Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

[kceateva]

The chemist has not given his opinion on Ilfotol yet.
Company description-
ILFORD ILFOTOL is a non-ionic wetting agent used as a final rinse before drying films. It can be used in all manual and machine processes to aid rapid even drying and so greatly reduce the risk of drying marks being formed. ILFOTOL can also be used as a final rinse before drying fibre based prints, again it promotes rapid, even drying. Additionally it can be used to clean glass and plastic lenses and filters and as an anti-static treatment.

Kceateva - I would suggest using 99% Alcohol instead of 91%.

Thanks I can only get the 91% I talked to the pharmacy to see if they had any higher % and they just looked at me as if i was crazy. Than I told them it was for records and he said no... I'm gonna just stop using the alcohol and just use the Ilfotol as I have such a big bottle of the stuff. To me Ilfotol seems to work well with distilled water to spread evenly on the record surface, but I am no chemist hence why I asked.

 

[kceateva]

Amazing thread btw love all the info.

 

[guest110]

Well, Coke is 2.5...

Yes, and it's phosphoric acid...very strong. Root Beer is more like 4.7 (http://www.sheltondentistry.com/patient-information/ph-values-common-drinks/) and it still degrades enamel.
The pH of wood glue gets lower as the product ages as it breaks down to acetic acid. There isn't much buffering capacity in the emulsion. Take a sniff of your wood glue bottle....if it smells like vinegar, it is acetate based.

 

[guest110]

Thanks I can only get the 91% I talked to the pharmacy to see if they had any higher % and they just looked at me as if i was crazy. Than I told them it was for records and he said no... I'm gonna just stop using the alcohol and just use the Ilfotol as I have such a big bottle of the stuff. To me Ilfotol seems to work well with distilled water to spread evenly on the record surface, but I am no chemist hence why I asked.

Ilfotol is a different surfactant. It is non-ionic (which is great), a C12-15 Alcohol ethoxylate. The properties of these compounds depends on the length and structure (branching) of the alkyl chain. With a less hydrophobic chain, it may be less effective at solubilizing "oils" present on your records. E.g., you may find fingerprints remain after cleaning with it. If this is the case, a drop of a more hydrophobic chained detergent in it and you have a nice mix. I don't know enough about the actual patented formula in terms of cleaning strength (as it was developed as a wetting agent), but if it works for you, it should be fine as it is similar to the detergents we have been discussing (though in a different structural family: similar head group, different tail group).
Also, 91% Ethanol will work fine in your dilutions.

 

[kceateva]

Ilfotol is a different surfactant. It is non-ionic (which is great), a C12-15 Alcohol ethoxylate. The properties of these compounds depends on the length and structure (branching) of the alkyl chain. With a less hydrophobic chain, it may be less effective at solubilizing "oils" present on your records. E.g., you may find fingerprints remain after cleaning with it. If this is the case, a drop of a more hydrophobic chained detergent in it and you have a nice mix. I don't know enough about the actual patented formula in terms of cleaning strength (as it was developed as a wetting agent), but if it works for you, it should be fine as it is similar to the detergents we have been discussing (though in a different structural family: similar head group, different tail group).
Also, 91% Ethanol will work fine in your dilutions.

thank you for all the info!!!

 

[ripblade]

It was so thin I couldn't get it to peel off the record in anything but a million pieces. It was a chore. Maybe many coats would have worked better.

I haven't tried the product so I may be out of line here, but anytime I do a peel I always ensure a generous buildup at the edges, being careful to avoid feathering and crossing the lead-in/lead-out grooves too many times. Since the edges dry faster than the middle, it usually doesn't retard the drying process very much, and certainly makes peeling a lot easier.

As with many things, it's not what you do but how you do it.

 

[GPJeff]

Thanks I can only get the 91% I talked to the pharmacy to see if they had any higher % and they just looked at me as if i was crazy. Than I told them it was for records and he said no... I'm gonna just stop using the alcohol and just use the Ilfotol as I have such a big bottle of the stuff. To me Ilfotol seems to work well with distilled water to spread evenly on the record surface, but I am no chemist hence why I asked.

I don't know where you live - but if you're in the USA-
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0E9B6F4VCR4WPTKQE0NJ

BTW - I use Ilfotol, too.

 

[guest110]

I haven't tried the product so I may be out of line here, but anytime I do a peel I always ensure a generous buildup at the edges, being careful to avoid feathering and crossing the lead-in/lead-out grooves too many times. Since the edges dry faster than the middle, it usually doesn't retard the drying process very much, and certainly makes peeling a lot easier.
As with many things, it's not what you do but how you do it.

Agree, but it's also what you use. The product is WAY thinner than wood glue, which I have tested many times. Thickeners (like polyvinyl alcohol) are always added to PVA glues but there are few included in the preservation formulas as they are intended for paper and they want them to lie perfectly flat (no evidence of gluing). They also tend to be less flexible (more brittle) when dry due to the lack of plasticizers. I'm still looking; there's got to be something already out there!

 

[SSaxdude]

It seems as my current cleaning method has become less effective lately. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Maybe it's because I need to replace my paint pads and velvet on my crevice tool. Either way, I'm going to replace both of those and try vince1's suggested formula that involves Triton X-100.

How often should paint pads be replaced? What's the best way of cleaning them between uses?

 

[AvFan]

It seems as my current cleaning method has become less effective lately. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Maybe it's because I need to replace my paint pads and velvet on my crevice tool. Either way, I'm going to replace both of those and try vince1's suggested formula that involves Triton X-100.

How often should paint pads be replaced? What's the best way of cleaning them between uses?

I use this paint pad from Home Depot and I haven't noticed any change in over 100 records but I'm going to pick another one up the next time I'm there to see if my current one shows any wear. I clean the pad after each cleaning session with distilled water.

 

[Davron94]

I just mixed up my batch of Triton X-100 the other night. It takes some time to work it in as Vince has stated. I used a measuring a teaspoon measuring spoon full of the Triton, drizzling it in a little bit at a time into a teaspoon of water while stirring. Once the small portion of Triton was worked in (about five minutes of stirring), i'd drizzle in more and add another teaspoon of water, until i reached the 9 teaspoon amount. Once that was done I took the spray bottle that i was previously using for cleaning, added 2 cups distilled water to it, along with about 22oz. of IPA, and then approximately 8 drops of the Triton solution. I mixed it up good and then went to town cleaning by spraying down each side and using a terrycloth towel for working in, and removing the solution. Then spraying down with a heavy mist of distilled water afterwards, working that in and then drying. I have to say that it really does a nice job cleaning and keeping static away! I immediately noticed a difference with the cleanliness of the vinyl and a nice sheen. SQ seems to have improved on a couple of the albums I have played so far. Thanks Vince for the great information and all the advice!

 

[guest110]

I just mixed up my batch of Triton X-100 the other night. It takes some time to work it in as Vince has stated. I used a measuring a teaspoon measuring spoon full of the Triton, drizzling it in a little bit at a time into a teaspoon of water while stirring. Once the small portion of Triton was worked in (about five minutes of stirring), i'd drizzle in more and add another teaspoon of water, until i reached the 9 teaspoon amount. Once that was done I took the spray bottle that i was previously using for cleaning, added 2 cups distilled water to it, along with about 22oz. of IPA, and then approximately 8 drops of the Triton solution. I mixed it up good and then went to town cleaning by spraying down each side and using a terrycloth towel for working in, and removing the solution. Then spraying down with a heavy mist of distilled water afterwards, working that in and then drying. I have to say that it really does a nice job cleaning and keeping static away! I immediately noticed a difference with the cleanliness of the vinyl and a nice sheen. SQ seems to have improved on a couple of the albums I have played so far. Thanks Vince for the great information and all the advice!

Great! I'm glad it is working for you. As I mentioned to James, you can cut the time of diluting the Triton if you first put it in a small amount of 50% isopropanol then dilute it with water. I'm not sure what this does to the final micelle sizes, but it cleans the same and seems to cut the production time down significantly. Or just make it the night before as James recommends. Looking at your amounts, you are adding 22 oz of IPA to 16 oz water? Is this 99% IPA you are starting with? If yes, you are way too high on the final IPA (>50%) if I am understanding you correctly.

 

[Davron94]

Great! I'm glad it is working for you. As I mentioned to James, you can cut the time of diluting the Triton if you first put it in a small amount of 50% isopropanol then dilute it with water. I'm not sure what this does to the final micelle sizes, but it cleans the same and seems to cut the production time down significantly. Or just make it the night before as James recommends. Looking at your amounts, you are adding 22 oz of IPA to 16 oz water? Is this 99% IPA you are starting with? If yes, you are way too high on the final IPA (>50%) if I am understanding you correctly.

Sorry to confuse, as I was actually using mL's not oz's. I went with the 5% IPA to approximately 474 mL of distilled water which equals about 22-23mL. I had 92% IPA on hand so used up the rest of it.

 

[SSaxdude]

I use this paint pad from Home Depot and I haven't noticed any change in over 100 records but I'm going to pick another one up the next time I'm there to see if my current one shows any wear. I clean the pad after each cleaning session with distilled water.

I use one from Walmart that looks very similar. Do you use separate pads for washing then rinsing?

 

[AvFan]

Using separate paint pads for cleaning and rinsing would work. I vacuum off the cleaning solution after a light scrub with the paint pad then apply the distilled water rinse with a spray bottle versus using a separate paint pad. What little of the cleaning solution is left on the record gets blasted with distilled water then vacuumed a second time. A quick wipe with microfiber towel gets any stray drops and then into the vinyl coated dish rack to dry for about 15 or 20 minutes before being played or put into a new clean sleeve.

 

[ripblade]

It seems as my current cleaning method has become less effective lately. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Maybe it's because I need to replace my paint pads and velvet on my crevice tool. Either way, I'm going to replace both of those and try vince1's suggested formula that involves Triton X-100.

How often should paint pads be replaced? What's the best way of cleaning them between uses?

Yep, once the velvet is contaminated it begins to leave deposits behind. Replace it as soon as you suspect the cleaning is less effective.

The brush itself should last quite a long time. I rinse mine under tap, brushing it off along the pile with my fingers. I don't bother with distilled water as the brush is used to scrub a dirty record anyway.

 

[Trekmaster]

I have a vacuum wand so after cleaning I rinse the pad off and run the wand over it a couple of times to dry it out! But the ones I use are like 85 cents at the hardware store so replacement is not an issue either. As was stated in a previous post I like the ritual of playing and cleaning as I go it's all a part of enjoying the music!

 

[WntrMute2]

For another group, I was asked to put together a series of comments on record cleaning.
"Then how do I do it right?"
Simply use a non-charged (neutral) detergent. There are many to choose from but the most readily available are Triton X-100, Nonidet NP-40 and Tergitols. You buy them in 100% solution and must mix with water slowly to get them to dilute. Make a 10% stock in distilled water and store in a soap bottle. Use at a final concentration of 0.1 to 0.5%. Hence, a 100 ml bottle of 100% will last a long time.
Don’t just take my word for it: This is the only type of detergent recommended by the Library of Congress and preservation specialists for vinyl records, and now you know some of the reasons why.

Got my Triton X-100 and have made my stock solution. When you say use at a final concentration of 0.1 to 0.5% do you mean the final wash should be have 1 to 5 mls/liter of the stock solution or of the 100% original concentrate? That would mean 10 to 50 mls/liter.
Thanks

 

[kceateva]

Ilfotol is a different surfactant. It is non-ionic (which is great), a C12-15 Alcohol ethoxylate. The properties of these compounds depends on the length and structure (branching) of the alkyl chain. With a less hydrophobic chain, it may be less effective at solubilizing "oils" present on your records. E.g., you may find fingerprints remain after cleaning with it. If this is the case, a drop of a more hydrophobic chained detergent in it and you have a nice mix. I don't know enough about the actual patented formula in terms of cleaning strength (as it was developed as a wetting agent), but if it works for you, it should be fine as it is similar to the detergents we have been discussing (though in a different structural family: similar head group, different tail group).
Also, 91% Ethanol will work fine in your dilutions.

hydrophobic chained detergent is that were the Triton x-200 comes in?

 

[guest110]

Got my Triton X-100 and have made my stock solution. When you say use at a final concentration of 0.1 to 0.5% do you mean the final wash should be have 1 to 5 mls/liter of the stock solution or of the 100% original concentrate? That would mean 10 to 50 mls/liter.
Thanks

The stock you bought was 100%. The working solution I recommended was a 10% stock as it is easier to work with. If you use this 10% working solution, you add 1 part of this to 20 parts water/isopropanol mix to get a final concentration of 0.5%.

I wouldn't get too hung up on final concentrations as the detergent works and gets washed away in a wide range, from 0.1% to 1%. That's why some here just add a "few drops". As a guide, Dawn is about 30% detergent. If you use to use a drop of this to a liter of water, then use 3 drops of your 10% Triton mix to achieve the same results. Likewise, the isopropanol works well from 5% to 15%. It will work at higher concentrations, but, as mentioned, I worry about plasticizer leaching so why push it.