Blue Rondo a La Turk works for me . Honestly, what ever is easiest for you. We all are in debt to you and Glenn for doing this. :thmbsp:

_______
Matthew

 

[beatcomber]

Hoodie deserves kudos for sharing but I'm bummed I was hoping Beat would volunteer to send the Grado over.

It wouldn't be in the same system, so it wouldn't sound the same anyway. (Grados are pretty fussy about arms too.) I couldn't bear to be without it anyway... call me selfish!

Alternately I could offer Coltrane Giant Steps, Art Pepper Smackup (pick me) and Jennifer Warnes doing Famous Blue Rain Coat, those are all 45 rpm reissues. The other two I thought people may have familiarity with would be Miles Davis a German pressing of KOB, Bill Evans Waltz for Debby on Riverside and Miles Davis In Person at the Blackhawk, San Francisco which is a live recording.

All great albums, but don't bother with the Coltrane. It's a lousy recording! I'll bet the Art Pepper sounds nice... Roy DuNann's recordings always sound amazing. Did you know that it was recorded in the stockroom at Contemporary Records? That's where they set up a studio after business hours. That they got such great sound there is astounding.

Here's a shot of Art Pepper recording there - note the cartons of records everywhere:

 

[steelglam]

You are seriously super kind, Muddywaters. Though I echo what steely says...if you have too much going on right now, then please don't add to your stresses by trying to put this together before you leave. Hope your trip is taking you somewhere fun and exciting!

If you do get around to it, my vote would be anything from the Brubeck, Miles Davis, Bill Evans or Coltrane (beatcomber: fwiw, even if it is poorly recorded, I'm often just as impressed when a piece of equipment can make a poorly recorded thing sound good or decent as I am when it brings out the best in the well recorded thing). Muddywaters: My vote would be to pick your favorite track off of any of those albums.

 

[Muddywaters]

All great albums, but don't bother with the Coltrane. It's a lousy recording! I'll bet the Art Pepper sounds nice... Roy DuNann's recordings always sound amazing. Did you know that it was recorded in the stockroom at Contemporary Records? That's where they set up a studio after business hours. That they got such great sound there is astounding.

Here's a shot of Art Pepper recording there - note the cartons of records everywhere:

Great info it always amazes me the depth of knowledge here on AK. Thanks for sharing the picture it helps to get a deeper understanding of the album which is wonderful. Thanks!

You are seriously super kind, Muddywaters. Though I echo what steely says...if you have too much going on right now, then please don't add to your stresses by trying to put this together before you leave. Hope your trip is taking you somewhere fun and exciting!

If you do get around to it, my vote would be anything from the Brubeck, Miles Davis, Bill Evans or Coltrane (beatcomber: fwiw, even if it is poorly recorded, I'm often just as impressed when a piece of equipment can make a poorly recorded thing sound good or decent as I am when it brings out the best in the well recorded thing). Muddywaters: My vote would be to pick your favorite track off of any of those albums.

I don't leave for two weeks so I'll get the work started tonight and finish the Phase 1 maybe tomorrow night. I should be able to get some of phase two done tomorrow too.

The battery is due tomorrow and appears to be on schedule to arrive by the end of the day. Does it arrive charged ready to go? How long to top it off?

Depending on time and other things in life I may try and provide some clips of phase two with a Shure M91ED as a counterpoint to the Dyna.

I also will have a TCC 750LC courtesy of BrocLuno to blend into the mix. I'll need to get organized.

 

[beatcomber]

(beatcomber: fwiw, even if it is poorly recorded, I'm often just as impressed when a piece of equipment can make a poorly recorded thing sound good or decent as I am when it brings out the best in the well recorded thing).

I agree, but a poor recording will not allow equipment to fully demonstrate its capabilities, and would be a wasted opportunity in this case. Garbage in, garbage out.

You know the rule: The quality of the performance is usually the complete opposite of the recording quality, LOL.

 

[BrocLuno]

I was just wrapping up the TCC750LC to send off for the test, and I noticed that the supplied power supply was a modified half wave pseudo DC kind of wall wart. I suspect that TCC owners could benefit from pure DC power too :scratch2:

Since the TCC is also rated for 12VDC, maybe some way can be rigged to power it with the battery when it's turn comes up? You can whack the wall wart cable for the connector for all I care. I have plenty of spares - a whole tub of used wall warts

 

[jkilla]

I was just wrapping up the TCC750LC to send off for the test, and I noticed that the supplied power supply was a modified half wave pseudo DC kind of wall wart. I suspect that TCC owners could benefit from pure DC power too :scratch2:

Since the TCC is also rated for 12VDC, maybe some way can be rigged to power it with the battery when it's turn comes up? You can whack the wall wart cable for the connector for all I care. I have plenty of spares - a whole tub of used wall warts

Yup catman has written about the benefits of the TCC on DC battery. Would be cool to compare it to the rest!

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