ashok
Active Member
Official US release of the TEAC 501 series including the UD-501 DSD DAC. US/Canada dealers should start seeing the DAC soon.
Pursuing great digital on the bleeding edge
- Thread starter Billfort
- Start date
Billfort
Addicted Member
As much as I want to get to DSD streaming, I figured it would be good to shoot for decent streaming of redbook wav/flac (and a little 24/96) while I wait out the quickly changing DSD DAC scene – the streaming PC/network infrastructure should accommodate a DAC change when it happens.
Since my AudioNote DAC does a nice job with redbook and can convert up to 24/96, I picked up a Musical Fidelity V-Link II USB>SPDIF converter to try some streaming. I went with the V-Link because it's supposed to be quite competent and is affordable – this is the type of component I see as soon becoming obsolete as USB direct connected DACs improve so I didn't want to buy an expenive paper-weight.
I have a quiet, SSD equipped Win7 laptop that connects wirelessly to my home network so trying some streaming was as simple as installing JRiver and plugging the V-Link in between the laptop and the AudioNote. Hook-up is nothing special – pulled the USB cable off a printer, XLO digital link cable from the V-Link to the AN, AN connected to my Joule Electra pre-amp with some FinalLabs copper/cotton interconnects.
Source material is mostly wav and flac redbook (some 24/96), streamed (wirelessly) off a network attached unRaid server. JRiver is set to output over WASAPI, all default settings straight-out with no processing or up-sampling.
The AN was a little cranky about initial syncing (it does that
) and I've had a few occasions where JRiver gets noisy starting an album and needs a re-start but I've gone from sort of neutral on the whole thing to pretty impressed. My system hasn't been on for a little while and I've been swapping components in/out but as things warmed up and I got my 2A3 amp back in (ahhhhh!) I've gotten to really liking this.
One album in particular really has me excited about what this is capable of – Cassandra Wilson's loverly. I've heard this CD before and didn't really get sucked into it but this seemed different – a really layered, deep soundstage with great instrument detail and a smokey presence to the voice that had me forgetting about all the digital stuff and just listening – exactly what I want to do.
I'm going to try some direct comparisons between the Sony SCD-777ES as the transport and this cobbled up laptop deal but this has been a very encouraging experiment – it doesn't seem I'm giving up anything moving away from physical media and it's hard to argue with the benefits – especially if it turns out to even sound better!
Since my AudioNote DAC does a nice job with redbook and can convert up to 24/96, I picked up a Musical Fidelity V-Link II USB>SPDIF converter to try some streaming. I went with the V-Link because it's supposed to be quite competent and is affordable – this is the type of component I see as soon becoming obsolete as USB direct connected DACs improve so I didn't want to buy an expenive paper-weight.
I have a quiet, SSD equipped Win7 laptop that connects wirelessly to my home network so trying some streaming was as simple as installing JRiver and plugging the V-Link in between the laptop and the AudioNote. Hook-up is nothing special – pulled the USB cable off a printer, XLO digital link cable from the V-Link to the AN, AN connected to my Joule Electra pre-amp with some FinalLabs copper/cotton interconnects.
Source material is mostly wav and flac redbook (some 24/96), streamed (wirelessly) off a network attached unRaid server. JRiver is set to output over WASAPI, all default settings straight-out with no processing or up-sampling.
The AN was a little cranky about initial syncing (it does that
) and I've had a few occasions where JRiver gets noisy starting an album and needs a re-start but I've gone from sort of neutral on the whole thing to pretty impressed. My system hasn't been on for a little while and I've been swapping components in/out but as things warmed up and I got my 2A3 amp back in (ahhhhh!) I've gotten to really liking this.One album in particular really has me excited about what this is capable of – Cassandra Wilson's loverly. I've heard this CD before and didn't really get sucked into it but this seemed different – a really layered, deep soundstage with great instrument detail and a smokey presence to the voice that had me forgetting about all the digital stuff and just listening – exactly what I want to do.
I'm going to try some direct comparisons between the Sony SCD-777ES as the transport and this cobbled up laptop deal but this has been a very encouraging experiment – it doesn't seem I'm giving up anything moving away from physical media and it's hard to argue with the benefits – especially if it turns out to even sound better!
Sounds like you're discovering the same thing I did - playback of a ripped CD from a server can sound very, very good. I've had the same experience you did with Loverly with quite a few albums. I've found that almost every CD sounds significantly better from the server than from my Bel Canto CD-2 transport - looking forward to your comparisons with your Sony.
Billfort
Addicted Member
Some more listening; Ray Montford – shed your skin, John Abercrombie Quartet – wait till you see her and the previously mentioned Cassandra Wilson - Loverly. Mostly straight-up acoustic instruments, nicely recorded, great vocals on Loverly and I've heard some of this material performed live (Montford and the Abercrombie) which I find handy for this kind of thing.
Compared the same tracks back-to-back on the Sony SCD-777ES (on roller-block iso-bearings, Co-Incident CST PC, XLO digital link to AN DAC) to a older Lenovo Win7 laptop, JRiver, long generic USB cable to V-Link II, XLO into AN DAC – wav files played bit-perfect via WASAPI, no up-sampling.
They where close – real close - pretty damn hard to hear any difference. The 777 transport might have been a touch smoother and laid back at times but the streaming sometimes seemed to have better image focus and drive. Can't really say which I prefer but there is a chance more work on the streaming side (better computer, wired instead of wireless, fancy audio focused USB card, better USB>SPDIF converter, cables, etc.) could tip the balance. This was a surprise - it took me years to get redbook to this state and here a laptop is doing it first hack in.
One thing for sure though; it doesn't seem I'd be giving up much sonically – if anything – to move toward streaming instead of playing CDs. Add the convenience of software streaming from my network server and the possibility of high-res downloads (and DSD!) and this is looking like a very good move.
Now to spin some LPs.
Compared the same tracks back-to-back on the Sony SCD-777ES (on roller-block iso-bearings, Co-Incident CST PC, XLO digital link to AN DAC) to a older Lenovo Win7 laptop, JRiver, long generic USB cable to V-Link II, XLO into AN DAC – wav files played bit-perfect via WASAPI, no up-sampling.
They where close – real close - pretty damn hard to hear any difference. The 777 transport might have been a touch smoother and laid back at times but the streaming sometimes seemed to have better image focus and drive. Can't really say which I prefer but there is a chance more work on the streaming side (better computer, wired instead of wireless, fancy audio focused USB card, better USB>SPDIF converter, cables, etc.) could tip the balance. This was a surprise - it took me years to get redbook to this state and here a laptop is doing it first hack in.
One thing for sure though; it doesn't seem I'd be giving up much sonically – if anything – to move toward streaming instead of playing CDs. Add the convenience of software streaming from my network server and the possibility of high-res downloads (and DSD!) and this is looking like a very good move.
Now to spin some LPs.
Billfort
Addicted Member
Yes, normal redbook - I was trying to compare streaming to using the 777 as a transport as it took me a long time to get comfortable with redbook and I think the 777 played a big part in that.
I don't have much hi-res PCM stuff but would like to try some (up to 24/96 - all the AN can handle). Actually, from what I've been told or have been reading, 192 doesn't interest me too much but DSD does big-time. I really like the AN DAC and the only thing I can see myself replacing it with is something that does DSD. Last night I slid from good redbook to vinyl and into SACD and this really cemented my resolve to keep a DSD focus.
I don't have much hi-res PCM stuff but would like to try some (up to 24/96 - all the AN can handle). Actually, from what I've been told or have been reading, 192 doesn't interest me too much but DSD does big-time. I really like the AN DAC and the only thing I can see myself replacing it with is something that does DSD. Last night I slid from good redbook to vinyl and into SACD and this really cemented my resolve to keep a DSD focus.
If you want, I can swing by with my DAC and some 24/192 files. I have some nice 24/96 stuff too!
it's showing up as $850 now.
Billfort
Addicted Member
This is getting interesting! Just plodded through the whole SACD ripping thing with my old PS3 and have my first SACD ISO and DSF extract on my server.
Was a little tricky to set this all up and fumbled a bit with all the steps but think I have it all down now and have to thank Ted_B who posts at Computer Audiophile and Audio Circle - his guide was very detailed and complete - I mean, if I can figure it out... A great world Ted has opened up for me here and I'm getting pretty excited about the prospect of streaming DSD.
Key pieces so far; an old PS3 (must be pre 3.55 firmware), all that Ted shares, a physical copy of an SACD (yes, I own it!) a couple USB jump-drives and JRiver. I made the ISO, converted to DSF, copied it to my server, then streamed it through JRiver which 'dumbed it down' ( ) to 24/96 PCM so I could stream it through my AudioNote DAC. It's late, I'll have to try some of these when I can do some real listening but hell, it works and sounds damn good so far.
I realize this is WAY far from optimal and DSD streaming isn't going to match (exceed?) my SACDs played on the Sony SCD-777ES till I can stream them through something like the Mytec, Teac, Sonore, Chord, etc. but it's cool to make another big step towards where I want to go with this.
Was a little tricky to set this all up and fumbled a bit with all the steps but think I have it all down now and have to thank Ted_B who posts at Computer Audiophile and Audio Circle - his guide was very detailed and complete - I mean, if I can figure it out...
A great world Ted has opened up for me here and I'm getting pretty excited about the prospect of streaming DSD.Key pieces so far; an old PS3 (must be pre 3.55 firmware), all that Ted shares, a physical copy of an SACD (yes, I own it!) a couple USB jump-drives and JRiver. I made the ISO, converted to DSF, copied it to my server, then streamed it through JRiver which 'dumbed it down' (
) to 24/96 PCM so I could stream it through my AudioNote DAC. It's late, I'll have to try some of these when I can do some real listening but hell, it works and sounds damn good so far.I realize this is WAY far from optimal and DSD streaming isn't going to match (exceed?) my SACDs played on the Sony SCD-777ES till I can stream them through something like the Mytec, Teac, Sonore, Chord, etc. but it's cool to make another big step towards where I want to go with this.
This is getting interesting! Just plodded through the whole SACD ripping thing with my old PS3 and have my first SACD ISO and DSF extract on my server.
Was a little tricky to set this all up and fumbled a bit with all the steps but think I have it all down now and have to thank Ted_B who posts at Computer Audiophile and Audio Circle - his guide was very detailed and complete - I mean, if I can figure it out...
Key pieces so far; an old PS3 (must be pre 3.55 firmware), all that Ted shares, a physical copy of an SACD (yes, I own it!) a couple USB jump-drives and JRiver. I made the ISO, converted to DSF, copied it to my server, then streamed it through JRiver which 'dumbed it down' (
I realize this is WAY far from optimal and DSD streaming isn't going to match (exceed?) my SACDs played on the Sony SCD-777ES till I can stream them through something like the Mytec, Teac, Sonore, Chord, etc. but it's cool to make another big step towards where I want to go with this.
Good stuff, Bill. This is exactly the kind of thing I am trying to get straight in my head too.
marantzfan
...
I've been following along quietly as this is exactly where I want to end up too. For now I have a squeezebox touch/vortexbox server which I am satisfied with but I'd like to see where you end up with this before making any changes. So far, this is looking very encouraging. :yes:
Billfort
Addicted Member
Got a bunch more of my SACDs onto the server to stream but haven't had time for much comparison between real SACD and downsampled SACD>24/96 PCM. I'm not expecting too much from the DSD converted to PCM interim step but who knows, I've certainly been surprised by the sonics of this little experiment so far.
It does feel good to have my SACDs stored as ISO and DSFs ready to stream in real DSD when I get an appropriate DAC though. Some of the SACDs I have are long out of print (some Alison Krauss, Rolling Stones, Duke Ellington, etc.) and the replacement cost on these things surprised the hell out of me when I recently went looking - some have prices into the $400 - $500 range!
I think my next step (aside from listening ) is to start ordering the parts to finish off the dedicated streaming PC - still not sure on the power-supply but pretty much have the rest decided on.
Missed your post above about having a listen to your new DAC and hi-res files Erik - that would be great at some point.
It does feel good to have my SACDs stored as ISO and DSFs ready to stream in real DSD when I get an appropriate DAC though. Some of the SACDs I have are long out of print (some Alison Krauss, Rolling Stones, Duke Ellington, etc.) and the replacement cost on these things surprised the hell out of me when I recently went looking - some have prices into the $400 - $500 range!
I think my next step (aside from listening
) is to start ordering the parts to finish off the dedicated streaming PC - still not sure on the power-supply but pretty much have the rest decided on.Missed your post above about having a listen to your new DAC and hi-res files Erik - that would be great at some point.
ashok
Active Member
Mike Lavorgna's review of the Teac UD-501 DSD DAC is now online. Sounds promising!
Billfort
Addicted Member
The Teac sure came out shining in that review. I know an AK member is currently test-driving one now and his thoughts on it where somewhat mixed initially - at least on redbook - hope he shares his experience with us soon.
My Sony 777 SACD player is starting to act up (DAMN!) which probably means it's on it's way to becoming a very heavy boat-anchor as parts for these are supposed to be unobtainable so I'm hunting for a good DSD capable DAC I can afford - the Teac is tempting.
My Sony 777 SACD player is starting to act up (DAMN!) which probably means it's on it's way to becoming a very heavy boat-anchor as parts for these are supposed to be unobtainable so I'm hunting for a good DSD capable DAC I can afford - the Teac is tempting.
ashok
Active Member
Would definitely be interested in his impressions. Also found this shootout between the Teac, Mytek, Benchmark and Playback Designs DSD-capable DACs. No attempt was made to match levels between them or optimize their playback in any sense. It looks like the Teac did not acquit itself very well with 16/44.1 material.
Billfort
Addicted Member
Yes, saw that, and one of the reasons I am treading very lightly on this whole thing. As much as I want to stream DSD, I already have a very satisfying DAC in the AudioNote for up-to 24/96 PCM and certainly don't want to take a step back.
At this point I'm leaning towards the Chord which I hear does very well with PCM in addition to DSD and a local dealer carries it - shouldn't be any nasty surprises if I get to try-before-buy.
At this point I'm leaning towards the Chord which I hear does very well with PCM in addition to DSD and a local dealer carries it - shouldn't be any nasty surprises if I get to try-before-buy.
flyz51
dipolar since 1990
also lurking here...
...and following with great interest. I'm just in the beginning stages of ripping my CD collection and setting up a server system for the household. While my equipment budget is currently pretty limited, I see how things are beginning to shake out in this rapidly developing corner of the digital world and have begun looking at my possible paths to a long term solution. Discussions like this one are an immense help, so many thanks for starting and following through with this thread. Now back to ripping discs, and where did I leave that bowl of popcorn?
...and following with great interest. I'm just in the beginning stages of ripping my CD collection and setting up a server system for the household. While my equipment budget is currently pretty limited, I see how things are beginning to shake out in this rapidly developing corner of the digital world and have begun looking at my possible paths to a long term solution. Discussions like this one are an immense help, so many thanks for starting and following through with this thread. Now back to ripping discs, and where did I leave that bowl of popcorn?
Billfort
Addicted Member
Concero HD
And after endless analysis, obsession and over-thinking this, a Resonessence Concero HD - DSD128 capable DAC.
Looks kind of overwhelmed next to the AudioNote but that's a good spot for it as it is serving USB>SPDIF converter duty too so needs to be close.
Installation was painless; loaded the USB driver on my Win7 laptop, updated the Concero to the latest firmware, changed some settings in JRiver and I'm now streaming bit perfect to the AudioNote for my redbook reference and to the Concero for a taste of 'modern' digital. Surprised really - this old laptop is streaming from my home NAS wirelessly and can even up-sample all material to DSD128 without a hick-up on the fly.
WAY too early to say what I think but I'm plowing through my DSD and redbook files and...oh my...
And after endless analysis, obsession and over-thinking this, a Resonessence Concero HD - DSD128 capable DAC.
Looks kind of overwhelmed next to the AudioNote but that's a good spot for it as it is serving USB>SPDIF converter duty too so needs to be close.
Installation was painless; loaded the USB driver on my Win7 laptop, updated the Concero to the latest firmware, changed some settings in JRiver and I'm now streaming bit perfect to the AudioNote for my redbook reference and to the Concero for a taste of 'modern' digital. Surprised really - this old laptop is streaming from my home NAS wirelessly and can even up-sample all material to DSD128 without a hick-up on the fly.
WAY too early to say what I think but I'm plowing through my DSD and redbook files and...oh my...
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