Detergent=surfactant. Whoa, Jetdri is mostly Citric Acid and has a pH of 1. You're killing me Kirk!
Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods
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I thought surfactants were used as a wetting agent. I understand surfactants may function as detergents, but are all detergents surfactants?
As far as the Jet-Dri question (assuming you're still alive) not sure what you are saying as far as Ph. Is it an effective wetting agent?
As far as the Jet-Dri question (assuming you're still alive) not sure what you are saying as far as Ph. Is it an effective wetting agent?
Tough Crowd on AK! As long as you take the time to clean LP's and keep the dust off them and whether it's with just a Anti Static brush or like in the old days at the radio station just wipe it down with water and dry it and play it. As long as it's clean and you are happy.
Bkphoto
Super Member
photographer for 25 years, photo-flo is the last thing id ever use unless you were drying with a hairdryer...if it air drys it will leave a residue...
hi*ball
Records & Coffee
It's being vacuumed off, and there is only about 10 drops in 16 ounces of fluid.
I have been using the paint "cut-in" pads on my DIY RCM for a long time now with excellent results. And the fact that it is wide enough to cover the whole record makes the scrubbing process much faster.
Please say there is a build thread somewhere for this.
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hi*ball
Records & Coffee
guitarman50
Super Member
I have been using the paint "cut-in" pads on my DIY RCM for a long time now with excellent results. And the fact that it is wide enough to cover the whole record makes the scrubbing process much faster.
I used bigger pads like that and found that it absorbed quite a bit of the cleaning solution wasting it. Using smaller brushes like the Osage brushes, they didn't absorb much leaving more of the solution on the LP
I think the problem wasn't the fat it was a wetting agent but the PH, its an acid which would etch the plastics. A stylus will pick up the smallest of defects and if the plastic gets etched it would make for a noise background at the least.
Anyone else have a problem with those paint pads after a bit start loosing their hair. Looks like some Johnny Winter with an afro shaved his pubics!
wrbear
A man of many talents...a master of none...
Great advise and discussion. What is your take on Lysol Antibacterial Kitchen cleaner as a small portion of a mix? I use the plain Lysol that has been recommend on some sites. It's great for GW records in that it is supposed to kill 99.9% of cooties. 
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You can't do much better physically than ultrasonic cleaning. You should still watch the detergent you use though, for the reasons already mentioned as well as their foaming properties. The devices are typically cost prohibitive however for an average user. I am not trying to cover devices (and open up another can of worms), just typical wash solution ingredients.
Great advise and discussion. What is your take on Lysol Antibacterial Kitchen cleaner as a small portion of a mix? I use the plain Lysol that has been recommend on some sites. It's great for GW records in that it is supposed to kill 99.9% of cooties.
Now we are at the opposite end of the pH scale: this product is quite basic with a pH of 11. This can be corrosive so I would not recommend it. The antimicrobial properties come from benzylalkonium chlorides. These are inherently anti-stats so it at least has this going for it! With simple pure ingredients available, I still don't get why people want to experiment with household cleaners that were designed for completely different applications, or at least certainly not for surfaces used for sound reproduction. I have other opinions on Scrubbing Bubbles and other products I may add, I just addressed the most common first.
cyclepath
Active Member
Vince, probably a dumb question but is there any way you could post some pics of the items you're talking about that would work the best for cleaning vinyl?
I seem to do better having something to look at rather than just read about. There may be one or two others out there that could benefit from pics as well. lol.
Yes, detergents disrupt the surface tension between interfaces as they have a polar part (hydrophilic) and a non-polar (hydrophobic) part (surfactant is just short for "surface active agent" ). This is why they help release oils and other debris from the record surface. In terms of surfactant, the Jet-dri product contains C12-15 alcohol ethoxylates that are non-ionic so that is a good thing. It's the Citric Acid that makes this product very undesirable. A pH of 1 makes the solution strongly acidic. See previous discussion on etching as to why this is bad.
Not sure if you want to see the actual chemicals or the products? If the former, examples of detergents are:
SDS (anionic detergent) :
note the non-polar (hydrophobic or "oily" carbon chain tail and the negatively charged sulfate group "head" (polar or hydrophilic...The Na+ is the balancing salt ion).
Triton X-100 (non-ionic detergent):
note it has the non-polar tail, but it's polar head is uncharged.
and finally Disteryldimethylammonium Chloride (a cationic detergent):
again, non polar tails, but a positively charged head (the ammonium group...Not shown is the balancing Cl- ion).This is a quaternary ammonium salt (four bonds on the N) or "Quat". These compounds have anti-static properties, mostly because they can hold water molecules at the surface and make it more conductive. If fact, this particular one is typically what you find in fabric softener and hair conditioner.
Different brand, same mix of surfactants with Citric Acid. Why use this?
cyclepath
Active Member
Thanks, now I'm more confused lol
I guess I should have been a little more clear.
Pictures of the products you're talking about.
Something to look at if I go shopping for the stuff.
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