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Rare Holy Grail Frazier Model Elevens

Crossover re-drawn

After studying the crossover drawing that the assembler used when building the Model Eleven speaker, I desided to draw it to be a little more organized. I think it will be a little easier to understand it this way. I'm still confused on how it all works since I'm not an electronics wiz, but the more times I draw it out the more I learn. It looks to be pretty simple until you get into the controls and resistors, my understanding gets lost in the maze of connections.
 

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jmrussell89 said:
I recently moved back to Alabama and in our shop, we found that we have two of them. Number 14, and 15. However, the previous owner painted them black, and looks like the 15" on 14 (I think) is fixed with a sealant. :thumbsdn: Everything else about them is amazing though, the covers are still in perfect condition, and they work like a charm.

Still cool to know there's a rare piece just sitting there. :thmbsp::smoke:

I'll post pics of them later.
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Very nice, can't wait to get more details and pictures.

I imagine if these big brutes get moved around much they get pretty beat up over the years, it's a shame they decided to paint them. There is a good chance that stripper will work to get back to the veneer, then they can be sanded, and touched up. They have a lot of veneer on them that's for sure.
 
RS Steve said:
Very nice, can't wait to get more details and pictures.

I imagine if these big brutes get moved around much they get pretty beat up over the years, it's a shame they decided to paint them. There is a good chance that stripper will work to get back to the veneer, then they can be sanded, and touched up. They have a lot of veneer on them that's for sure.
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That's what we were thinking about as far as the paint goes. Believe it or not, they are not damaged what so ever, well, besides the sub like I mentioned.

I'll probably try to have pictures up Sunday or Monday!
 
jmrussell89 said:
That's what we were thinking about as far as the paint goes. Believe it or not, they are not damaged what so ever, well, besides the sub like I mentioned.

I'll probably try to have pictures up Sunday or Monday!
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Believe it or not, the 12" woofer carries more of the low end, the 15" is used more as a midwoofer. You probably can get the 15" reconed at some point.
 
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Sam Cogley said:
But not terribly surprising. Altec, JBL, Tannoy, EV, and other made some great 15"s that were more of gigantic mids than true woofers.
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Without question! (see avatar). However, to use a 15 handling mostly midrange in the same cabinet as a 12 handling mostly bass has to be a design employed with very low frequency (pun intended)...

My own 15" (lower) midrange drivers:

20140330_181700_zps437fed31.jpg
 
The size of the Frazier cabinet, along with the slotted ports on the back are supposed to get the speaker down to a very low frequency (16hz). If you study the crossover, the 15" driver is run pretty much wide open, I think it is rated at around 60 to 6000, the 12" is crossed at 400hz. I'm not sure what the specs are on how low the 12" goes though. When you put your ear up to the 12" all you hear is deep bass, and the 15" you hear a lot of midrange mixed with bass, it blends very well with the upper mids and tweeters.

It is most always thought that the biggest driver carries the lowest bass signal, it's not always the case, and not in this design. I know Jack Frazier thought that any woofer much bigger than an 8 incher, had a much slower movement. I think this design allowed deep bass, but kept it punchy also.

I can honestly say that these speakers are the most revealing that I have listened to, they really bring out the bad in digital tracks. I'm not exactly in the know about the technical part of it, but I understand everything is compressed. The highs and mids are just too harsh and shrilly, you can adjust it down some, but compared to vinyl it's not good. Some CD's are very good sounding compared to others, but the ipod is just horrible.

What's interesting about the Model Eleven's is how little you have to turn them up to fill the house with sound. When listening to them at what seems a low level, you can go into almost any other room and hear the sound clearly. It makes it impossible to hear my wife talking to me from the next room, I guess that can be considered a good thing. :D

These are not good speakers for cranking a bunch of watts through (in my opinion), you really don't need much more than 40 watts to make them super loud. Once they get louder than that, they seem to lose their quality imaging and remind me of being in the first row of a super loud concert where quality loses out to db's.

I now have my connectors that will allow me to switch between amps without moving the speakers for hooking the wires up. So over this weekend I will get them on the ground, and off the dollies, I'm interested to see how different they sound.
 
Ok, now they look much better sitting on the floor, I will spend the weekend listening to different types of music. I'll post my findings after I put them through the testing. So far I have to say the bass is better sounding, highs are more at listening level and balanced.
 

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Very nice results after getting them on the floor, it certainly helped the imaging and bass. What I find most interesting is when I have them hooked as my fronts on my Yamaha surround receiver. My dog has barked a few times thinking he hears strangers in the house when it's just on TV. These speakers seem to just keep surprising me, wish I could give everybody a listen to them. Any AK members that happen to visit South Florida and be interested in hearing them please let me know, you bring the drinks, and I'll fire up the grill. :beerchug:
 
quite impressive, look awesome...


those will be impossible to replace, everything else will look like a bookshelf speaker compared to those...
 
Bkphoto said:
quite impressive, look awesome...


those will be impossible to replace, everything else will look like a bookshelf speaker compared to those...
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Thank you!

One thing that makes them near impossible to replace is their size and weight, they didn't nickmame them the refrigerator's for nothing. At 238 lbs I can only move them with a hand truck.
 
"At 238 lbs I can only move them with a hand truck. "
I expect that that is the major reason there are so few around.
 
Lucky guy- especially that your wife lets you put those in the house. My wife complained about my Cornwalls so much that I had to put them out in my shop, and they are smaller.
 
revox-b77 said:
"At 238 lbs I can only move them with a hand truck. "
I expect that that is the major reason there are so few around.
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There were only around 200 ever made before Jack Frazier passed away, and the company was sold, probably had a lot to do with it too.

They were built to compete with Klipschhorn speakers, I understand that a pair of the Klipsch models were in the test building durring the design of the Model 11's. Paul Klipsch, and Jack Frazier had a good respect for one another, and cosistantly built models to compete with the others speaker line up.

But to have the space, and desire to buy a pair of monsters like this for your home, kind of takes the right person. By the list of stars that bought them, it shows they probably could afford them, and most likely had large homes to fit them in.

Just lifting the back access panel feels like your about to sheet a roof with 3/4 plywood, i should know since I built houses for over 30 years down here. :D But I'm very pleased to have them, it sure put my collection in another league, HEAVYWEIGHT!!!!! :yes: :thmbsp:
 
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Duke58 said:
Lucky guy- especially that your wife lets you put those in the house. My wife complained about my Cornwalls so much that I had to put them out in my shop, and they are smaller.
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There is no doubt I have a special wife, she enjoys music almost as much as I do, and she is surprisingly excited about how good they sound. She had them cranked pretty good when I came home from work yesterday, she likes music on when doing house cleaning. And how can you not like the history behind Frazier speakers, the story is half the fun. :thmbsp:
 
Found another little interesting history thread about Paul Klipsch and Jack Frazier, thought I would share since it shows how the two would use the others speakers in design and testing.



Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:42 AM




Quote


ahhh Dave..no one could put it better...Jack and Paul...two peas in a pod...friendly rivals, and fantastic sound from both of them. It's just too bad that both names are now owned by get-rich-quick..audio ( if I can call them that) people. But we all know in our hearts about those two FINE audio pioneers!!!


I've probably posted this before, but still a good story.

I was walking with PWK through the plant and in one work area noticed a small, fascinating horn loaded speaker the likes of which I'd never seen before. I asked him what it was and he replied "a Dixielander" without further comment. For decades I wondered if it were an abortive or early design or what it was and never saw another...until around 2003 when I started talking about Fraziers in the forum and others chimed in. That's when I learned they were Jack's, not Paul's. It was also during that visit I saw the Frazier logo for the first time, on Midgets. PWK had a Midget with a brass handle on it and would move it in an out of a corner in the listening room to demonstrate the corner bass reenforcement phenomenon. I commented on how good it sounded for such a tiny thing and asked where he got it. That's when he mentioned Jack Frazier and allowed that Jack was the only other designer he fully respected. Got my attention. As the cheapest thing in the Klipsch line at that time were Heresies and still out of my price range, I purchased my first Monte Carlos due to PWK's recommendation.

Dave
 
After a weekend of listening to just about every type of music I like on the Frazier Model Elevens, I really get how well they produce a flat, accurate response. Every instrument, and voice you here is just spot on, and unclolored. The only speaker I have owned that would come close to filling every room in the house with quality sound, was the JBL 4430. The bass digs very deep, but what's interesting is how the bass is not over powering, or colored.
There is more to these speakers than meets the eye, at first glance it looks like someone just put a bunch of drivers in a big cabinet at random. But from what I understand, the main reason Jack Frazier liked Piezo tweeters was so he could run a two way crossover which eliminates extra distortion that a three would have. It seems he did a bunch of testing to come to that conclusion, so in these Model Eleven's he designed two two way crossovers to get even lower distortion.
You would think that having the drivers so far apart would result in pour imaging and unbalanced sound stage, but I do not get that at all from these. I think it's because the 15" driver carries such a good amount of midrange, and midbass, it creates a very good balanced sound even at low levels.

The biggest issue that I have with them, is they absolutely give you what you put into them. Compressed digital tracks really hit your ears with razor blades, mastered digital tracks sound very good at moderate listening levels. I happen to have a ton of digital tracks. :sigh: Vinyl run through a tube amp, gives you such a warm tone that I don't think I have the words to fully explain. This 15" EV woofer gives guitar tones like I have not heard before, except maybe live in concert. My Klipsch Cornwalls are the closest sounding in that area.

I was afraid these big brutes would just overpower my living room, but what I have found is that they sound the best at moderate levels. The imaging somehow is at it's best at normal levels, the tweeters being adjustable, allows you to dial in just the right crispness. I am sure I have never owned a speaker that goes as low in the bass department, it is an effortless bass. Most speakers need to be cranked some to feel the bass to any large degree, the Eleven's just have it there in a very balanced way.

Listening to Pink Floyd DSOTM is an experience in itself, but as many times as I have heard the tracks before, they have never sounded quite as dynamic as when played through my Fisher TA-800, Technics SL-1200, and Model Eleven speakers. My pets have to be put outside when playing it, I never had that problem before. :D Crazy things going on around here. :yes:
 
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