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power conditioner

I bought a the RGP 600s about Christmas.It made a big improvement in detail,soundstage,plus the picture of my 60" Hitachi' Ultra-vision RP TV.I was kind of skeptical at first but it did everything they claimed.There is no difference between the 400,600,1200,other than the number of outlets.This is the only brand I tried and don't see a need to try any other brand.If you shop around you can find new ones at discounts.I paid $800.00 for the 600s from a shop in Chicago.



Chris
 
chrisf said:
I bought a the RGP 600s about Christmas.It made a big improvement in detail,soundstage,plus the picture of my 60" Hitachi' Ultra-vision RP TV.I was kind of skeptical at first but it did everything they claimed.There is no difference between the 400,600,1200,other than the number of outlets.This is the only brand I tried and don't see a need to try any other brand.If you shop around you can find new ones at discounts.I paid $800.00 for the 600s from a shop in Chicago.



Chris

Chris, what is the list for the RGPs in the US (400,600,1200). I think the 400 sells for US$900 over here. :gigglemad
 
chrisf said:
There is no difference between the 400,600,1200,other than the number of outlets.Chris


Sorry to correct you, but the major difference between the 400, 600, & 1200 is the current storage capability. The 1200 is 3 times greater than the 400 & 2 times greater than the 600.

Hence the 1200 is 3 times the price of the 400. Six more outlets doesn't cost $1400. Retail for the 1200 is $2200, the 400 is $800. :thmbsp:
 
PHC1 said:
I use the RGPC 600s and Pole Pig ... the best result for me was the Iso-Gray configuration with amps plugged into 600s and my digital front end into Pole Pig, the 600s is also plugged into the Pole pig.

A question for PHC1 or probably anyone familiar with RGPC.

I just want to be sure I understand this configuration that PHC1 has described. As configured, only the Pole Pig is actually plugged into the wall.

Assuming that the wall outlet is a 20amp, dedicated circuit, that means that four components are drawing off this one wall outlet: MC501, MC501, MDA1000, MCD1000.

Do I have this correct?

Thanks!
Matt
 
What are the benefits of the greater current storage capability? Is it greater protection for the equipment or better sound or both? Are there other benefits depending on the equipment in your set up? Is there certain setups that would benefit more from one unit over the other? Based on the modest system that I have what would be best?
Thanks
Richard
 
Prodigal said:
Hi Howiebrou,

I'm from HK too, nice to know some Mc fans are from the same region.:wave:

Hello there, Howiebrou AND Prodigal. :wave: Welcome to the nicest audio-centered place on the Net (or anywhere else!). It's nice to see some more people from Hong Kong posting here! [I live in Central.] :D
 
A question for PHC1 or probably anyone familiar with RGPC.

I just want to be sure I understand this configuration that PHC1 has described. As configured, only the Pole Pig is actually plugged into the wall.

Assuming that the wall outlet is a 20amp, dedicated circuit, that means that four components are drawing off this one wall outlet: MC501, MC501, MDA1000, MCD1000.

Do I have this correct?
Correct. My system is not ultra-demanding, my playback levels are typically in the 5-50w range with occasional peaks somewhere over 100w range when I turn it up for background or casual listening from the other room. A dedicated 20amp outlet is good for approx. 2300watts. As you can see it is enough for my system or at least I thought it was enough until I started using the 600s.

You have probably noticed there is always line-sagging whenever a heavy duty appliance such as a heater or a hair blow-dryer is plugged in, at least in my house there is as can be seen by any lights on the same line going dim.

We know that the power usage/distribution during average music playback is roughly 85% below 3500Hz and 15% above 3500Hz, taking it further, 50% is below 300Hz and 50% above 300Hz as confirmed by Ron-C and other articles I have come across before. Some genres of music recordings still have great dynamic range and are therefore much more demanding and will produce peaks much greater than your typical modern dynamic-range compressed CD's.

I will use the awesome Telarc recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture as an example. There is tremendous dynamic range on that recording, the cannon blasts are incredible in force and impact and if you watch the meters at that moment you will see that they will simply rocket. The meters don't tell the whole story as they are "slowed down" by design so your eye can register their movement and the actual power output may be much greater for that split second. This is dynamics of a system. To reproduce dynamics properly you need huge power reserves. This is why many amplifiers will have tons of energy storage capacity in their power supplies in the form of capacitors.

Unlike a hair-dryer or a heater which has constant current draw, the dynamic peaks of music can and will sag the line so quick that the amplifier may not have all the instantaneous current it needs to reproduce those peaks with full fidelity.

I like to use an analogy of having 2 cars side by side on the highway traveling at 55mph, one has 250hp, the other 500hp. Both are capable of reaching 150mph, they start accelerating to reach 150mph but which one will get to 150mph quicker? This is where the RGPC comes in terms of giving the extra hp.

Getting back to our audio, when a dynamic peak comes along even though your dedicated circuit may be capable of supplying all the watts, it may sag the line a little, the results can be audible in the collapse of the soundstage, congestion and incoherence, bloatiness in bass, aggressive, shrill highs, etc...

This is the advantage of the RGPC and their "flywheel effect". The huge RGPC inductor operates as a reactive entity, it resists changes in current flow by storing energy within a magnetic field. When current passes through the inductor, a magnetic field accrues in the core, and around the coil. As soon as that dynamic peak starts to sag the line, when current ceases, the magnetic field collapses, restoring stored energy to the circuit. Just enough to get you through that dynamic peak. Remember that 500hp car and the rate of acceleration? At least that is the way I understand the principles behind it.

In summary, my system is not ultra demanding but I have noticed that the same recordings will yield a deeper bass that will actually just start to vibrate the floor which I never felt before the RGPC from my speakers, the soundstage remains intact whereas before, on some loud passages, the images at the outer ends of the soundstage would creep towards the center of the soundstage. I bought the RGPC for the power conditioning benefits but have noticed this interesting effect as well. In a system as complex and as demanding as Ivan's, the RGPC is a great benefit, no wonder he uses over 20 RGPC 1200's in his system.
 
PHC1,
Do you also use an RGPC with your 275? If so, have you noticed a sonic benefit? I was wondering if it might make a difference in my system (C220/MC275IV). I'm not sure this amp draws enough to benefit from what the RGPC has to offer. Thanks,
Bill
 
Hey Ivan,

Do you plug your power amps directly into the wall, as some have suggested, or do you plug them into the RGPC's? And what would you suggest as a "starter" RG unit for me? I have an MC352, MC206, MX135, MVP861 and a CRT HDTV.

Glen
 
Glen,

Do the 1200C it gives the most bang for the buck and you will grow into it. If anything else your really going to like the picture quality on your TV besides the fact that you will have all the extra reserve power for your amp(for ear bleeding days). Pick it up used on audigon unless your dealer can give you 30% off retail. Sorry Ivan for stealing your thunder.

John

MDA1000/MCD1000
3 501's
1 402
MX135,MVP861, MA 6900
B&W 802D's,HTM2D,SCM1,ASW800
Richard Gray 2 1200C, 1 600S
Synergistic Research APEX interconnects, Precision Reference speaker wire,
Dream State power cords
 
PHC1,
Do you also use an RGPC with your 275? If so, have you noticed a sonic benefit? I was wondering if it might make a difference in my system (C220/MC275IV). I'm not sure this amp draws enough to benefit from what the RGPC has to offer.
Bill C, I did try it and I think the front end would benefit more from power conditioning than the 275 from the flywheel effect of RGPC. Tube amps are different by design, being high voltage/low current and rely on the output transformer to step up the current to drive the load. That's not to say that tube amps don't benefit from clean, conditioned power in other respects.
 
PHC1,
Thanks. That makes sense. I'll have to check around and see if a local dealer carries them. Might be worth trying out to see if it makes a difference in my system.
-Bill
 
PHC1 said:
You have probably noticed there is always line-sagging whenever a heavy duty appliance such as a heater or a hair blow-dryer is plugged in, at least in my house there is as can be seen by any lights on the same line going dim.


The lights in my house get brighter when I turn on my System... :scratch2:
 
McGlentosh said:
Hey Ivan,

Do you plug your power amps directly into the wall, as some have suggested, or do you plug them into the RGPC's? And what would you suggest as a "starter" RG unit for me? I have an MC352, MC206, MX135, MVP861 and a CRT HDTV.

Glen


Actually both, each Amp is plugged into a RGPC 1200 for obvious protection & current benefits, then I have daisy chained an additional RGPC 1200 off the adjoining parallel circuit for additional noise reduction & current reserve benefits.
 
Actually both, each Amp is plugged into a RGPC 1200 for obvious protection & current

Ivan,
I apoligize for my lack of knowledge on this subject, and I appreciate you sharing your expertise. That being said, as I understand it you plug each amp into a rgpc1200, and then plug that rgpc1200 into another one, and that into another rgpc1200 and that one into the wall? Would there be any benefit to have more than a dedicated 20 amp circuit, say a 30 amp?
Thanks
Richard
 
I am bouncing back and forth between the RGPC website and the PS Audio website as I compare the 600s/Pole Pig combination against the Power Plant Premier.

They each have impressive claims and apparent success in their performance.

The RGPC components use MOV's for surge and spike protection. I was under the impression that MOV's deteriorate after being hit. And, in time, will be less effective. The RGPC design [as described on their website and further clarified perfectly by PHC1] offers superb AC power [in reserve] via their magnetic field approach.

The Power Plant Premier only claims to offer 85% efficiency totaling 1500 watts of power capability. I gather that's based on a 15amp circuit. I cannot determine from their website if it can be used with a 20amp circuit. If so, is that now 85% of approximately 2300 watts thus totaling 1955 watts of power capability? 1500 watts [maybe 1955 watts as well] would seem potentially problematic under certain system demands as described by PHC1. Yet, other aspects such as their protection scheme and their replaceable cartridge design are appealing 'on the surface' as you read their site.

Talk about being confused. They both seem impressive.

I'm not ready to audition either option, but I certainly like each for different reasons. Is this a win win? Push comes to shove, I would air on the findings of PHC1 and Ivan and go with the 600s/Pole Pig w/o question.

PHC1 and/or Ivan, can you please comment on the MOV approach. Am I wrong in these being a long term concern?

Many Thanks!
Matt
 
Q – HOW DO REGULAR SURGE PROTECTION DEVICES DIFFER FROM RGPC?

Answer
• Conventional line conditioners use various types of surge suppressors, most commonly relying on an MOV (Metal Oxide Varister), to protect electronic equipment from large energy surges or nearby lightning (EMP) strikes.
• Most MOVs are sacrificial, designed to self-destruct when the big hit comes along; unfortunately, in conventional PLCs, the smaller constant surges continually bombard the MOV with extraordinary stress resulting in fried bits that have to be replaced routinely.
• These small spikes pass through these MOVs and reach your sensitive electronics, and with repeated abuse by exposure to these smaller voltage spikes can eventually break down solid-state devices.

Q – HOW DOES THE RGPC DUAL SURGE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM WORK?

Answer
• The RGPC giant “choke” (weighs 20 lbs and has over 1000 feet of wire surrounding its core) is the first line of defense.
• It is designed to place a very low resistive load in parallel with the line as protection against all spikes that usually appear as DC-based, short-term pulses.
• With additional RGPC units star-clustered in parallel within a circuit, the resistive load becomes lower still and surge suppression becomes even more effective.

Q – HOW DOES THE GIANT RGPC “CHOKE” PROTECT ITS INTERNAL MOV?

Answer
• By analogy to football, an RGPC unit has a 500-pound tackle (huge inductor) protecting the quarterback (MOV). Without RGPC parallel surge suppression technology leading interference, the spike would have been passed along the line to do its dirty work.
• RGPC technology protects the on-board MOV as well as your sensitive electronics from destruction by absorbing spikes and noise before they get to any level high enough to cause the triggering of the MOV. Only in the RGPC does the MOV not self-destruct, rather, it throws the surge over to blow the internal in-line fast-blow fuse.
 
I am bouncing back and forth between the RGPC website and the PS Audio website as I compare the 600s/Pole Pig combination against the Power Plant Premier.
I was actually going to order a Premier Power Plant to compare against the RGPC but apparantly there are some small issues with the Premier so I am going to wait to see what happens.
 
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