Phono Pre: ART DJPRE II vs. DB Systems DB-8

[arcorob]

Good topic

I'm interested in the adventures of the battery approach and have a couple of head amps that are built ground up to operate that way. I've also had many pieces of gear I've felt have benefited with power supply upgrades both internal and add on external applications. Perhaps another thread would be in order for me to quell my curiosity from the technical angle not specific to any particular application. I know I've read some threads not necessarily on AK probing pros and cons of battery use with some dissent that just using a battery isn't always the panacea it would first appear. Sorry off topic//

I think you should start a thread. I am just wondering what devices might benefit from this. Certainly phono stages I would think...

 

[hoodie]

DB-8 nudies....

While on the subjects of modifying and bang for the buck phono stages (apologies to the OP) how's about the CNC Phono Pre collaboration?

_______
Matthew

 

[andruw000]

The op amps are circled in red, they are surface mount like most of the other components.

Can anyone post what the markings are on the op amps?

I opened mine up...Hard to see clearly but it appears the top line reads 9271 and the bottom line looks like a square root sign followed by EZ104.

Can someone else verify this?

 

[sachu888]

While on the subjects of modifying and bang for the buck phono stages (apologies to the OP) how's about the CNC Phono Pre collaboration?

_______
Matthew

I am using CNC MM Phonostage since last 2 years.It sounds better than most of the commercial Phonostages available in mid to high price range.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[hoodie]

ART DJ vs DB-8 comparison

ART preamp arrived very quickly (thank you Amazon). I powered it up and left it on for about 20 hrs. Don't know if matters that much but that's approximately the same amount of hours on the newer DB-8. Deck is a modded Planar 2 plugged into an MH Cruise Control 2.0 and the cartridge is a Nag MP-11. Album is Dire Straits ~ Brothers in Arms.
First impression of the ART with the standard wallwart is...well it's ok. Highs are slightly veiled, mids and lows are smooth, decent overall balance, don't detect much change between 100pf and 200pf. Actually it comes pretty close sonically to my old V-LPS and for $50 it's a pretty good preamp. Next was the DB-8 and it offers more without a doubt. Better overall balance, crisper highs, solid bottom, a wider and deeper sound stage. Both units are quiet with low floor noise.
Now comes the eye opener, I replaced the wallwart with a Pangea P-100 regulated power supply, dropped the needle and wow this little guy ROCKS! Stronger and tighter low end, the mids more pronounced, overall there is much better balance. The highs are still slightly veiled compared to the DB-8 and also the DB-8 is more transparent.
I still have to live with both units for while but honestly the DB-8 gets my vote.

_______
Matthew

 

[wushuliu]

I would not hesitate for a second to get the Bugle 2, which now comes with an enclosure to boot. The original had gotten high praise for a decade against >$1k pres.

That said, the ART DJPre is 1/4 or less the cost so not really apples to apples. If you're a newbie or cash-strapped then the ART seems a good choice. If DOY oriented and cash-strapped the Hypnotoad(?) Pre here on AK also seems a great choice. But if you have $200 then the Bugle 2 seems a no-brainer.

 

[arcorob]

I wouldnt put the Art in the cash strapped catagory

I would not hesitate for a second to get the Bugle 2, which now comes with an enclosure to boot. The original had gotten high praise for a decade against >$1k pres.

That said, the ART DJPre is 1/4 or less the cost so not really apples to apples. If you're a newbie or cash-strapped then the ART seems a good choice. If DOY oriented and cash-strapped the Hypnotoad(?) Pre here on AK also seems a great choice. But if you have $200 then the Bugle 2 seems a no-brainer.

I think it is a contender and 5 times the cost as evidenced (for me anyway) of it being superior to the HTMCPS,Pro-Ject Tube box, TC and Cambridge audio ...wish I had all at one to do a comparison or has friend in a stereo review who could do a head to head...Bugle, DB8, all of em....:yes:

 

[HypnoToad]

The Bugle 2 has better filtering for lower noise than the original.

The circuits are actually identical which shows that it's a good design.

If it's any help Fasterdamnit had a shootout between the HTMCPS and the original Bugle which he had upgraded with better op amps if I recall correctly.

 

[royphil345]

I wouldnt put the Art in the cash strapped catagory

I don't see any reason to. The parts quality and specs are similar to just about anything you can buy for less than a few hundred buck and if anything, the design looks more complex than many. There are $300.00+ units out there that are all surface mount besides filter caps. ART uses good film caps for the RIAA. Then, there's the fact it just plain sounds better than some... lol. I think Beatcomber's 12 volt battery needle drop sounds incredibly good.

That said, I've heard a needle drop done with a Bugle and I liked that a lot as well. I'm definitely planning on buying a Bugle2. I like that it's being offered as a full kit. Nice and simple...

Heck... You can buy a 40" hi-def TV for $350. What makes a simple little phono stage worth that, when you don't even really get any audiophile grade parts at that price? Just because we've been conditioned to be suckers doesn't necessarily mean a quality product can't be offered for less.

 

[arcorob]

Good post

I don't see any reason to. The parts quality and specs are similar to just about anything you can buy for less than a few hundred buck and if anything, the design looks more complex than many. There are $300.00+ units out there that are all surface mount besides filter caps. ART uses good film caps for the RIAA. Then, there's the fact it just plain sounds better than some... lol. I think Beatcomber's 12 volt battery needle drop sounds incredibly good.

That said, I've heard a needle drop done with a Bugle and I liked that a lot as well. I'm definitely planning on buying a Bugle2. I like that it's being offered as a full kit. Nice and simple...

Heck... You can buy a 40" hi-def TV for $350. What makes a simple little phono stage worth that, when you don't even really get any audiophile grade parts at that price? Just because we've been conditioned to be suckers doesn't necessarily mean a quality product can't be offered for less.

And exactly what I am all about...I have just seen to many cases of "hi end" stuff being built pretty tame...and then to see the inside of the ART ?

I thought about the VISTA and was turned off by the parts build...

I WOOULD like to try the Iphono (again, not apple related) and I hear from audiophiles that pay $1000's for phone stages that this one matches theirs...

I like that kind of recommendation plus just love how it is built...anyway..thats down the road...and $399 later...LOL..actually can get it from my friend for about $325

http://www.analogueseduction.net/category-702/IFIIPHONO.html

 

[steelglam]

Thanks, folks, for all of the very informative replies.

And thanks especially to hoodie for the extensive comparison of the ART and the DB-8.

So out of the three that have heard both the ART and DB-8, it's 2-1 in favor of the DB-8. Although Muddywaters also notes that his DB-8 has an upgraded power supply.

That is the running tally so far.

 

[arcorob]

I dont think thats significant

Thanks, folks, for all of the very informative replies.

And thanks especially to hoodie for the extensive comparison of the ART and the DB-8.

So out of the three that have heard both the ART and DB-8, it's 2-1 in favor of the DB-8. Although Muddywaters also notes that his DB-8 has an upgraded power supply.

That is the running tally so far.

Not at this juncture. It would be a more accurate gauge if there were some side by side needle drops - same table, same cart but one with the DB8 and one with the ART - both at the rated 12vdc

Then get feedback from listeners..

Make sense ?:yes:

 

[BrocLuno]

That's a plan

 

[hoodie]

Not at this juncture. It would be a more accurate gauge if there were some side by side needle drops - same table, same cart but one with the DB8 and one with the ART - both at the rated 12vdc

Then get feedback from listeners..

Make sense ?:yes:

Go for it

 

[beatcomber]

Yes, please do.

Even though I am very impressed with my ART + DC power, I am still very interested in the DC-8. I would be grateful for a chance to compare them.

 

[arcorob]

That would be

Go for it

For someone to do who says the DB8 is better because they actually own both...I can't say either way as I only own the ART and don't plan to switch unless its for the IFI IPHONO or the Phonomena II

But it should be fairly easy for those who have said they have both and like the DB8 better :thmbsp:

 

[steelglam]

Not at this juncture. It would be a more accurate gauge if there were some side by side needle drops - same table, same cart but one with the DB8 and one with the ART - both at the rated 12vdc

Then get feedback from listeners..

Make sense ?:yes:

I didn't say that anything was significant. An N of 3 is never going to be significant.

All I said was that there were 3 folks that posted in this thread so far that have heard both, and that two prefer the DB Systems while one prefers the ART.

And that is the RUNNING tally. Meaning, perhaps others will add their opinions if and when they have a chance to compare the two, and then we can add to the tally.

Posting comparative needle drops would also be nice, but I'm not going ask folks to do that. If they are so inclined, that would be great. But if not, no big deal.

 

[hoodie]

For someone to do who says the DB8 is better because they actually own both...I can't say either way as I only own the ART and don't plan to switch unless its for the IFI IPHONO or the Phonomena II

But it should be fairly easy for those who have said they have both and like the DB8 better :thmbsp:

Some day, maybe soon. Besides...it's your idea :thmbsp:

 

[Muddywaters]

Hope all had a wonderful Memorial weekend, (those that are US based), for all the overseas friends I hope you had a great weekend too.

I promised in the other thread to order the battery and do some testing for people. The battery is supposed to be here on the 30th so I should be able to get some recording done over the weekend.

Phase One
I'd like to give arcorob, beat and royphil an opportunity to pick out an album/cut they want me use for the following clips. (they have the most experience with the Art and particularly using the battery) Others certainly can chime in with suggestions which I consider for the second round. :thmbsp:

I'll record a clip five ways in this first test.

1) Included stock wall wart
2) 9v regulated ps
3) 12v regulated (same unit as above)
4) 12v alternative ps
these three ps above are AC/DC sorry I don't have any AC only ps to offer
5) 12v battery via Amazon
6) maybe have a duplicate of one of 2-5?

Once we give people plenty of time to assess the clips let's get the feedback into the thread and see if there is some consensus on which is the best result or maybe two if something doesn't emerge a clear cut favorite.

I will plan on using my modded Technics 1200. Currently I have a Dynavector 20X (high output with SoundSmith level 2 ruby cant and nude contact line stylus) on. If that isn't acceptable I have some other options mounted ready to be used.

Grace F9E with the SoundSmith replacement nude elliptical RS-9E (BLUE)
Nagaoka MP-50
Stanton 680 with LP Gear Vivid Line or Original D6807A
ADC integrated headshell with w/ZLM, Super XLM MK II might have another option have to check.

Phase Two if you're all really nice:yes: Using two tracks (maybe three) I'll record each
1)a Art with the preferred
b Art maybe with 2nd choice
2)a MF VLPS with battery
b MF VLPS 12v regulated ps
3) DB-8 (sorry mine has hard wired DB ps)
Maybe a surprise or two additional for the fun of it depending how I hold up or more importantly my wife with the repeated tracks...

I get to choose one of the 2nd phase tracks likely it will be Prokofieff Lieutenant Kiije CSO Riener, (its the Classic Records release)

I have a pretty varied collection of rock, jazz and classical so give me some ideas of what you might want and I can get started with phase one now.

I hope this sounds like a plan that works for all. Let me know what I missed. I forgot to mention my version of the ART is the non-usb DJ II. I've owned it for almost two years.

Bear with me on getting this done but arcorob, beatcomber and royphil345 toss some ideas out so I can get started with Phase One. Let's decide on something to listen to.

 

[BrocLuno]

That sound wonderful Really looking forward to your findings ...