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Pioneer SA-800 Recap

cockroach

cockroach

Member
Since I need to order some parts from Mouser anyway, I figured it might be time to finally order the things needed to recap my SA-800 and I would appreciate a bit of feedback.

I tried to find caps that were as close to the original specs as I could find (in capacity / voltage as well as physical dimensions) but in some I failed and used slightly higher values instead. Also, I noticed that people usually seem to order Nichicon capacitors but in some cases I couldn't find anything matching the parts I need so I used parts by someone else – does it matter?

As for the transistors, I just copied those types from other threads where similar replacements were made. I have no idea which parts of transistor specs are relevant (other than the NPN vs. PNP thing) so feel free to tell me if I'm doing something stupid. Also, I'm not sure I should mess with the transistors at all. Does it make sense to replace them proactively?

So anyway, here's the list of parts that I came up with:

Misc – Capacitors

A bit of a rocky start. These capacitors are huge and sit in special holders, I'll probably need some sort of padding construction to install any of the tiny replacement caps that I could find.
  • C33 (C52-088-B, 4700uF, 50V, 40mm / 6mm): ALP22A472DD100 (100V) or UVR1J472MRD (63V, 22mm)
  • C34 (C52-088-B, 4700uF, 50V, 40mm / 6mm): ALP22A472DD100 (100V) or UVR1J472MRD (63V, 22mm)
  • C35 (ACH-001-B, 1000uF, 63V, 31mm / 4.8mm): LKG1K152MESBBK (80V) or UVR2A102MRD6 (100V, 20mm)
Head Amp Unit – Capacitors
  • C1 (CSSA 010X 25: 1uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:5mm): UFG1H010MDM (50V)
  • C2 (CSSA 010X 25: 1uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:5mm): UFG1H010MDM (50V)
  • C3 (CEA 470P 25: 47uF, 25V, 85°C, d:8mm, pins:6mm): UKZ1H470MPM1TD (50V)
  • C4 (CEA 470P 25: 47uF, 25V, 85°C, d:8mm, pins:6mm): UKZ1H470MPM1TD (50V)
  • C5 (CEA 100P 25: 10uF, 25V, d:7mm, pins:6mm): UFG1H100MDM (50V, 5mm)
  • C6 (CEA 100P 25: 10uF, 25V, d:7mm, pins:6mm): UFG1H100MDM (50V, 5mm)
  • C15 (CEA 101P 35: 100uF, 35V, 85°C, d:18mm, pins:10mm): UKZ2A101MHM1TN (100V, 16mm) or UKZ1H101MHM (50V, 12.5mmV)
Head Amp Unit – Semiconductors
  • Q1 (Transistor 2SC1000-BL): KSC1845FTA
  • Q2 (Transistor 2SC1000-BL): KSC1845FTA
  • Q3 (Transistor 2SC1000-BL, GR): KSC1845FTA
  • Q4 (Transistor 2SC1000-BL, GR): KSC1845FTA
  • Q5 (Transistor 2SC1000-BL, GR): KSC1845FTA
  • Q6 (Transistor 2SC1000-BL, GR): KSC1845FTA
Control Amp Unit – Capacitors

In my amp, C3, 4, 7 and 8 differ significantly from what's in the manual. In the case of C3 and C4 it might not matter, but C7 and C8 are quite a bit smaller than specified. Should I go with the large (30uF, 6V) from the manual or the small (7uF, 25V) currently installed? Or order both, and see what happens?
  • C3 (CEA 300P 6: 30uF, 6V (current: 33uF, 10V), d:6mm, pins:5mm): UFG1E330MEM1TD (33uF, 25V)
  • C4 (CEA 300P 6: 30uF, 6V (current: 33uF, 10V), d:6mm, pins:5mm): UFG1E330MEM1TD (33uF, 25V)
  • C7 (CEA 300P 6: 30uF, 6V 4.7uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:2mm): UFG1H4R7MDM (50V)
  • C8 (CEA 300P 6: 30uF, 6V 4.7uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:2mm): UFG1H4R7MDM (50V)
  • C11 (CEA 100P 25: 10uF, 25V, d:7mm, pins:6mm): UKZ2A100MPM1TD (10uF, 100V) or UFG1H100MDM (10uF, 50V, 5mm/2mm)
  • C12 (CEA 100P 25: 10uF, 25V, d:7mm, pins:6mm): UKZ2A100MPM1TD (10uF, 100V) or UFG1H100MDM (10uF, 50V, 5mm/2mm)
  • C13 (CEA 100P 25: 10uF, 25V, d:7mm, pins:6mm): UKZ2A100MPM1TD (10uF, 100V) or UFG1H100MDM (10uF, 50V, 5mm/2mm)
  • C14 (CEA 100P 25: 10uF, 25V, d:7mm, pins:6mm): UKZ2A100MPM1TD (10uF, 100V) or UFG1H100MDM (10uF, 50V, 5mm/2mm)
  • C15 (CEA 500P 25: 220uF, 35V, d:13mm, pins:10mm): UFG1H331MHM (330uF, 50V)
Control Amp Unit – Semiconductors
  • Q3 (Transistor 2SC458LG): KSC1815YTA
  • Q4 (Transistor 2SC458LG): KSC1815YTA
  • Q5 (Transistor 2SC458LG): KSC1815YTA
  • Q6 (Transistor 2SC458LG): KSC1815YTA
Filter Unit – Capacitors
  • C5 (CEA 010P 25: 1uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:5mm): UFG1H010MDM (50V) or MKS2B041001C00JSSD (50V, film)
  • C6 (CEA 010P 25: 1uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:5mm): UFG1H010MDM (50V) or MKS2B041001C00JSSD (50V, film)
  • C11 (CEA 100P 16: 10uF, 16V, d:6mm, pins:5mm): UKZ2A100MPM1TD (10uF, 100V) or UFG1H100MDM (10uF, 50V, 5mm/2mm)
  • C12 (CEA 100P 16: 10uF, 16V, d:6mm, pins:5mm): UKZ2A100MPM1TD (10uF, 100V) or UFG1H100MDM (10uF, 50V, 5mm/2mm)
  • C17 (CEA 221P 25: 220uF, 25V, d:13mm, pins:10mm): UKZ1E221MHM
Filter Unit – Semiconductors
  • Q1 (Transistor 2SC870-E or F): KSC1845FTA
  • Q2 (Transistor 2SC870-E or F): KSC1845FTA
Main Amp Unit – Capacitors
  • C1 (CSSA 010X 25: 1uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:6mm): UFG1H010MDM (50V)
  • C2 (CSSA 010X 25: 1uF, 25V, d:5mm, pins:6mm): UFG1H010MDM (50V)
  • C9 (CEA 221P 10: 220uF, 10V, 10mm): UFG1C221MPM1TD (16V)
  • C10 (CEA 221P 10: 220uF, 10V, 10mm): UFG1C221MPM1TD (16V)
  • C11 (CEA 220P 6: 22uF, 6V (current: 6.3V), 5mm): UKZ2A220MPM (100V) or UFG1E220MDM1TD (25V, pins: 2mm)
  • C12 (CEA 220P 6: 22uF, 6V (current: 6.3V), 5mm): UKZ2A220MPM (100V) or UFG1E220MDM1TD (25V, pins: 2mm)
  • C13 (CEA 101P 50: 100uF, 50V, 13mm): UKZ1H101MHM
  • C14 (CEA 101P 50: 100uF, 50V, 13mm): UKZ1H101MHM
Main Amp Unit – Semiconductors

I think I'll leave Q11~14 alone for now.
  • Q1 (Transistor 2SA572-4B): KSA992FBU
  • Q2 (Transistor 2SA572-4B): KSA992FBU
  • Q3 (Transistor 2SA572-4B): KSA992FBU
  • Q4 (Transistor 2SA572-4B): KSA992FBU
  • Q5 (Transistor 2SC627-1): KSC3503DSTU
  • Q6 (Transistor 2SC627-1): KSC3503DSTU
  • Q7 (Transistor 2SC497-0): KSC2383YTA
  • Q8 (Transistor 2SC497-0): KSC2383YTA
  • Q9 (Transistor 2SA497-0): KSA1013
  • Q10 (Transistor 2SA497-0): KSA1013
  • Q11 (Transistor 2SC793-Y): MJ21194G
  • Q12 (Transistor 2SC793-Y): MJ21194G
  • Q13 (Transistor 2SC793-Y): MJ21194G
  • Q14 (Transistor 2SC793-Y): MJ21194G
Protector Unit – Capacitors
  • C3 (CEA 221P 10: 220uF, 10V, d:10mm, pins:6mm): UFG1C221MPM1TD (16V) or UPW1V221MPD (35V)
  • C4 (CEA 221P 10: 220uF, 10V, d:10mm, pins:6mm): UFG1C221MPM1TD (16V) or UPW1V221MPD (35V)
  • C5 (CEA 101P 16: 100uF, 16V, d:10mm, pins:6mm): UFG1V101MPM (35V) or UPW1J101MPD (63V)
Protector Unit – Semiconductors
  • Q1 (Transistor 2SC983-0): KSC2383YTA
  • Q2 (Transistor 2SC983-0): KSC2383YTA
  • Q3 (Transistor 2SC945-R): KSC1845FTA
  • Q4 (Transistor 2SC945-R): KSC1845FTA
  • Q5 (Transistor 2SA572-4): KSA992FBU
  • Q6 (Transistor 2SC968-2): KSC2383YTA
  • Q7 (Transistor 2SC495P-Y): KSC2690AYS (may not fit), MJE181 or KSD794AYSTU
Power Supply Unit – Capacitors
  • C5 (CEA 101P 50: 100uF, 50V, d:13mm, pins:10mm): UPW2A101MHD (100V) or UPW1J101MPD (63V, 10mm/5mm)
  • C7 (CEA 221P 35: 220uF, 35V, d:13mm, pins:10mm): UPW1V221MPD (10mm)
  • C8 (CEA 331P 25: 330uF, 25V, d:13mm, pins:10mm): UPW1J331MHD1TD (63V)
Power Supply Unit – Semiconductors
  • Q1 (Transistor 2SD234-0): KSC2073TU
  • Q2 (Transistor 2SC373): KSC2383YTA
Where possible, I tried to stick with the recommendations from the SA-1000 transistor list. If anyone would find a bit of time to comment on any of this, that would be appreciated.
 
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For the big caps I would use Nichicon VR for all three. Good price and great specs. Forgo the clamps and mount them underneath the chassis.

On the 1uF's, keep them that value. I have a hard time believing you can't find that value in a high voltage.
Use whatever value is in the receiver, not the service manual.
 
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I like to use a few type of capacitors according their destination. In Marantz I used Elna Silmic II (audiograde capacitor) and WIMA for lower values( 1uF to 4.7uF). Elna are more expensive than others capacitors.
In other units I used Nichicon premium or high grade capacitors like UKZ, UFG and sometimes UKA ones.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nichicon-finegold-capacitors.406997/
In power supply unit I used UPW series
In signal path I tried WIMA, UES or UKL series
In head amp UKZ or UFG series.
For main capacitors KG or Kemet.
 
paul_ral said:
I like to use a few type of capacitors according their destination. In Marantz I used Elna Silmic II (audiograde capacitor) and WIMA for lower values( 1uF to 4.7uF). Elna are more expensive than others capacitors.
In other units I used Nichicon premium or high grade capacitors like UKZ, UFG and sometimes UKA ones.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nichicon-finegold-capacitors.406997/
In power supply unit I used UPW series
In signal path I tried WIMA, UES or UKL series
In head amp UKZ or UFG series.
For main capacitors KG or Kemet.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that helps reduce the options. I'll go over the list and swap some parts.
 
ivandezande said:
For the big caps I would use Nichicon VR for all three. Good price and great specs. Forgo the clamps and mount them underneath the chassis.

On the 1uF's, keep them that value. I have a hard time believing you can't find that value in a high voltage.
Use whatever value is in the receiver, not the service manual.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll use those then. As for the 1uF's, I can't seem to find any for 25V on Mouser; I *could* use 35V instead, they have those. That shouldn't be a problem, right?
 
For big caps I like to choose between snap-in or screw terminal types. These caps are long life, high ripple current and fit in your clamps.
e.g. LKG1J472MESCCK which is 35mm diameter or 80-ALP22A472DD100 40mm one. This Kemet is a audio grade capacitor at 100V and suit perfect in your clamps
 
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cockroach said:
Thanks, I'll use those then. As for the 1uF's, I can't seem to find any for 25V on Mouser; I *could* use 35V instead, they have those. That shouldn't be a problem, right?
Click to expand...
You can always go up in voltage. I only have 1uF @ 100V in stock. Same size as what it's replacing.
 
Assuming C35 has 30mm diameter, my options for these huge capacitors are
1. LKG1K152MESBBK (1500uF at 80V) for C35 and 2 x LKG1J472MESCCK (4700uF at 63V) for C33, C34. You need to fil 5mm space between cap and clamp
2. ALC40D152CC100 (1500uF at 100V) for C35 and 2 x ALP22A472DD100 (4700uF al 100V) for C33, C34. Straight fit
 
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The capacitors on the Protection Board (W28-007) are polarized types, your list has Nichicon ES bipolar types.
Protection Board Restored.jpg
For the 1µF input high-pass capacitors, you can use 1µF WIMA stacked film types (e.g., MKS2 with 5mm lead spacing or MKS02 with 2.5mm lead spacing). The transistors that require replacement are the failure prone 2SC458LG transistors on the Control Amp Unit (W15-050); the KSC1815 is a better match for 2SC458LG than the KSC1845 (Ic=50mA is lower than stock transistor Ic=100mA). Also it is worthwhile to increase the local decoupling capacitor to ≥330µF from the stock 220µF stock value on the Control Amp since this will typically eliminate the turn-off "pop" in this model due to the delayed release of the protection relay.
 
ivandezande said:
You can always go up in voltage. I only have 1uF @ 100V in stock. Same size as what it's replacing.
Click to expand...

Ah okay, thanks, so more voltage is fine; that should make things a bit easier. A lot of information to digest at the moment, I will be going over the list for a bit and keep improving it.
 
paul_ral said:
Assuming C35 has 30mm diameter, my options for these huge capacitors are
1. LKG1K152MESBBK (1500uF at 80V) for C35 and 2 x LKG1J472MESCCK (4700uF at 63V) for C33, C34. You need to fil 5mm space between cap and clamp
2. ALC40D152CC100 (1500uF at 100V) for C35 and 2 x ALP22A472DD100 (4700uF al 100V) for C33, C34. Straight fit
Click to expand...

I understand that the voltage value is the maximum allowed for the capacitor, so it won't matter if it's too high. However, if I use at 1500uF cap instead of 1000uF, won't that mess things up?
 
cockroach said:
I understand that the voltage value is the maximum allowed for the capacitor, so it won't matter if it's too high. However, if I use at 1500uF cap instead of 1000uF, won't that mess things up?
Click to expand...
Nope. You need to understand the function each cap serves, these are just power filters. However, if you put in say 2,200uF or higher that would be an issue because of the strain on the preceding components.
Also good god those are expensive. Absolute waste of money if you ask me. You could get all three caps I recommended for less than the price of one KG filter....
 
ivandezande said:
Nope. You need to understand the function each cap serves, these are just power filters. However, if you put in say 2,200uF or higher that would be an issue because of the strain on the preceding components.
Also good god those are expensive. Absolute waste of money if you ask me. You could get all three caps I recommended for less than the price of one KG filter....
Click to expand...

Oh, expensive indeed. Also, the ALC40D152CC100 is not on stock. The VRs might be a much less insane choice...
 
Leestereo said:
The capacitors on the Protection Board (W28-007) are polarized types, your list has Nichicon ES bipolar types.
View attachment 1838165
For the 1µF input high-pass capacitors, you can use 1µF WIMA stacked film types (e.g., MKS2 with 5mm lead spacing or MKS02 with 2.5mm lead spacing). The transistors that require replacement are the failure prone 2SC458LG transistors on the Control Amp Unit (W15-050); the KSC1815 is a better match for 2SC458LG than the KSC1845 (Ic=50mA is lower than stock transistor Ic=100mA). Also it is worthwhile to increase the local decoupling capacitor to ≥330µF from the stock 220µF stock value on the Control Amp since this will typically eliminate the turn-off "pop" in this model due to the delayed release of the protection relay.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You mention a 220µF capacitor on the Control Amp, but I can't seem to find that anywhere (in the manual). Would you mind elaborating?
 
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