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Pioneer SA-9800 - what to do?

Actually, I might have some spare mica insulators since I replaced the four outputs on the SA-7800 with newer equivalents with a different case style. I'll have a look, let me know if you don't win the auction.

Lee.
 
leesonic said:
Actually, I might have some spare mica insulators since I replaced the four outputs on the SA-7800 with newer equivalents with a different case style. I'll have a look, let me know if you don't win the auction.

Lee.
Click to expand...

Thanks but i won the auction. Just need to wait until they get here and see if they fit.
 
Some bad news. I was gonna order the things yesterday but it turns out to cost around 150$ and that is to much. I could just order the transistors but then i need to pay the shipping of 40$ so that is still to much. I am hoping that i can place my order together with someone so i at least can get the transistors, diodes and the trimmers. The capacitors can be found here in Europe.

But for now i need to finish up my paint job. It could be worse but it could also be better. Will have to see if i can fix it or not.
 
I actually ended up with removing the paint on almost all of the items. I figured that i would never do a really good job.

At the moment i am waiting for the paint on the transformers to dry. Those i did do a good job with. :) Then it is time to put the chassi together and see how it looks.
 
markthefixer said:
The DISPLAY SHOWS what is coming out of the power amplifier. Just SHOWS. If the amp is misbehaving, and there is no meter indication, it's NOT the meter's fault, it is the amplifier's fault.


I am WORKING on the list as fast as I CAN.... You MUST LIST the parts lists you find BEFORE you use them, so they can be evaluated and corrected as needed. Just because there's a LIST, doesn't mean that it will WORK...

And if the AMPLIFIER is misbehaving, DO NOT BLINDLY charge on ahead. This is a NSA amp, you can cause enough damage that the OTHER channel will BE DAMAGED TOO. No kidding. I have SEEN it happen! I have had pieces of transistor fly past my nose in clouds of smoke. It is a VERY unforgiving circuit.

There are transistors in it that run hot enough to damage their solder joints, because of improper engineering choices. I KNOW how to fix this, but it takes TIME to translate the changes from the sx-3800/3900, sx-d5000/d7000 to this one.

Power Supply
awr-194 c2 220uf 80v ceb-axial 220 100 647-TVX2A221MCD
awr-194 c3 220uf 80v ceb-axial 220 100 647-TVX2A221MCD
awr-194 c4 47uf 10v cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awr-194 c7 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c8 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c9 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c10 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c13 2.2uf 50v cea 2.2 50 647-UPW1H2R2MDD
awr-194 c14 2.2uf 50v cea 2.2 50 647-UPW1H2R2MDD
awr-194 c15 100uf 35v cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD1TD
awr-194 c16 100uf 35v cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD1TD
awr-194 q1 2sc1735 pwr pass + 100v .5a .8w 512-KSC2690AYS to-126 30 to 300 hfe 130mhz to-92
awr-194 q2 2sc1735 pwr pass - 100v .5a .8w 512-KSC2690AYS to-126 30 to 300 hfe 130mhz to-92
awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
awr-194 q5 2sk34 leave alone, unobtanium
awr-194 q6 2sk34 leave alone, unobtanium
awr-194 q7 2sc1914 fb ampl + 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSC1845FTA (ln)to-92 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
awr-194 q8 2sa904 fb ampl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA992FBU (ln)to-92 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
awr-194 q9 2sc945 lv err amp + 50v 0.1a 0.25w 512-KSC2383YBU to-92L 600hfe 250mhz to-92
awr-194 q10 2sa733 lv err amp - 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q11 2sd712 lv pass + 100 4a 30w 863-MJE15032G pnp to-220 55to300hfe 8mhz to-220
awr-194 q12 2sb682 lv pass - 100 4a 30w 863-MJE15033G pnp to-220 55to300hfe 8mhz to-220
awr-194 d1 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d2 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d3 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d4 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d5 xz-060 main zener 6v zener 0.5w 512-1n5233b
awr-194 d6 1s2473 fast 100v 0.1a 512-1n4148
awr-194 d7 1s2473 fast 100v 0.1a 512-1n4148
awr-194 d8 10E2 power 400v 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d9 10E2 power 400v 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d10 mz-177 shunt reg 17v zener 0.5w 512-1N5247B
Click to expand...


awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c:scratch2::scratch2:
 
elektronror said:
Some bad news. I was gonna order the things yesterday but it turns out to cost around 150$ and that is to much. I could just order the transistors but then i need to pay the shipping of 40$ so that is still to much. I am hoping that i can place my order together with someone so i at least can get the transistors, diodes and the trimmers. The capacitors can be found here in Europe.
Click to expand...

Isn't there anywhere nearer Sweden you could get parts from? What about RS Components in the UK? I would have said Maplin, but they've gone the way that Radio Shack did, and cut back on their discrete components.

Lee.
 
I have just started searching for other alternatives but so far no luck. But finding someone that will order from Mouser should not be so hard so that is what i am hoping for.
 
petehall347 said:
awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c:scratch2::scratch2:
Click to expand...

That does not look right. Can anyone say if that is the replacements? Strange it slipped through our eyes.
 
I have now also measured all the diodes and transistors and only one diode was shorted. Don't know if any of them have to high leakage current etc. since i only have a multimeter. The result from the bad diode is that R20 have drifted a little (370ohm) but it has gone VERY warm and i think it has been replaced before since the solders on the pins is exactly the same as on the 1.2k resistors which means not original.
My bet is that sometime that diode shorted and the owner replaced R20 and R5 but then sold it since it still didn't work.

On some of the resistors there are a fabric(?) insulator, some of them are bad so should i replace them with something?
 
elektronror said:
awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
Click to expand...
That does not look right. Can anyone say if that is the replacements? Strange it slipped through our eyes.
Click to expand...

This is correct as referred to in the service manual, BOTH the positive regulator and the negative regulator use Sziklai pairs.

In electronics, the Sziklai pair (also known as a "complementary feedback pair" (CFP) or "compound transistor") is a configuration of two bipolar transistors, similar to a Darlington pair.[1] In contrast to the Darlington arrangement, the Sziklai pair has one NPN and one PNP transistor, and so it is sometimes also called the "complementary Darlington". Current gain is similar to that of a Darlington pair, which is the product of the gains of the two transistors. The configuration is named for its early popularizer, George C. Sziklai.

One advantage over the Darlington pair is that the base turn-on voltage is only about 0.6V or half of the Darlington's 1.2V nominal turn-on voltage. Like the Darlington, it can saturate only to 0.6V, which is a drawback for high-power stages.
Click to expand...
 
elektronror said:
I have now also measured all the diodes and transistors and only one diode was shorted. Don't know if any of them have to high leakage current etc. since i only have a multimeter. The result from the bad diode is that R20 have drifted a little (370ohm) but it has gone VERY warm and i think it has been replaced before since the solders on the pins is exactly the same as on the 1.2k resistors which means not original.
My bet is that sometime that diode shorted and the owner replaced R20 and R5 but then sold it since it still didn't work.

On some of the resistors there are a fabric(?) insulator, some of them are bad so should i replace them with something?
Click to expand...

WHICH diode??


I TOLD you, an ENTIRE CIRCUIT WAS RAPED HERE. THOSE MODIFICATIONS MUST BE PUT BACK TO ORIGINAL!!!!!!!
AND the EMPTY transistor positions in your pictures MUST be FILLED.

markthefixer said:
The protection circuitry has been gutted and the relay is apparently forced on continuously.

This is a SERIOUS danger that must be corrected, HOUSE FIRES have started because of abominations like this.

If I knew that a professional did this, I would run him out of business.

I would take an amateur's soldering iron away from him, and notify his insurance company.

This guy knew just enough to be dangerous. :gigglemad

The really frightening thing is that those resistors look like Pioneer factory resistors, so we may have to find out where he stole them from.
Click to expand...

Those missing transistors and capacitors? THEY ARE (WERE) THE PROTECTION CIRCUIT, his modification was to run the protection relay continuously!!!!!!!!

attachment.php
 
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markthefixer said:
This is correct as referred to in the service manual, BOTH the positive regulator and the negative regulator use Sziklai pairs.
Click to expand...

i noticed this first and its still not making sense to me ....
awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c

how can they both be KSA1013YBU ? with different ratings as well ..:scratch2:
 
petehall347 said:
i noticed this first and its still not making sense to me ....
awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c



how can they both be KSA1013YBU ? with different ratings as well ..:scratch2:
Click to expand...

THEY ARE, LOOK AT THE SCHEMATIC!!!!

PLEASE don't distract him from the main issue, :nono: which has happened once already, the issue - the rape of the protection circuits.

both probably started as a733's, then some fault zapped q4, so they increased the voltage. The a1013 has enough gain, and current drive
512-KSA1013YBU to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.34 (R=60-120, O=100/200, Y=160/320)
512-KSC2383YTA to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.17
Click to expand...
for that position, even under some fault conditions.
 
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Seems strange that KSC1013 can replace both of them since they are so odd from each other but your're the pro.

The protection circuit has been gutted by ME since i was gonna test the transistors and diodes. Nothing was removed when i got it.

The shorted diode is D10, forgot to mention that.
 
elektronror said:
Seems strange that KSC1013 can replace both of them since they are so odd from each other but your're the pro.
Click to expand...
They're both PNP, and their SOA (voltage) ratings are higher or equal to the original part. In an overly simplified way (which is often enough), that's "all" that matters. Transistors aren't as complicated as they may appear. :)

If you cannot find the exact transistors that you see in that chart (which indeed is not going to be likely), just look for similar alternatives. In this field, almost every time you need a transistor, you'll need to go through that process.

www.alltransistors.com is the best resource on the web for comparing transistors. Just open two tabs, one with the original, and one with the part you hope will work, then click between them and look for differences.
 
the thing that confused me was this ....
KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
 
ksa1013r to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 60-120hfe
ksa1013o to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 100-200hfe
ksa1013y to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe

old data from old files, updated data from new files, mixed in old and new posts and spreadsheets, text files and whatnot.

look up the datasheet, the data's all there. Old crap could have had typos. One (of my own) typos in the ksd1616 had me thinking the c-e voltage was 100 volts higher.
 
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