• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Refurbishing Wharfedale W60D Mark IIs

Sam08861

Super Member
Just picked up a pair off of craigslist.

First pic shows the "before/after" of hitting them with restorafinish. One on left shows the wood after cleaning and right after applying restorafinish with 0000 steel wool. Went with their mahogany tint as I like a reddish tone even though these are walnut.

IMG_0289.JPG

After being cleaned up...

IMG_0291.JPG

Front view of speakers...

IMG_0296.JPG

Back place w/serial..

IMG_0295.JPG

Any suggestions on how to go about restoring these?

Plan is to

1. Take the backs off and test the resistance of the 3 speakers in each cabinet.
2. If that checks out replace electrolytic capacitors.

Any other suggestions or modifications to make while I'm in there?

Btw, will be driving these with the secondary speaker outputs from a voice of music 6v6 amp.

Thanks,

Sam
 
Register to hide this ad
Took the back off. Reminds me how much I hate flat head slotted screws. These will be replaced with something easier to work with.

Crossover.. Looks like the caps are from Hong Kong.. Is it possible these are not originals and have been changed? Values are 64uf @50V and 6uf @50V.

From the other threads I've read, these values seem off, but I'll have to go back and re-read.

IMG_0319.JPG

Cabinet... Mid-range has it's own chamber.. Very clean, like a time capsule. Didn't open that up since I don't know if it's sealed.

IMG_0323.JPG

Woofer.. Can see right through the cloth surrounds.

IMG_0324.JPG

Tweeter

IMG_0321.JPG

Another woofer..

IMG_0318.JPG
 
Speaker 2 had screws holding the back panel that must have been put in by Popeye..... nay.. Brutus... after having eaten Popeye's spinach.

Identical, as opposed to a mirror image. Guess they kept production costs down by making them identical. Serial numbers are 6 apart and appear to have been made by different technicians.

Only differences are that this one has a brassy color to the woofer back and is a bit cleaner.
IMG_0325.JPG
Second crossover in similar condition to 1st and again, cleaner.
IMG_0326.JPG

Some shots of writing on the woofers.

IMG_0327.JPG
IMG_0328.JPG
IMG_0329.JPG
 
Sam, what a coincidence!!!!
I just opened up a pair of W60D Mark II an hour ago and have the same observations and questions as you. Now that we both have identical speakers, we can confirm originality.
Your's and my caps are likely original because they match in description.
Here's a post that I just made over on the "W70 mod advice" thread:

I know that I'm reviving an old thread, but I'm guessing that the advice here still applies....
Several years ago I came across a pristine pair of completely original W60D Mark II's on CL listed for $60. The original owner had a neat story behind them, and they were his babies through college, as he raised his family, etc. He had a hard time parting with them - almost like they were a couple of old dogs that he had raised from puppies. I loved the look of these, the character and obvious build quality, so I pulled the trigger.
I brought the heavy buggers home, hooked them up and wasn't totally impressed by their sound. I'm a vintage JBL L series fan, so maybe comparing the Wharfedale sound to my JBL's may have been a bit unfair. I had to assume that they were somewhat 'stale' and needed to be revived.
Unfortunately, they languished in my basement for several years until I decided to thin the herd a bit, pulled them out to clean them up and put them on Craigslist.
I was surprised at the lack of interest in these speakers, given that I sold a pair of KLH Seventeens in a day and have some considerable interest in my Advent Larges. The more I look at these, the more I'm leaning toward pulling them from CL and keeping them (much to my wife's dismay).

But I have to imagine that there are some things that I can do to bring these neat speakers up to snuff.
It looks like a recap would be the first order of business. I know nothing about capacitors, but I can solder. Google tells me that I should hold out for oil caps like the GE Dielektrol, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here.
The original caps are non-polarized Minerva 64uF-50v. And there are what appear to be smaller caps as well: Minerva 6uF-50v.
Are these electrolytic caps?
Should I simply seek out equivalent replacements from Parts Express or the like, or should I attempt to improve them by hunting down some oil -filled caps?

My second question relates to the woofer. Cast aluminum frames make for some seriously nice sounding woofers - at least in the world of JBL. The Wharfedale woofers are by no means cheap, entry level drivers. They seem like they have a ton of potential, and probably sounded great in their day.
Regarding the surrounds: The cloth surrounds are so 'open' that you can see right through them. Without question, air passes right through these surrounds, so these woofers are far from sealed. I know that with any of my vintage L series JBL's if I were to remove the foam surround, the woofer response would be severely diminished.
Brian, you mention doping in #9 and refer to the KLH that 'required doping'. I know that KLH surrounds were treated with a butyl and KLH actually released a memo at one point that all speakers that came in for service should be re-doped. Were 'open' fabric surrounds part of the original design of these Wharfedales, or were they doped? If they were originally doped, or doping would improve sound quality, what substance should be used to dope these, and would they be doped from the inside, the outside, or both sides of the surrounds?
Thanks!
J.P.
 
Thanks for the info J.P.!

Another coincidence is that I had a pair of JBL L100S titanium speakers (prior owner got them at a PX in Germany. Same as L100T3s but vinyl instead of wood veneer), but got tired fo dragging these around during a move, having had them sitting for 10+ years needing to be re-coned. Several years ago, when I couldn't find the cones online, I gave my wife the go-ahead to have them taken to the curb. Now I find out these are highly sought after having the improved crossover and titanium tweeters... Still kicking myself for that!

I did see from a google search for 'minerva hong kong capacitor' that someone else asked the same question, so the capacitor values are correct, 6uf and 64uf.

Also, seems that folks have recommended Dayton capacitors and got good results. Ordering these now.

My multi-meter's broke for resistance so hoping the drivers are all good based on the visuals. Wondering if a continuity check with a 9v battery would be just as effective to determine if the voice coils have not breaks.

While waiting for the parts to arrive I'm working on bringing a reel to reel back to life, so that will keep me busy!
 
Sam, I'm curious as to your thoughts of the open cloth surrounds that both of our speakers possess.
and... not to rub salt in the JBL wound, but here's another coincidence: take a look at the thread in the speaker forum right next to yours. Sounds like today's version of your "curb story".
 
Lol, too funny! I'm hoping these 60ds will make up for the loss. If not in performance, they sure do in looks! Funny thing is I keep thinking the old jbls must be in my basement or garage and I keep looking once in a while hoping they turn up as I wasn't here when they were put to the curb!

I haven't yet played the speakers as I wanted to swap out the caps first. I'd read somewhere that although these are acoustic suspension speakers that the porous cloth surrounds served to allow some air in to act as a port of sorts. I suspect this will soften the bass a bit.

Someone had posted this link in one of the threads where this was discussed regarding the super 8s. Seems these were supposed to be coated per one person.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Wharfedale.htm

I'm waiting to give them a go, but think they must be somewhat effective as there's absolutely no dust inside the cabinets. Doesn't seem to be much literature on the later w60d mark ii.
 
Hi!

Sounds like you already have the caps on order, good deal. You can hook up both cabinets and run them, see if all the drivers are working. The tweeter and midrange may sound weak or off, but that could be due to the very old and creaky polypropylene capacitors. They were very inexpensive when new and probably didn't stay within spec for very many years, if they were within spec when new.

Leave the surrounds alone, that's how they were from the factory.

Carry on.

Biggles
 
Thanks Biggles! Noticed the voice of music item in your avatar. Is that a console? Just got one going (model 915, also in my avatar) over the last few weeks, which is got me interested in vintage audio.

Learning a lot!
 
Sam, +1 on your looks comment. These speakers are pieces of fine Retro furniture. They certainly have character. Could I bum off of your research and get the Dayton part numbers for the caps? I'll take your lead and replace the originals with the Daytons that you suggest.
Biggles, thanks for the info on the surrounds. Unlike the KLH Seventeens, I saw no written or physical evidence of the Wharf surrounds ever having been doped...and unless I heard otherwise, I wasn't going to monkey around with the factory specs.
 
jptl,

As far as the caps go, for those speakers it matter more that you're replacing them versus what brand or model number. Dayton, Erse or Solen, your ears won't hear the difference. Go with polypropylene or metalized film, just flip a coin. I'm a huge fan of what Madisound has to offer, their speed of delivery and selection of goodies. But that's just a preference, nothing more.

Sam,

It's a model 167! I have 2 of the little buggers. It's basically a 1959 ipod dock. A 2-way speaker setup with a 10 to 12 watt tube amp and a passive preamplifier. The work on mine can be found here: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/1959-voice-of-music-speaker-surprise.581844/

Biggles
 
Thanks Biggles. I'll have to post the after photos soon. Tomorrow's after work project will be to address the chip in the veneer on one of the speakers.
 
Something seems a little off here, lol. I know these are 400V instead of 50V, but the 64uf cap is bigger than a D-cell battery whereas the original is just a little more than half the size of an AA. (new cap looks smaller in the photo because of the angle)

Seems like a ridiculous size for a crossover cap. These should sound really, really good.. lol.

What do you folks think.. Should be OK? Will this extra large size present any problems? I plan to double stick foam tape or zip tie it to the board if that makes sense to do.

IMG_0390 (2).JPG

btw, Dr. Biggles, I ended up ordering solens from Madisound as I had trouble (my fault) with the order from PE, so thanks for that tip!
 
Sam, I came across a thread where the poster had found some NOS GE oil filled motor start caps. They were big as well. He glued then to the board. I'll try to find the thread and forward to you.
EDIT- here it is: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=602425&page=3
What was the problem you had with PE of you don't mind my asking?
I have the two caps that you recommended in my cart but haven't pulled the trigger.
 
Last edited:
Hahahahhaha, yeah! They huge, huh? As the voltage rating goes, so does the size. I wish I could get the same brand cap at 200v, sure would make it nicer for mounting in the cabinet. All good, time to get to gettin'!

I recently recapped a pair of Leak 2060's. Very similar to what you're working on, just more refined and newer. Notice the Wharfedale tweeter, and I had a 75uF cap in there to mess with. It was so large I had to run wires away from the crossover board and mount it on the back of the cabinet.

Leak001.jpg


Leak010.jpg


Leak011.jpg


Biggles
 
Thanks Biggles and JP. Starting the 'surgery' now.

JP, the prob on my end and not the fault of PE as I put in the wrong cc info and didn't go through.

Not their fault but since Madisound was 6 instead of 6.2uf, and 400v instead of 250v went with those.

Sam
 
Back
Top Bottom