• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Pioneer Sx-1010: Newbie audiophile needs guidance

The fuse was blown. That fixed pin 6

with power off i get NO ohms across the resistor

with power ON i get 13.9 on the side opposite the corner of the heat sink, -54 on the side near the corner.

across the leads with power on i get -68.4

Also took the resistor OUT and tested it out of circuit.
 

Attachments

  • photo.JPG
    photo.JPG
    56 KB · Views: 20
Last edited:
Resistor blown. 10 ohm 1/4watt carbon film. metal film will do.

for now any 10 ohm resistor to test. BUT 1/4w intended to blow on overload. 1/2w+ might allow more damage up the line in the supply. So might wanna wait for the right one. Your decision.

without pin 10's voltage nothing proceeds.

radio shack:
Model: 271-1301 | Catalog #: 271-1301
10 ohm 1/4W 5% Carbon Film Resistor pk/5

Price:
$1.49

use the store locator link on the page for online stock check.
 
Last edited:
So I bought those resistors from radio shack. I tested all five on the same OHM setting as the resistor I took out and they all vary in the numbers I get. Shouldnt they all say "10" on the DMM?
 
nevermind. I found out that the banana clip leads I was using have a lot of added resistance that seems to change as I move the wires. UHG. With just the probes the resistors I bought seem to be within spec
 
Resistor replaced! Here are the latest readings. Looks good no?

Check power supply voltages:
Board AWR-054A
Pin 6 about 7v, IS: 6.0
Pin 7 0.0V is -0.00 <-------- should this be a negative number?
Pin 8 should be +13.4V, IS:12.9
Pin 9 should be -13 V, IS: -12
Pin 10 should be -56V, IS: -53.7
Pin 11 should be -24V, IS: -21.8
Pin 12 0.0
Pin 13 should be +35V, IS: 35.5
Pin 14 should be +56V, IS: 54.6
Pin 15 should be +24v, IS: 24.7

also noticed that the speaker relay protection switch is clicking on and off somewhat randomly as the unit sits powered on. Is that becuause the DBT is choking it and the caps are charging up enough to turn them off, then the unit not having enough power and then clicking off again? I did not replace the switch because it looks brand new and has no burning or cooroded look to it. It also worked find before I started having problem and always clicked on after 5 seconds.

DBT status: Slightly brighter faint orange glow of the filament than before replacing the resistor.
 
Last edited:
yes, things are looking MUCH better, and you have a few spares "just in case"... although we will TRY to avoid that !! :D

No sweat on that -0.0, the meter can't resolve it, and there is always a little variation, especially if it is a power return ground pin. That's why I stress a bare metal chassis ground point.

I will need to reread the thread with this new information in mind to get into the proper space in my head for the next stuff and should be posting that later today hopefully.
 
Power output transistors removed, power amp boards just sitting there, no extra resistors connected to pins 10 and 13?

Have you been reading the craxx6969 thread?

We are at the point of having to "fool" the amplifier into balancing without output transistors in place.
There is something missing with the output transistors removed in this particular amplifier circuit, it's called DC feedback, and without it there's no balancing so the teeter totter is all the way one direction or the other ("railed").
IF it balances we should get +0.6v on one pin and -0.6v on the other pin, and that means it is NOT telling the output transistors to do anything crazy (damaging).

plus - the pulled transistors? did we test them was this the case of finding two bad ones and 6 good? or do I have my threads mixed.
 
q: Power output transistors removed, power amp boards just sitting there, no extra resistors connected to pins 10 and 13?

a: The power output trans are OUT and the power boards are sitting there, completed. No "extra" resistors installed. Though I don't know what these extra ones are you decribed.

q: Have you been reading the craxx6969 thread?

a: No. I may have, that might be the one I read and then did something wrong and got yelled at. :P

q: the pulled transistors? did we test them was this the case of finding two bad ones and 6 good?

a: They are sitting in a pile. I only ran a "beeeeep" test for continuity and sorted them "this pile make a beep" and "this pile does not make a beep". There were TWO that seemed to be different than the others. If there is a simple way to actually test them I can do that, BUT I have NEW ones from Mouser ON THE WAY just in case. I would rather just put new ones in since everything else ON this thing is new already, might as well make it pristine and 100% new now that I am this far. I don't want to have to open it up again in a year and go through this troubleshooting again! :)

q: or do I have my threads mixed.

a: You are just so damn cool that you help people out this way! But yes. I think you remembered correctly.


IN any case, I just put the OLD/ORIGINAL transformer BACK in. I used butt connectors this time and shrink wrap over the butts. I then went back and retested the pins on the power board and everything is just the same. I then organized the wires back to where they are supposed to be to "button up" the underside of the unit now that we are moving on to the top side. That ok?
 
went back and read through that other thread again. I think there is way too much happening for me to understand any order I should do things in. I see references to adding some resistors but can't find a specific place or where to put them!!! UHG.
 
went back and read through that other thread again. I think there is way too much happening for me to understand any order I should do things in. I see references to adding some resistors but can't find a specific place or where to put them!!! UHG.

RC,

My post at #138 has photos of the set up of the resistors that I placed on Pins 10 and 13 with a common wire on Pin 19. This works and allows you to diagnose issues on one of the 032 boards.
 
Hmm. kinda helps. But I dont know what sort of resistors those are or the values and I cant find where they get attached and how. Read back and forward from that point and I am little, ok, A LOT, confused on how to proceed. I dont want to short anything out... again. Do I do this one board at a time? both boards at the same time? once they are attached then what? I need orders of operations otherwise I mess things up.

is this one right?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIEJHK4KR1%2bQTY3a8vjBnyto=

I would like to get something radioshack might stock in the store instead of waiting another 10 days for mouser to ship to me. Does it need to be 250ohm? how many watts? Can I sub something lower or higher?
 
Last edited:
Hmm. kinda helps. But I dont know what sort of resistors those are or the values and I cant find where they get attached and how. Read back and forward from that point and I am little, ok, A LOT, confused on how to proceed. I dont want to short anything out... again. Do I do this one board at a time? both boards at the same time? once they are attached then what? I need orders of operations otherwise I mess things up.

is this one right?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIEJHK4KR1%2bQTY3a8vjBnyto=

I would like to get something radioshack might stock in the store instead of waiting another 10 days for mouser to ship to me. Does it need to be 250ohm? how many watts? Can I sub something lower or higher?

RC,

Check out Post #91 on my thread. It indicates how/where to hook the resistors, what values they should be.

Pin 10 and Pin 13 that both lead to Pin 19 on the 032 board. Both sides should have them installed. Follow that thread closely. If you don't understand

ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING OR TURN THE UNIT ON. Mark may want to continue his guidance on this rather as he will surely have a plan for you to follow. I would wait until he posts.

JT
 
Ok I see that now. but I would like to know if I can sub different resistors or maybe combine several from Radio SHack off the shelf to bring it to a value that I wont have to order the same ones you have from mouser.
 
stand by, resistors from Radio Shack, calculating before rush hour...

Double checking: new transistors in power amp boards? 2sa725, 2sa726 and 2sc1451's removed, right?

----------------------------

OK, to not limit you in case of bad stocking levels

1/4 or 1/2 watt resistors carbon film from 470 ohms through 2.2k (2200 ohm) resistors

5 packs are $1.49
-----------------------


1k-ohm 1W 5% Metal-Oxide Film Resistor (2-Pack)

Model: 271-153 | Catalog #: 271-153
1k-ohm 1W 5% Metal-Oxide Film Resistor (2-Pack)

Price:
$1.49

would be the optimum choice, 30v will heat them but not blow them,
but 55v + 55v is available and the resistance to tame that (12k @ 1watt) would affect the feedback ratio

so get 2 sets of two of these if you do.

------------------------------------

the 1/4 or 1/2 w resistors will pop in a fault, but there are 5 in a pack and we will try not to do it twice.

so it's whatever you can find on the shelves at the Radio Shack.

BTW, you COULD try the 1/4w 10 ohm resistors you already have and as long as the voltage is 0.6v they will survive,
but in a fault (30v) they will be like a dandelion in a tornado - gone with the wind.


0.6v / 10 ohms = 60 Milliamps which is not an unreasonable base drive load.

(0.6v * 0.6v) / 10 ohms = 0.036 watt = ~ 1/25 of a watt
( 1.58v * 1.58v ) / 10 ohms = 1/4 watt rated power
(30v * 30v) /10 ohms = 90 watts = poof

OK this post is finished.
 
Last edited:
Ok, got a Post Office run, AFK until 5:15 or so, sorry - other stuff to get on it's way...
 
Ok so I have the resistors going 13 and 10 to 19.


Now what?

Sorry.... I am a little frustrated after reading that thread AGAIN and getting totally lost.

That other thread is not helpful to me it is only making my more confused. Too much happening. Am I supposed to be checking the pots? or all the other stuff? What is this about lifting a resistor? See what i mean, I dont want to follow another thread that have irrelevant information to what MTF wants me to actually do. I just know I will blow something up and then BACK to Radioshack and Mouser. :(

What I THINK you want me to check next is the voltage on the 10 and 13 pin? I put the black probe to chassis and red to each board. The left side board facing from the front I get totally different numbers than the right side board. The left side board numbers are also higher.

Should I be adjusting the VRs? Which direction? CW? CCW? (please note from which direction)

I am standing by with the resistors installed and the transistors OUT and connected to the DBT.
 
Last edited:
Ok so I have the resistors going 13 and 10 to 19.


What I THINK you want me to check next is the voltage on the 10 and 13 pin? I put the black probe to chassis and red to each board. The left side board facing from the front I get totally different numbers than the right side board. The left side board numbers are also higher.

Should I be adjusting the VRs? Which direction? CW? CCW? (please note from which direction)

I am standing by with the resistors installed and the transistors OUT and connected to the DBT.

graphic example:

imagine your thumb is pin 13, and your index finger is pin 10. The distances represent volts. The floor is -55 volts and the ceiling is +55 volts

the table top is pin 19, it should be halfway between floor and ceiling. 0.000v

hold your thumb (-0.4 ~ -0.6v) below the table and your index finger above the table (+0.4V ~ +0.6V)

Your other fingers are lightly resting on the top of the table.

VR1 raises and lowers the table, moving your hand with it. (0.000V)

VR2 increases and decreases the distance between your thumb and index finger. (The two plus and minus 0.4 ~ 0.6V )

IF VR2 is not zero ohms initially, you will hurt your hand as your thumb and finger are forced apart.

Your fingers should NOT be stretched to the floor or ceiling, but close to the table which is halfway between the floor and ceiling.

IF everything is working correctly.




STUDY the more technical stuff below carefully before acting, every line is important, do not gloss over something...
I hope I covered most possible questions in it.

First, before power is turned on, we set the positions of the VR pots on each board.

VR1 (new one 2k or 2000 ohms) is located at the side of the board and should be at the center of it's rotation (by counting turns on this multi-turn pot), it comes like this from the factory.

VR2 (new one 500 ohms) is located in the center of the board and should be set at one extreme of location (zero ohms) - and we do NOT depend upon the CW CCW direction instructions. They can get neophytes in trouble.

Instead VR2 should be set for zero ohms measured across itself, you will see that two of the three pins on it are on the same solder pad -
that counts as ONE connection.
The remaining third pin on another pad counts as the OTHER pot connection.

With power off, the dmm is set to ohms
(200 ohms range or smallest ohms range IF the DMM has different ohms ranges)
and the dmm leads are touched to the ONE pot connection(red dmm lead)
and the OTHER pot connection (black dmm lead)
at the same time,
then the pot adjustment is rotated to adjust the reading on the meter to as close to zero ohms as possible.
It doesn't matter if there is a red/black DMM lead reversal here, either way the reading is ohms.

This sets the circuit conditions for IDLE CURRENT to be minimum or zero when the output transistors are connected.
This minimum setting , results about 0.4 to 0.6 volts positive (to chassis ground) on pin 10
and -0.4 to -0.6 volts negative (to chassis ground) on pin 13 IF THINGS ARE BEHAVING THEMSELVES.
These voltages will eventually go to the output transistors and tell the output transistors what to do.
IF things are not behaving themselves, the voltages can be far far from the 0.6 volts or so. like 2 volts or 30 volts... (the 10 ohm resistors will pop)

So the process is to chassis ground the black dmm lead, turn on the power and read the voltages found on pins 10, 13 and the resistor's common pin 19 with the red dmm lead.

IF any voltage is GREATER than one volt either positive or negative, shut it down

IF the voltages are within 0.4v to 0.99 volt continue:

then while reading the voltage on pin 10, turn the VR1 pot on the side of the board and see if it causes any of the voltages to rise a few millivolts (example: ten millivolts = 0.010V). write down the new pin 10, 13 and 19 voltages. we WANT to see this voltage shift, they should ALL shift (maybe not pin 19) - sort of like the tide lifting all boats.

It MAY be possible to use VR1 to adjust the pin 19 voltage to 0.000v - we couldn't on the last one - it stayed stuck on 0.000v. I want to see if it will adjust on this one. don't turn the pot more than a few millivolts (say 10 , meaning 0.010v) difference on pin 10 or 13, gauging this by the amount of rotation of the pot's adjustment, to see if pin 19 does adjust.

If you can, do try to adjust to 0.000v on pin 19. That should make the pins 10(+0.4) and pin 13(-0.4) voltages mirror images of each other.

OK, now for VR2. It is commonly called idle current adjust. It can get confusing. Idle current is measured as a VOLTAGE. It is a voltage developed across two of the big white rectangular 0.5 ohm resistors (0.5?k) on the amplifier board BECAUSE of the idle current that is flowing through them.
WHY does the idle current flow?
Because the +0.6v on pin 10 and -0.6v on pin 13 tell the output transistors to turn on SLIGHTLY. ONLY slightly!!
The fly in the ointment is that every transistor is DIFFERENT just a little bit. One might work at 0.602v, another at 0.580v
This circuit starts at about +/- 0.400 volt or so, just to be safe.

Thus we have this VR2 adjustment, to find the "magic point" where the output transistors turn on and start conducting current.

When VR2 is increased from zero, the pin 10 voltage will get larger in the positive direction, and the pin 13 voltage will get larger in the negative direction.
LATER EVENTUALLY WHEN the output transistors (one NPN transistor that works on +0.6v and one PNP transistor that works on -0.6v) are in place, the idle current will suddenly turn on as the "magic point" is hit. This will cause a shift in the pin 19 0.000v you set, because there are TWO transistors (+0.602, -0.580 remember?) - so don't be concerned.

We want to trial adjust the VR2 up to see, let's say, +0.7v and -0.7v.

Do not go higher, the 10 ohm resistors will burn up.

THEN turn the VR2 back to the zero ohms position, and try the other amplifier card.

This is a very dense information dump, it will need to be studied. It is both the what to do and why it happens.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom