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Receivers versus Separates

Cosmos

Cosmos

Speakerholic
Subscriber
I am really curious, but not judgemental and definately not trying to start an arguement, but I have to ask.. in a recent thread on SUPER RECEIVERS http://http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88507 many people discussed what they would pay for vintage Near TOTL receivers. In many cases, these prices are exceeding the cost of higher grade seperates.

In my last post in that thread, I asked why someone would pay more for a mass market receiver than they would for higher quality and performance separates (such as SAE, SUMO, GAS, Crown, Adcom etc).. I have a hard time understanding this.. is it just the "I had it once and want it back" syndrome or the "collectable" factor of better known equipment?
 
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I've got a Sony 6200F receiver. It has 2 meters and 17 controls.

My Sony separates have 4 meters and 27 controls between them.

Thats not counting all the goodies on the back.
 
I've never owned a receiver. Most of them have never had enough power and they certainly don't have the flexibility of separates. I use an ARC SP-9 with a bypass from a Lexicon MC8 driving 1 Adcom GFA-545, 2 Hafler DH-200's and 2 Dyna MK-3's. All this drives 2 pair of ESL's and 3 subwoofers.:smoke:
 
Why just one or the other, in addition to my receivers I have several SAE,
Adcom, NAD, Krell and Yamaha seperates. Yes, I think the seperates sound better, but I like them all.
 
One box?

I think part of it might be the `one box' solution, along with looks. One box is neat; no interconnects, plus a well designed receiver such as the Pioneer SX-1250/1280 or SX-1980 looks superb. I'm not taking anything away from the way seperates look; but as an example, although the SPEC-1/4 seperates have top quality build, they look as if they'd be more at home in a recording studio rather than a front room.

Sound Quality. From what I've read on this forum, it's clear that at the top end, seperates will perform `flat' at higher power outputs than receivers. But in a domestic rather than PA set-up, how important is this? The Pioneer SX-1980 is rated at 270 watts per channel continious, with the ability to peak well over this if required. Assuming you are comparing like with like; receiver and seperates both in good condition and given a good source, either TT or CD and driving a pair of decent speakers, then runing at half maximum volume, is there going to be any discernable difference in quality between the 1980 and a good seperates set-up? I'd love to hear the opinions of those lucky enough to have been able to compare both...................... Jim.
 
I have often asked the same question here. Right now on ebay you can get a much better deal on seps, than receivers. I have never owned a receiver either. I have had a couple integrated amps but went to seps along time ago. Mainly for the sound quality and power. I ran an audio store many years ago and we sold the 1980. and it was impressive. But the stats that I listen to in my home would eat it alive.
 
I've always had separates, too. But generally they haven't acquired the collectable, nostalgic glow of receivers, and I can see that there is something cool about the efforts back in the 70's to build the "ultimate" all-in-one component.
 
My girlfriend likes flipping one switch and having sound. When I was running my SA-9900/TX-9500 as my main system I would often find she left the amp on. I have now switched back to the SX-1250. Sound wise they both sound great.
 
I had both, an sx-1980 and spec I, spec 2, tx-9500. I was driving a pair of legacy audio signature 3's. You can go to legacy's web site for info on these speakers. The speaker have a nominal load of 4 ohms. they can also dip much lower. With the music cranked up, the sx-1980 would go into protection and shut down every so often. I am not sure why, the amp was not hot just slightly warm. I always used a couple of external fans to keep it cool. and this seemed to happen only with music with out a lot of dynamic range. With the spec set up I have never had a problem. I loved my sx-1980. but I think the totl receivers just pack to much into the box. something has got to be sacrificed to get it all into the receiver package. I am now a confirmed seperates person.
 
DS1784 said:
I had both, an sx-1980 and spec I, spec 2, tx-9500. I was driving a pair of legacy audio signature 3's. You can go to legacy's web site for info on these speakers. The speaker have a nominal load of 4 ohms. they can also dip much lower. With the music cranked up, the sx-1980 would go into protection and shut down every so often. I am not sure why, the amp was not hot just slightly warm. I always used a couple of external fans to keep it cool. and this seemed to happen only with music with out a lot of dynamic range. With the spec set up I have never had a problem. I loved my sx-1980. but I think the totl receivers just pack to much into the box. something has got to be sacrificed to get it all into the receiver package. I am now a confirmed seperates person.
Click to expand...


Sounds like your SX-1980 needs to visit EW.
 
KR7600 said:
Why just one or the other, in addition to my receivers I have several SAE,
Adcom, NAD, Krell and Yamaha seperates. Yes, I think the seperates sound better, but I like them all.
Click to expand...

I only have used NAD, Adcom and my favorite and still have them SAE seperates. A202,P202, and 1800 Parametric EQ, when I got the Marantz 2270 because of this site and my research I was hearing things I never heard before and really liked the sound coming out of the Martin Logans.
Then all these great folks here advised me to be carefull with the volume because the amp section dosen't like to dip under 4ohms. Point taken, I heard some distress from the 2270 on a couple of occasions. They also said why not use the SAE amp out of the pre outs. The ML's are a very difficult load and the SAE, God Bless Dan!, seem to love the abuse:thmbsp: So I guess I'm saying find a great old receiver with the pre-amp sound you crave and collect some amps that you can swap in an out and get a great tuner for free!! Just a thought, and most females love the look of a nice old Marantz or same vintage receivers and a pair of speakers in view, the power amp can be hidden somewhere properly vented of course:yes:

Have fun:thmbsp: Craig
 
All good but............

jimfet said:
But the stats that I listen to in my home would eat it alive.
Click to expand...


All good points, but jimfet's post kind of answered a question I wasn't asking. I understand that in terms of pure stable maximum power the seperates would indeed eat the receivers, but what I was asking was whether, within it's comfortable power range (which in the case of the 1980 has to be accepted as a pretty big range), there's any difference in what you hear (as distinct from what laboratory instruments tell you) between a TOTL receiver and a similarily power rated set of seperates. ................... Jim.
 
like many I have had both. I have not owned a 1980, but have owned some of the bigger Sansui and Technic receivers. Once I went into integrateds I like those better audio wise like the Technics V 909. The ability to add top tuners,EQ;s, expanders, etc made that choise for me as well. Then once I discovered and could affoard seperates the ability to aquire superior preamps became evident too. Finally if something breaks repairs tend to be cheaper and easier to get done. True you have a bigger more complex stack of stuff, but I like that anyway!
 
A well designed receiver will be competitive with seperates in performance. Some of the obscure models would be hard to duplicate the performance of if aiming for similar specs in seperates. Example I have 3 Fisher RS-1060s, I paid at most $125 for one (which appears to never have been used and sits in it's original box behind my couch as I can't bring myself to use it). You get a 125wpc amplifier, and a very well built one at that, as well as a tuner sporting a 5 gang FM front end (and 3 for AM should you so choose to listen to AM). To attempt to duplicate the performance would not be cheap if purchasing seperates.

I personally don't prefer one over the other, if it's a stereo it's for me, I've got many different models on both fronts, as long as it sounds good I'll use it. :)
 
ExJxC said:
Sounds like your SX-1980 needs to visit EW.
Click to expand...

Nope. I too have had the experience of owning an SX-1980 that was performing perfectly. I also have several SPEC 1/SPEC 2 combos. The SX-1980 could not even come close to keeping up with the SPEC 2 when running inefficient 4 ohm speakers like AR-9s. Just a fact of life.


Retro
 
Combwork said:



All good points, but jimfet's post kind of answered a question I wasn't asking. I understand that in terms of pure stable maximum power the seperates would indeed eat the receivers, but what I was asking was whether, within it's comfortable power range (which in the case of the 1980 has to be accepted as a pretty big range), there's any difference in what you hear (as distinct from what laboratory instruments tell you) between a TOTL receiver and a similarily power rated set of seperates. ................... Jim.
Click to expand...

Once again, being the one-time owner of a properly working SX-1980 and currently, several SPEC 1/SPEC 2 combos (is this a close enough comparison in wattage output?), the SX-1980 could not bring out the full dynamics (and clipped periodically as mentioned by someone else in this thread) of a pair of AR-9s I own, but the SPEC 2 had no problems making those speakers sing properly. It was a night and day difference between the two power sources, with the SPEC 2 winning out handily.

On a side note, I have no scientific lab data to back this up, but I know what I hear is real.


Retro
 
Cosmos,
I have a Sansui G-8000 Receiver in the basement system and separates upstairs. (Perreaux SX-1 preamp, Kenwood KT-1000 Tuner, Onkyo Grand Integra M-508 amp.) I think the Sansui sounds as good as the separates. If you're ever in Cleveland, give me a shout, you can come over and judge for yourself. Or ask Piece - it - Pete, or Speakerman57, they have heard both. I think you could not buy the system I have upstairs for the price of a G-8000 or G-9000. That, I think is why people like the high end receivers.
 
I like both

I like, and have both. Nice big receiver with all the pretty lights and knobs/buttons. And I like a big, honkin amp too.
 
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