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Regarding Carver Amps.

H

hobbesk

Member
Hello all.

Just a question.

I see Carver amps, TFM-35, 45, 55, which has insale wattage per channel and are very cheap. What's the down side of Carver amps far as sound quality goes.

I'm thinking of getting Some carver to drive the bass of a biampable speaker.

Infinity Kappa 9's to be exact.

I will be driving the mids/highs with an Adcom GFA 585.

Would this be a recommended solution?

Thanks all.
 
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The thing here is not "sound quality" It's how well any amp will handle bass duties on those Kappas.
I've never owned a pair, but I hear that they dip below 4 Ohms, maybe even down to into 2 Ohm region. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would not consider the TFM series, good as they are.

Instead, go for the Carver M-2.0. Better handling of lower impedances. 350wpc 4 Ohms.

Sound quality is just as good as any other decent, well designed amp.
 
The downside: they don't survive a direct lightning strike! :no: That's what happened to my beloved TFM-45 (375 wpc 8 ohms, 500 wpc 4 ohms). If it weren't for that misfortune I would still be enjoying mine today. I found it very capable to drive my Polk SDA's rated at 1000 wpc and it never even ran warm. :thmbsp:
 
"The downside: they don't survive a direct lightning strike!"

If you find an amp that will survive a direct strike, lemme know!
 
outshined said:
I would not consider the TFM series, good as they are.

Instead, go for the Carver M-2.0. Better handling of lower impedances. 350wpc 4 Ohms.

Sound quality is just as good as any other decent, well designed amp.
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Do you mean the M-1.0t? It's 200wpc @ 8-ohm and 350wpc @ 4-ohm. Great amps....:D
 
hobbesk said:
I see Carver amps, TFM-35, 45, 55, which has insale wattage per channel and are very cheap. What's the down side of Carver amps far as sound quality goes.

I'm thinking of getting Some carver to drive the bass of a biampable speaker.

Infinity Kappa 9's to be exact.

I will be driving the mids/highs with an Adcom GFA 585.

Would this be a recommended solution?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
The K9's have earned a reputation for being amp killiers because their impedance curve dips down below 2 ohms in several places. These speakers absolutely require a high-current, high-powered amp that is happy operating at that low impedance. These kinds of amps don't ususally come cheap, but there are some bargains to be had in vintage gear if your patient.

Carver made some great-sounding gear. I have no experience with the M-series amps. However, personally, I would steer clear of the Carver TFM models for this application; they use some sort of 'trick' power supply that allows the use of smaller transformers and less capacitance than comparable high-current designs from other manufacturers. IMO, they just don't have the umph to handle the K9's woofers. And while the Adcoms are happy driving loads down to <2 ohms, I've read that even the mighty GFA-565 monoblocks (300 wpc) will start to run out of gas on the K9 's when the volume is cranked up. Check out bigger amps from names like Forte, Threshold, Soundcraftsman, Bryston, or Nakamichi, which licensed the Stasis design from the Threshold amps of the same era. And if you've got the pocket change, you can go up-market from there with the likes of Pass Labs, Krell, Levinson, Boulder, etc.
 
hobbesk said:
Hello all.

Just a question.

I see Carver amps, TFM-35, 45, 55, which has insale wattage per channel and are very cheap. What's the down side of Carver amps far as sound quality goes.

I'm thinking of getting Some carver to drive the bass of a biampable speaker.

Infinity Kappa 9's to be exact.

I will be driving the mids/highs with an Adcom GFA 585.

Would this be a recommended solution?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
I dont think the carvers would have any problem driving your speakers. But it may be best to match your amps rather than use differents brands to bi amp. Each one is going to have different slew rates for example, gain may become an issue. And the adcom sound is different than the TFM series amps are. I personally would either look for 2 identical carvers or get another GFA-585. In the meantime try bi wiring your speakers and see how much of a difference it makes.

REGARDS
 
hobbesk said:
Hello all.

Just a question.

I see Carver amps, TFM-35, 45, 55, which has insale wattage per channel and are very cheap. What's the down side of Carver amps far as sound quality goes.

I'm thinking of getting Some carver to drive the bass of a biampable speaker.

Infinity Kappa 9's to be exact.

I will be driving the mids/highs with an Adcom GFA 585.

Would this be a recommended solution?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
I dont think the carvers would have any problem driving your speakers. But it may be best to match your amps rather than use differents brands to bi amp. Each one is going to have a different slew rate for example, gain may become an issue. And the adcom sound is different than the TFM series amps are. I personally would either look for 2 identical carvers or get another GFA-585. In the meantime try bi wiring your speakers and see how much of a difference it makes.

I personally dont see a downside to the carver sound itself other than its going to be warmer more tube like. I have discovered on my system the carver amps seemed to have a broader deeper soundstage than the adcoms.

Also the Adcoms tended to be a little on the bright side which is great if your speakers are on the dark side but they may not mate well with the carver amps. Both seem to have plenty of power to get the job done.

REGARDS
 
Some people really liked the Carver Magnetic Field amps and some didn't.

My brother has had one for about 20 years and he loves it.

"Trick" power supply? That was the whole idea. :)

I would be pretty confident that these amps deliver their rated power and the bigger ones should be able to handle those Infinitys.

Bobby Carver is a very clever engineer, and he's designed some very capable products.
 
Carver M-1.5T amp & C-1 preamp~

Brute power supply and good looks,but more than likely you wont find this one on the cheap.
350 watts per channel into 8 ohms rms.
The preamp has two sets of pre/outs so you can hook up a seperate amp for a sub or for biamping.

What kind of a preamp would You be using??
 
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I've read Apogee uses Bi-Amped ZR1600's to test there speakers. I also heard a TFM55. Carver was one of the first to try the digital domain in Amps.
I have never seen the inside of one, Other than noticing they have huge transformers. The guy makes sick power, In a small package. 4ohm loads are nothing for these Amps. All the work done in the PRO side of his company, Paid off in the Home audio side.
 
stuartk said:
Some people really liked the Carver Magnetic Field amps and some didn't.

My brother has had one for about 20 years and he loves it.

"Trick" power supply? That was the whole idea. :)

I would be pretty confident that these amps deliver their rated power and the bigger ones should be able to handle those Infinitys.

Bobby Carver is a very clever engineer, and he's designed some very capable products.
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Don't get me wrong. I owned and enjoyed a TFM-25 (225 wpc) years ago. However, a 'trick' power supply is no substitute for a big toroidal transformer and lots of capacitance when it comes to driving extremely demanding speakers. I found this out myself years ago when I tried a 200 wpc Adcom GFA-555 with my much smaller, less power-hungry RS-IIIb's. The difference was not small; the Adcom kicked the Carver's arse in the areas of bass control, authority, and extension because it was able to handle the power demands of the woofers better than the Carver.

The Kappa 9's are known amp-killers, and most of the TFM amps will not have the kahones to drive their woofers. If you don't believe me, read the reviews on Audioreview.com.

Hobbesk, I urge you to post this question over in the Infinity Speakers forum where other Infinity afficianados with more experience with the Kappa 9's can help you with your amp choice.
 
Tedrick said:
Don't get me wrong. I owned and enjoyed a TFM-25 (225 wpc) years ago. However, a 'trick' power supply is no substitute for a big toroidal transformer and lots of capacitance when it comes to driving extremely demanding speakers. I found this out myself years ago when I tried a 200 wpc Adcom GFA-555 with my much smaller, less power-hungry RS-IIIb's. The difference was not small; the Adcom kicked the Carver's arse in the areas of bass control, authority, and extension because it was able to handle the power demands of the woofers better than the Carver.

The Kappa 9's are known amp-killers, and most of the TFM amps will not have the kahones to drive their woofers. If you don't believe me, read the reviews on Audioreview.com.

Hobbesk, I urge you to post this question over in the Infinity Speakers forum where other Infinity afficianados with more experience with the Kappa 9's can help you with your amp choice.
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Agree with Tedrick 100%. Kiss the Carver goodbye on Kappa 9's. Myself, I wouldn't consider any amp that didn't double it's power rating from 8 to 4 ohms for any large Infinity speaker. LOL you'll find out. Good luck!

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:
 
Thanks all.

I've been a bit weary about the 'trick' power of Carvers, hence the question here.

Guess I'll look for a used GFA-585's to come up on e-bay or so.

Fat chance.
 
I had a pair of TFM 55 amps that i ran in mono & they were not great,infact i have them listed in the "worst sounding gear" thread on AK,never could get a meaningfull bass response out of them,i could suck the carvers power supply dry as a bone with a pair of Klipsch Cornwall's,from my experience with Carver amps they do not fair well pushing subwoofers or full range speakers with big 15" woofers.

I also had a 2 week demo in my home with a clean pair of Carver silver 7T tube transfer function monoblocks,i ran them on my Mcintosh line arrays & the results were terrible,i was suprised at how quickly the line arrays drank all the power from a pair of 575 watt monoblocks.

As for comparing Adcom with Carver ive owned both & still have a pair of GFA 565 (white face) monoblocks in the closet,the adcom mono's crushed the carver amps in every way at half the wattage & did a much better job driving the line array's.

Stick with Adcom its a much more powerfull product.
 
beemer said:
Agree with Tedrick 100%. Kiss the Carver goodbye on Kappa 9's. Myself, I wouldn't consider any amp that didn't double it's power rating from 8 to 4 ohms for any large Infinity speaker. LOL you'll find out. Good luck!
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There are very few Class AB amps that double power into 4 ohms from 8 ohms.

If my Carver TFM-35 could drive AR TSW-910s, it can drive Kappa 9s.
 
Damage said:
There are very few Class AB amps that double power into 4 ohms from 8 ohms.

If my Carver TFM-35 could drive AR TSW-910s, it can drive Kappa 9s.
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The TFM-35 will make the K9's play. That's about it. Turn it up for a while and you'll be lettin' the smoke out of it. Most here know what happens after the smoke is let out of most any electronic component. :D

I could tell ya the story of the AR9's and the multiple pairs of Carver M1.5t's, but I'll save it for another day.

Been there, done that, seen it happen more times than I care to remember.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:
 
I'm playing with a Carver 1.0t in the living room right now and it it very happily driving my Energy Ref Cons. These things are a real pain to drive and its really hard to find an amp that makes them happy. The Carver is doing shockingly well.
 
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