Pioneer HPM 100B vs Heresy III

[davidwh1]

Folks,

I have a question - and I am looking for some real feedback please. I have a pair of restored HPM 100b's woth new crossovers. The cabinets are in great shape and I have replaced the defective bass, mids and tweeters over time with original but functioning parts. The crossovers were upgraded a year ago.

So....I have been looking at replacing them with Heresy III's - I like the Forte's as well but they are too tall for where I want to put them.

Can I get some feedback on what the thoughts are on sound difference. The are going into a common area with cathedral cielings - I am using them with a Marantz 2270 (restored) and a Technics Sl1200 Mk5 with an Ortofon Blue....9 times out of 10 I am listening to vinyl. I should note the room has wood floors.

 

[Nat]

I hope someone with better informed thoughts pipes up, but here's my take: Both speakers are fairly polarizing - many like them, many don't. At the same time, they don't sound much like each other, so liking one doesn't necessarily mean you'll like the other.
It doesn't sound like you intend to use a subwoofer, which might tend (in my mind) to balance out the sound produced by either speaker. But apparently you like the HPMs without a sub, so you may not agree with my view that both speakers are bright. For what it's worth, I would guess that the Heresys might produce a bigger sound in your listening area.
I've owned both speakers, and neither stayed long at all, so my tastes are probably different than yours, which is fine - you hear with your ears, and I hear with mine. But it does highlight the importance of trying to listen to speakers, and for more than a couple of minutes, before buying. Mine came very cheap, and I made money on them when they went, but it doesn't sound like you are buying to flip, so try to listen before plunking down your cash.

 

[davidwh1]

I hope someone with better informed thoughts pipes up, but here's my take: Both speakers are fairly polarizing - many like them, many don't. At the same time, they don't sound much like each other, so liking one doesn't necessarily mean you'll like the other.
It doesn't sound like you intend to use a subwoofer, which might tend (in my mind) to balance out the sound produced by either speaker. But apparently you like the HPMs without a sub, so you may not agree with my view that both speakers are bright. For what it's worth, I would guess that the Heresys might produce a bigger sound in your listening area.
I've owned both speakers, and neither stayed long at all, so my tastes are probably different than yours, which is fine - you hear with your ears, and I hear with mine. But it does highlight the importance of trying to listen to speakers, and for more than a couple of minutes, before buying. Mine came very cheap, and I made money on them when they went, but it doesn't sound like you are buying to flip, so try to listen before plunking down your cash.

First - well said on the "listen before you buy" - I don't use a sub because I use my Marantz 2270 receiver to power them and there is no sub out on them. The HPM's are in great shape and the upgraded crossovers and posts definitely made them more pronounced. I listen to many types of music jazz - country - rock - motown...etc. I agree that the HPM's can be harsh so I find myself occasionally pulling back on the treble. I am willing to lay out some cash - 3k - 3.5k for my next set of speakers that will last me for the next 10 yrs. I am struggling to find a selection that will give me that range. I look at the Heresy's and wonder...

 

[ctjetta]

I am willing to lay out some cash - 3k - 3.5k

. . . and you're looking at Heresys?!!! The Hereseys are good for what they are at the dollars they can be be gotten for (if, like said above, you like their sound) but you have soooo many more options with $3k + to spend.
I honestly couldn't begin to recommend speakers in that price range as the choices are so vast.
You need to better describe what you're looking for in a speaker before we can offer any help.
And where do you live- at least put your state in avatar?

 

[rwartner]

My thought is that Heresy are small satellite speakers. Meant for the fringes of larger speakers - maybe accompany Cornwalls. I don't see them as an upgrade to HPM-100. Sounds like what you are looking for is a certain size to fit somewhere.
Maybe take measurements and ask for opinions on something that will fit.

 

[davidwh1]

I thought I would add some pics to show you how I have them set up and any ideas for speakers that would fit in the general area would be helpful. You can see that the room is large and has wood floors - I need a speaker solution that can manage in that type of environment. My tastes in music are across the board - I do listen to a lot of rock and blues. A member asked me for my location - its Austin TX.

 

[davidwh1]

. . . and you're looking at Heresys?!!! The Hereseys are good for what they are at the dollars they can be be gotten for (if, like said above, you like their sound) but you have soooo many more options with $3k + to spend.
I honestly couldn't begin to recommend speakers in that price range as the choices are so vast.
You need to better describe what you're looking for in a speaker before we can offer any help.
And where do you live- at least put your state in avatar?

I added some pics of the area and I live in Austin TX

 

[ctjetta]

I added some pics of the area and I live in Austin TX

 

[David_NC]

First - well said on the "listen before you buy" - I don't use a sub because I use my Marantz 2270 receiver to power them and there is no sub out on them. The HPM's are in great shape and the upgraded crossovers and posts definitely made them more pronounced. I listen to many types of music jazz - country - rock - motown...etc. I agree that the HPM's can be harsh so I find myself occasionally pulling back on the treble. I am willing to lay out some cash - 3k - 3.5k for my next set of speakers that will last me for the next 10 yrs. I am struggling to find a selection that will give me that range. I look at the Heresy's and wonder...

Every Marantz receiver 'greater' than a 2030 that I've seen has pre-out / main-in jacks. That's where you can connect your subwoofer. You can use two pair of RCA's, if your sub has a high-pass filter, or use Y-adapters and a single pair of RCA's to connect that to the line in of the sub. Your mains will be running full range this way, but that's generally OK with larger speakers like yours. You can also run the speaker wires to the sub and then to the speakers, but that's potentially a lot of wires to run, depending on how you have everything situated. In my garage system, I run a pair of RCA's to from the pre-out jacks of an old Denon stereo receiver to my sub, and it sounds just fine.

 

[ctjetta]

I see the appeal of the Heresys for you- you're looking for something squat in stature.
Staying with something similar to what you already have it looks like you're looking for the classic 112" 3-way speaker- JBL L100s, AR 3s, etc . . .Or maybe maybe still a classic shelf speaker like an A/D/S. Smaller tower speakers like what Advent made could work- a little taller maybe, but, also a little narrower (there's got to be newer, better examples available as well).
I'm hoping there are others that might suggest some actual brands/models for you to consider.
@GD70 and @baco99 are just two of the knowledgeable members here who could offer some experienced advice.

 

[Nat]

When I've used subwoofers, I've always run wires to the subwoofer and from it to speakers, mostly because the subwoofer is usually closer to the speakers than the electronics. In this particular case, and given the relatively ample budget, it seems to be that two subwoofers would be better than one, and could be placed near the main speakers so using speaker wire would be relatively simple - the same length run used now, but to the subwoofer, and then short wires to the speakers.
I note that the speakers are on the floor (and at least one in a corner), and this may have a good deal to do with your satisfaction with their bass. I would have also suggested that the speakers may sound less bright at that location since that places the tweeters relatively low, but it appears that your seating is also quite low, so the tweeters may be close to ear level.

 

[Nat]

Alison Threes in the corners might be an excellent solution.

 

[davidwh1]

I see the appeal of the Heresys for you- you're looking for something squat in stature.
Staying with something similar to what you already have it looks like you're looking for the classic 112" 3-way speaker- JBL L100s, AR 3s, etc . . .Or maybe maybe still a classic shelf speaker like an A/D/S. Smaller tower speakers like what Advent made could work- a little taller maybe, but, also a little narrower (there's got to be newer, better examples available as well).
I'm hoping there are others that might suggest some actual brands/models for you to consider.
@GD70 and @baco99 are just two of the knowledgeable members here who could offer some experienced advice.

I looked at the JBL's. I think the only JBL products I have owned are in wall speakers for a home theater - I would have to think the new L100's are probably pretty nice. I was thinking of some classic speakers - but I dont want to go through the process of restoring a pair like I did with my HPM's. So - I am looking at new. I had thought about decent size book shelf speakers on stands but I worry about them not being able to fill the room. This "worry" is all assumption and not based on experience.

 

[davidwh1]

When I've used subwoofers, I've always run wires to the subwoofer and from it to speakers, mostly because the subwoofer is usually closer to the speakers than the electronics. In this particular case, and given the relatively ample budget, it seems to be that two subwoofers would be better than one, and could be placed near the main speakers so using speaker wire would be relatively simple - the same length run used now, but to the subwoofer, and then short wires to the speakers.
I note that the speakers are on the floor (and at least one in a corner), and this may have a good deal to do with your satisfaction with their bass. I would have also suggested that the speakers may sound less bright at that location since that places the tweeters relatively low, but it appears that your seating is also quite low, so the tweeters may be close to ear level.

I did not know you could string a woofer and a speaker like that. Interesting. You don't lose any power for the main speaker by having the sub on the same line?

 

[Hajidub]

Hardwood/tile floor guy here with HII's. Your HPM's to me sounded like refined Cerwin Vega's, punchy and full sounding. To match that punch you're going to need a powered sub with the HIII's. The 3's should kill the HPM's, as far as detail and sensitivity. Klipsch made me have to re-listen to everything I've ever heard because I heard stuff I've never heard before, but anything below 60Hz was lost. A powered sub (Dayton 10" for $100) and a square of yoga mat underneath (hard flooring reflects really badly), with the x-over set for everything below the Klipsch's range filled in nicely. Just my personal opinion, take it as you will.

 

[Nat]

If you are using a passive subwoofer, you will lose power to the main speakers, but almost all subwoofers are self powered nowadays. And, if you think about it, the reason people crank up the volume is almost always to increase the low bass - the high end takes little power to rip your ears off, but getting the air in a room to vibrate takes some power. Since the whole point of a subwoofer is to provide what you have been missing, even passive subwoofers are likely to be much more efficient in the very low end than the speakers they are paired with, and relieve them of the need to try to produce them inefficiently.
So the power loss may be less than you imagine - I had a gigantic Miller Sound passive subwoofer that I used with ADS 300s (I think that was the number, but the Visonik David size models). It had no effect on the volume of the ADS, but made them sound much bigger and live sized, which translated into louder. No idea if the efficiency matching was ideal, and couldn't do anything about it anyway, since passives are as loud as they are (unless you pot them down, which can be necessary), but the effect was very appealling.
Not to be heretical, but there is something soothing in equipment that does what it does, and can't be tweaked to do anything else - I spend a fair amount of time and hair tearing trying to get subwoofers matching exactly properly, which, of course, depends somewhat on the recording. So instead of accepting what is being heard, and enjoying it uncritically, I am tempted to fuss and fidget, which is the exact opposite of what I intended when I turned the stereo on.

 

[GD70]

How wedded to that speaker position are you? With a room that size, I immediately think big, definitely larger than the HPMs, something like ADS1590's. I say this model because of their shape for the space, if you plan to keep them in the same position. They are tall, and sport dual 10 inch woofers. If you can play with positioning away from those tucked in corners, they would be terrific, and open up lots of options. Some other ADS models would be the L980, L880, L810, or L710, or big 1530's, 910's.
If you go vintage, something like AR-3as' , KLH Fives are another great choice, keep in mind they may need restoration work. All of these speakers are not at all harsh or fatiguing. Bass is deep and smooth. I your room, at volume, you'll feel the air move when cranked.
Going in the other direction, you could go with some big JBLs, possibly Magnepans with a couple subs would be sublime. Lots of options out there.

 

[Grenadeslio]

One word, AR.

 

[ctjetta]

Just for clarification, davidwh1, a bookshelf speaker is any speaker designed not to sit directly on the floor. The JBL L100 or Large Advent are bookshelf speakers the same as the Epicure 5 or AR 18 (to use vintage examples) are bookshelf speakers.
So, A/D/S 520s or KEF 103.2s, are larger bookshelf speakers, just not as big as the classic 12" 3-way. All should be on stands of some sort.
There are many options for you. You just need to really figure out what you're looking for in a replacement.

 

[djnagle]

This is just my opinion and everyone's taste in speaker is different....that said. I had every one of the Klipsch Heritage line over time and the issue I had was the mid horn and the tweeter horn produced somewhere around 15db peaks that hurt my ears when I turned the music up above back ground listening. Those horns were developed back before solid state and tube amp did not put out a lot of power. The horn was used for amplification. We have come a LONG way since them. The Pioneers are much smoother and still produce the fine detail as the horn in a Klipsch. Also, the newer Klipsch horns are not Exponential like the old horns so they are smoother as well.

And ctjetta is right. Got to get your speakers off the floor. If not, the bass gets muddy.