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Pursuing great digital on the bleeding edge

Alison Krauss + Union Station Live (DSD), Blue Rodeo Five Days in July (16/44.1) and Muddy Waters Folk Singer (DSD) all played at DSD128 has just bettered my vinyl (especially Folk Singer!) – air, dynamics, syrupy smooth huge sound space – I am really liking this.
 
I looked very hard at that Resonessence Concero HD-Beautiful setup! Digital sound quality can be better than vinyl with the right gear and resources.
 
I don't know, there are so many variables with this stuff I don't draw conclusions on which is best - I just want to make sure I have both decently covered.

I will say though that you really have to devote the same attention - and resources ($$) - to both to get them on the same level. I've always been a vinyl guy and always will be but I'm finding that digital can be right in there with it and maybe even surpass it at times - happened a little last night with the Concero.

It sure is nice to have all this material available and to just choose what I want to listen to without thinking about 'format' - they all work.
 
I agree with you. I still like my vinyl, but I really have no idea what I would have to buy or how much I would have to spend to get there with my analog system. I guess I am just in a very happy place at the present time with my digital set up.
 
Billfort said:
I don't know, there are so many variables with this stuff I don't draw conclusions on which is best - I just want to make sure I have both decently covered.

I will say though that you really have to devote the same attention - and resources ($$) - to both to get them on the same level. I've always been a vinyl guy and always will be but I'm finding that digital can be right in there with it and maybe even surpass it at times - happened a little last night with the Concero.

It sure is nice to have all this material available and to just choose what I want to listen to without thinking about 'format' - they all work.
Click to expand...

So, are you listening now through the Concero HD instead of the Audio Note? I've been looking at that DAC for a while now.
 
I listened to the Concero for the most part yesterday – I just got it and what it can do playing double DSD/DSD128 had me mesmerized so I kind of stuck with that. I've sorely missed listening to my SACDs (DSD64) and they are sounding fantastic through the Concero.

Switching between the HD and the AN is not too bad – the SPDIF out of the Concero (feeding the AN) is always active but since the AN likes 16/44.1, you need to change a few settings in Jriver. I set up 2 'zones' in Jriver to do this – one feeds the Concero>AN with 16/44.1, the other feeds the Concero who's analog outs go to a second input on my pre-amp – I just toggle zones and select the other input.

The few comparisons I did between the 2 with 16/44.1 where a tough call. The Concero USB>SPDIF conversion might be better than what I was using, as the AN seems to have taken a step up – I had read that the Concero is very good at this task and that does seem to be the case. Redbook on the Concero seems damn good though and I was surprised how close they where at times. I still preferred the Concero>AN combination but after some burn-in, playing with the upsampling & filters, etc. it might be close enough to be down to personal taste.

What was a surprise though in comparing the 2 was how good the 'simple' approach to playing all these formats sounded. I set Jriver on the Concero zone to just output everything as DSD128 – which the Concero seems VERY good at playing. In this mode I just selected anything in my library and enjoyed and if it was redbook and I wanted to hear the AN flavor, I could just toggle to the other zone. The 2 were real close with the Concero used this way and I have to admit I just stop bothering with the AN after a while. I think the AN might have a more immediate, detailed view where the DSD'ed redbook was a little smoother, fleshed out and more 'analog' like. It really came down to source material as to which I preferred but I could probably live with the Concero in this mode for redbook.

Of coarse it was real easy to forget about the AN when I clicked on an SACD rip to play though. :)
 
Very interesting. You have JRiver so well dialed in. I really need a good long set of IC's and a very good short USB cable to really get the best from it.
 
MWalt said:
Very interesting. You have JRiver so well dialed in. I really need a good long set of IC's and a very good short USB cable to really get the best from it.
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I suggest keep DAC close to preamp. Long analog cables are not good. If your computer is more than 10 feet from preamp (reasonable length of USB cable), move is closer.
 
Yes, short interconnects are best, short USB cables are best, but I don't really want a conventional computer in the listening room – which is now the crux of my problem as streaming sounds so damn good. I really don't want to continue using the laptop as I think an audio focused box that only does streaming will be another step forward.

I'm considering 3 possible routes to solving this;

  1. something like the Adnaco s3b fiber-optic USB extension system that would leave that big noisy computer in another room. Downsides are it's pricey, probably needs it's own dedicated 5v linear power supply for best results, requires remote control and from what I've read, isn't as good as an audio focused USB card in a PC like the Paul Pang.

  2. which brings me to option 2 – a dedicated streaming pc with one of those PP USB cards, a stripped down OS optimized for only audio (but still Windows/Jriver), trick power supplies (linears, maybe batteries) and an attempt at fanless – it's got to be dead quiet. This one could get expensive too and would still require remote control if keeping all those wires short but right now, this route seems the most realistic to me.

  3. and the 3rd possibility – a big noisy, remote controlled player pc in another room like option 1 but with a lean-and-mean NAA (network audio adapter) or renderer near the DAC running some form of Linux on a Beaglebone, Cubox or something. Probably still requires a good linear PS and remote control but might end up the cheapest route since I already have that big noisy thing in the other room. The downsides are huge for me and probably rule it out – this is serious bleeding edge computer geeky stuff for non-Linux guys (me) and it's ability to interface with things like Jriver, which can do on-the-fly format conversion and stream double DSD (which I must have) seems debatable or not on.
I'm done with DACs for a while so now on to the computer – with short interconnects and USB cables.
 
Billfort said:
Yes, short interconnects are best, short USB cables are best, but I don't really want a conventional computer in the listening room – which is now the crux of my problem as streaming sounds so damn good. I really don't want to continue using the laptop as I think an audio focused box that only does streaming will be another step forward.

I'm considering 3 possible routes to solving this;

  1. something like the Adnaco s3b fiber-optic USB extension system that would leave that big noisy computer in another room. Downsides are it's pricey, probably needs it's own dedicated 5v linear power supply for best results, requires remote control and from what I've read, isn't as good as an audio focused USB card in a PC like the Paul Pang.

  2. which brings me to option 2 – a dedicated streaming pc with one of those PP USB cards, a stripped down OS optimized for only audio (but still Windows/Jriver), trick power supplies (linears, maybe batteries) and an attempt at fanless – it's got to be dead quiet. This one could get expensive too and would still require remote control if keeping all those wires short but right now, this route seems the most realistic to me.

  3. and the 3rd possibility – a big noisy, remote controlled player pc in another room like option 1 but with a lean-and-mean NAA (network audio adapter) or renderer near the DAC running some form of Linux on a Beaglebone, Cubox or something. Probably still requires a good linear PS and remote control but might end up the cheapest route since I already have that big noisy thing in the other room. The downsides are huge for me and probably rule it out – this is serious bleeding edge computer geeky stuff for non-Linux guys (me) and it's ability to interface with things like Jriver, which can do on-the-fly format conversion and stream double DSD (which I must have) seems debatable or not on.
I'm done with DACs for a while so now on to the computer – with short interconnects and USB cables.
Click to expand...

You have some good ideas here. I considered a NAS. I have even thought that I could use almost anything that has a Cat5 in and USB out. Like an external hard drive or something if I could find something that fits the bill. I hate long cables too.
 
If you must run Windows, theres always the option of using a Mac Mini, which is fanless, with Bootcamp running Windows natively.

I run a Mac Mini headless, although with Mac OS X, and it's an elegant solution aesthetically and functionally using an iPad as a remote control.
 
Billfort said:
  1. and the 3rd possibility – a big noisy, remote controlled player pc in another room like option 1 but with a lean-and-mean NAA (network audio adapter) or renderer near the DAC running some form of Linux on a Beaglebone, Cubox or something. Probably still requires a good linear PS and remote control but might end up the cheapest route since I already have that big noisy thing in the other room. The downsides are huge for me and probably rule it out – this is serious bleeding edge computer geeky stuff for non-Linux guys (me) and it's ability to interface with things like Jriver, which can do on-the-fly format conversion and stream double DSD (which I must have) seems debatable or not on.
Click to expand...

Not sure why I wanted the grief involved but I'm trying this option and it's pretty much everything I expected.

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An SOtM-sMS-100 mini server acting as a DLNA renderer, JRiver running on the big ugly/noisy box in the other room serving up files stored on an unRaid NAS - all on a 1G wired network. Linear, regulated power supply for the sMS-100 and via USB - the Concero - is a BK 1730A 30V/3A dialed in to 9vdc (about .5A draw). Trying a few things for remote control including a laptop and an android tablet but usually; a Blackberry Z10 running Eos does everything I need.

It was tricky to get going, touchy about the network, flaky at times and sometimes just locks up, but it's getting better. JRiver playing to a DLNA renderer seems to be the root of the problem and I haven't figured out how to upscale everything to DSD128 in this configuration yet (if it's even possible). I'm listening to everything in whatever format it came to me in - mostly wav or DSD64 but a little flac and hi-res up to 24/192. I switch in the AN dac from time to time for redbook as it really seems to shine in this set-up now.

This IS a kind of frustrating, overly complicated, offbeat approach to this just like most other aspects of my system but the results...digital has never sounded so good for me.

Not done yet.
 

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Following this with interest, Bill. I'm sure there will be turnkey systems for what you're chasing in the next few years. I think I'll wait, but very interested to hear more about your experiences.
 
Couldn't you run the Server and NAS through a separate Wifi Router and Ipad with Mpad app? That is what I am working on now... Waiting on a couple more pieces. No upsampling, but I can run any music file with the server I am using...

This is nice because the Wifi router does not have to be connected to the homerun Ethernet. Works as a separate music network with the server and Ipad.
 
The NAS, server (Jriver on a PC) and DLNA render are all on the same wired network - wireless is only used for my control devices (I'm not an apple guy). I could simplify by running a music server app right on the linux based NAS but that's even deeper geek than all this stuff - I may go there to get stability but it would have to be a solid DSD solution for me to consider.

This really is out on the edge at this point and it's sure not as solid as a simple PC feeding that Concero but man, does it sound good. It might wear too thin on my patience eventually but this evening, the pain is worth it. :)
 
LMS software on PC and Squeezelight on renderer works stable to me for everything up to DSD128 via Wi-Fi. You may try this combination if Jriver does not work as expected.
 
Billfort said:
This IS a kind of frustrating, overly complicated, offbeat approach to this just like most other aspects of my system but the results...digital has never sounded so good for me.
Click to expand...
I very much enjoy my "noisy server" located downstairs in the office while the main music system lives upstairs connected via CAT6 using a Squeezebox Touch player with a linear power supply. The garage system also uses a linear sourced Touch conected via an "N" WiFi bridge.

I am now experimenting with a battery powered supply to try out. It is actually a standard 10000 mAh portable phone charger so the price is quite modest. I just had to put together a USB to 3.5mm connector.
 
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