You beat me to it, a lot of people that are asking these questions (including me) do not have the systems to support the power upgrades. IMHO
A $50 Amazon Basics UPS/Surge protector makes more sense.
Power Conditioners - do you use them and do you have a recommendation?
- Thread starter 70'sMusic
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You beat me to it, a lot of people that are asking these questions (including me) do not have the systems to support the power upgrades. IMHO
A $50 Amazon Basics UPS/Surge protector makes more sense.
This is why I stated that APC and Tripp-Lite IsoBar were my first go-to for Type 3 conditioning. They spend time and money on caps/transformer filtering and varistors to help fight off hash, even some up to -75dB. 1-1 transformer isolation or AC-DC-AC systems can and will be expensive.
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Exactly. Who said anything about "high end conditioners"? I don't recall anyone suggesting the purchase of a Nordost QX4 or Shunyata Triton.
If you are a sensitive listener, a $50 Trip-Lite unit can make a difference. For me, using one is a no brainer for any system.
I don't see where that would protect from the brown outs (per this discussion) that are the bane of the US power grid, oh wait no they aren't
. But anyway, I am with you on protection just spend the same money and get one with UPS also if worried about brown outs.
Edit: BTW just looked at a tracking site for the whole US power grid outages, zero brownouts reported yet today and the only outages seem to be storm and fire related. I am sure there a a few Jackasses on backhoe ones also.
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Type 1, Type 2, Type 3 or Type 4 SPD's doesn't include UPS, nor protection from "brownout.' If you are going to spend the money on UPS, ensure it provides AC-DC-AC, as this decouples the devices from the line by conversion. APC UPS's are an industry leader in this area. If you are going with 1-1 transformer isolation, this will increase the costs as well. 60 lbs of copper will cost you a bunch.I don't see where that would protect from the brown outs (per this discussion) that are the bane of the US power grid, oh wait no they aren't
I've yet to suffer from that fate. My chief concern is RF noise reduction otherwise amplified by the system.
I get it!! Just people answer questions with the "you've got to have it" answers when in the big scheme of things those are usually not true statements. IMO
Clearly, your experience is quite different from mine.
That happens. I am pretty sure my PAS2 and maggie amp could care less as long as the line voltage is close. I could be wrong but hey that is ok.
I LIKE MUSIC
Super Member
It all depends on local conditions and the gear that is being used.
Below is a short, but interesting video. It shows how to use a basic AM radio to look for electrical noise.
One can take the radio to the power cords of the various devices used in our audio systems. Turn and orient the radio until the internal ferrite bar antenna is parallel to the power cord. In some cases the results may be very interesting.
There can be switching transients cause by the turning on or off of certain electrical devices.
There can be what is commonly called DC on the AC mains supply. This can be the result of poorly designed switch mode power supplies among other things. The result is that the AC mains waveform zero crossing point is shifted. This shows up in some of our vintage gear with transformer input linear power supplies. One common symptom is an increased AC mains frequency hum from the power transformer its self.
While the term power conditioner is used generically to describe just about anything that purports to improve the quality of the AC mains power, they can vary from very simple LC (inductor and capacitor) devices to full blown AC power regeneration systems and not all of them are created equal. Some of the basic LC type noise filters are much better than others and the same is true for the range all the way up to and including the AC mains power regeneration devices.
Some manufactures provide accurate specifications and information and other not so much.
This is another instance of it depends. That is it depends on local conditions and the gear in use.
Just because a device works (improves sound quality) or does not work (does not improve sound quality) for a given location/situation, person, does not mean that another person will have the same result.
Below is a short, but interesting video. It shows how to use a basic AM radio to look for electrical noise.
One can take the radio to the power cords of the various devices used in our audio systems. Turn and orient the radio until the internal ferrite bar antenna is parallel to the power cord. In some cases the results may be very interesting.
There can be switching transients cause by the turning on or off of certain electrical devices.
There can be what is commonly called DC on the AC mains supply. This can be the result of poorly designed switch mode power supplies among other things. The result is that the AC mains waveform zero crossing point is shifted. This shows up in some of our vintage gear with transformer input linear power supplies. One common symptom is an increased AC mains frequency hum from the power transformer its self.
While the term power conditioner is used generically to describe just about anything that purports to improve the quality of the AC mains power, they can vary from very simple LC (inductor and capacitor) devices to full blown AC power regeneration systems and not all of them are created equal. Some of the basic LC type noise filters are much better than others and the same is true for the range all the way up to and including the AC mains power regeneration devices.
Some manufactures provide accurate specifications and information and other not so much.
This is another instance of it depends. That is it depends on local conditions and the gear in use.
Just because a device works (improves sound quality) or does not work (does not improve sound quality) for a given location/situation, person, does not mean that another person will have the same result.
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@I LIKE MUSIC , and thats why I chimed in with all the different homes I have lived in. I tested everyone of them because I am serious about my music. If any of those said "spend money on a conditioner" I would have in a second.
Also understand, that this issue wasn't as prevalent 2 decades or even a decade ago. However, you would be surprised if you were to actually take a close look these days to what both you and your equipment is being subjected to. It's an interesting and informative subject if you can get past preconceived bias one way or another.@I LIKE MUSIC , and thats why I chimed in with all the different homes I have lived in. I tested everyone of them because I am serious about my music. If any of those said "spend money on a conditioner" I would have in a second.
While it often does not seem like it, I am one of the most open minded people you could meet. I always see both sides of a discussion even if I disagree with the other side, you have to have empathy before you can have a meaningful discussion. I will admit it has been 3 yrs since I have checked my power coming in. Might need to hit the test equipment locker when I get back home and do some testing. Also if you use any of the internet based tools for tracking the power grid they are supposed to be fairly accurate and they don't really show many problems that aren't nature related but I have only gone back about 18 months. I also know it is very regional, I live in a swamp in NC now and when I lived on Whidbey Island 98-01 its was terrible compared to here, but still tested "fine".
Edit: BTW I am working in Japan and we are doing nights due to the heat. Since we are not working tonight I am trying to stay out of the bars while I make myself stay up until at least 5am. Thanks for the help!!
embrown057
Active Member
I agree with you, should be the last thing. What dose not seem to be included in this topic is the amount of harmonic distortion on the line. In general it can range from 2.2% to 6%.
This issue has many facets. But the primary facet is, as was stated earlier, and that is noise. And as I said earlier to another poster, that while the power company needs to deliver voltage and frequency that is stable, the issue of noise goes far beyond just the power company. We have introduced a plethora of EMI/RFI generating devices by reason of the technologies used in virtually all appliances now, that's not to mention the smart grid, or other services that are now riding on the lines like BPL. It's good to take, at least, a measured approach which is started at Type 3 SPD's. You can investigate your own location for external sources of EMI/RFI and try to mitigate those as well, but as least you'll know where the bodies are buried. You're not an island on the grid, every other house close to you is also connected to you, unless you're off the grid. If you want to spend more and go beyond that, like UPS or more, then happy shopping!While it often does not seem like it, I am one of the most open minded people you could meet. I always see both sides of a discussion even if I disagree with the other side, you have to have empathy before you can have a meaningful discussion. I will admit it has been 3 yrs since I have checked my power coming in. Might need to hit the test equipment locker when I get back home and do some testing. Also if you use any of the internet based tools for tracking the power grid they are supposed to be fairly accurate and they don't really show many problems that aren't nature related but I have only gone back about 18 months. I also know it is very regional, I live in a swamp in NC now and when I lived on Whidbey Island 98-01 its was terrible compared to here, but still tested "fine".
Edit: BTW I am working in Japan and we are doing nights due to the heat. Since we are not working tonight I am trying to stay out of the bars while I make myself stay up until at least 5am. Thanks for the help!!
I LIKE MUSIC
Super Member
My slight?????? OCDness makes me tend to chime in because there is no one size fits all answer.
And remember just because the incoming AC mains service is relatively clean does not mean that the power inside the house is clean. Looking at what is happening on the national grid may not be an accurate indicator of what is happening on the local level, that is inside a persons house.
I mean no disrespect, but saying it should be the last thing may not be accurate in all cases.
The video that I posted is a good example of this.
And remember just because the incoming AC mains service is relatively clean does not mean that the power inside the house is clean. Looking at what is happening on the national grid may not be an accurate indicator of what is happening on the local level, that is inside a persons house.
I mean no disrespect, but saying it should be the last thing may not be accurate in all cases.
The video that I posted is a good example of this.