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Replacement Stylus for Stanton 881S Cartridge

triode said:
The only (and most important for me at least) problem I have with all their vl styli for 881s (d81, d84) I tried is low trackability - results in sibilance. Otherwise build quality seems fine.
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The sibilance would not work for me either. I find it irritating in the extreme.
 
warrjon said:
That's because the brush imparts approx 1g of lift to the cartridge with the LP spinning so VTF at the stylus is still 1g.
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No, what us happening is you balance the arm with the brush and you dial in 1g more, but when the brush sits on the record it is self supporting so overall now is 1g less
 
cafe latte said:
No, what us happening is you balance the arm with the brush and you dial in 1g more, but when the brush sits on the record it is self supporting so overall now is 1g less
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That is incorrect, think about the physics of this for a moment.

The brush weighs approx 1g so imparts 1g of lift on the cartridge with the force on the LP.
 
This has always confused me and why I just remove the brush.
If I left the brush on and put the stylus AND brush on a digital scale I want to read 2 grams, correct? On turntables without dial in numbers on the arm you actually have to weigh the VTF.
 
Redd House said:
This has always confused me and why I just remove the brush.
If I left the brush on and put the stylus AND brush on a digital scale I want to read 2 grams, correct? On turntables without dial in numbers on the arm you actually have to weigh the VTF.
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If you install the brush and tape it up then set VTF to 2g drop the brush and put the stylus back on a scale it will read 1.9g because the brush put upwards force on the cartridge. The additional upwards force to reduce VTF by 1g is caused by the drag of the brush in the groove. Because the brush pivot is above the LP surface there is an upwards force generated by the LP's horizontal force on the brush.

This is about tonearms from Kuzma but the physics is the same

4Point-9-obrazlozitev-OK-out-web LR.jpg
 
warrjon said:
That is incorrect, think about the physics of this for a moment.

The brush weighs approx 1g so imparts 1g of lift on the cartridge with the force on the LP.
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No it is correct it confused me at the start think about it.. The cart has an extra 1g so to balance it you need to balance the extra 1g. Now dial in 2g but this is only really dialing in 1g as the 1g brush which is on a swivel is self supporting on the record so the dialled in 2g is really just 1g. Now think this way if you only dialled in 1g it is correct is the brush stayed part of the arm weight, but you are effectively removing that influence when the brush sets down on the record so now the arm needs another 1g do have correct 1g tracking force. The brush is dragged along the record it does not pull down at all. I am correct.
Chris
 
warrjon said:
If you install the brush and tape it up then set VTF to 2g drop the brush and put the stylus back on a scale it will read 1.9g because the brush put upwards force on the cartridge. The additional upwards force to reduce VTF by 1g is caused by the drag of the brush in the groove. Because the brush pivot is above the LP surface there is an upwards force generated by the LP's horizontal force on the brush.

This is about tonearms from Kuzma but the physics is the same

View attachment 2191099
Click to expand...
No as the pivot is in a place that does not influence tracking force. This has been known and done for decades this is correct and how Stanton say to do it. Also on a stylus scale the brush is not sitting on the vinyl not at the right height anyway.
This topic has been discussed hundreds of time here and on Vinyl engine, eventually the OP understands and believes long time Stanton users and for that matter Stanton who invented it.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
No it is correct it confused me at the start think about it.. The cart has an extra 1g so to balance it you need to balance the extra 1g. Now dial in 2g but this is only really dialing in 1g as the 1g brush which is on a swivel is self supporting on the record so the dialled in 2g is really just 1g. Now think this way if you only dialled in 1g it is correct is the brush stayed part of the arm weight, but you are effectively removing that influence when the brush sets down on the record so now the arm needs another 1g do have correct 1g tracking force. The brush is dragged along the record it does not pull down at all. I am correct.
Chris
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If you balance the arm with the brush you have already compensated for the 1g brush, If you now add 2g of VTF and place the stylus with brush down on a scale it will read 2g minus the slight upwards pressure that the brush imparts approx 0.1g. What you say makes no sense.

cafe latte said:
No as the pivot is in a place that does not influence tracking force. This has been known and done for decades this is correct and how Stanton say to do it. Also on a stylus scale the brush is not sitting on the vinyl not at the right height anyway.
This topic has been discussed hundreds of time here and on Vinyl engine, eventually the OP understands and believes long time Stanton users and for that matter Stanton who invented it.
Chris
Click to expand...

It may have been debated many times but this physics is well know and we all know the BS that is debated on audio forums.

The pivot is above the brush/LP contact point the laws of physics dictate there will be an upwards force imparted on the cartridge. Here is and extract from a Stanton Magnetics document. It clearly states the brush pushes the cartridge away from the LP, which is exactly what physics states will happen.

Untitled.jpg
 
warrjon said:
If you balance the arm with the brush you have already compensated for the 1g brush, If you now add 2g of VTF and place the stylus with brush down on a scale it will read 2g minus the slight upwards pressure that the brush imparts approx 0.1g. What you say makes no sense.



It may have been debated many times but this physics is well know and we all know the BS that is debated on audio forums.

The pivot is above the brush/LP contact point the laws of physics dictate there will be an upwards force imparted on the cartridge. Here is and extract from a Stanton Magnetics document. It clearly states the brush pushes the cartridge away from the LP, which is exactly what physics states will happen.

View attachment 2191105
Click to expand...
No you are wrong, the brush gets removed from the equation when the arm is lowered as the brush supports itself. Dont just type reply and actually think about this you are wrong which is fine I made the same mistake, you are wrong so was I.
Chris
 
I would like to use the brush on my AR XB. I use a digital scale or a Shure scale. There's no dial on the CW - the weight has to be moved and set screw tightened I never thought of taping up the brush. I'll try that and set the VTF at 1g. then I'll see what the scale says with the brush down... or should I set it at 2 grams with the brush taped up?
 
Leave the brush down and lower it onto the scale. It should read 2g. You are done as long as the brush is touching the scale. Or adjust arm so it hovers over LP with the brush on and down. Dial in 2g for arms with marked vtf and your done.
 
Redd House said:
I would like to use the brush on my AR XB. I use a digital scale or a Shure scale. There's no dial on the CW - the weight has to be moved and set screw tightened I never thought of taping up the brush. I'll try that and set the VTF at 1g. then I'll see what the scale says with the brush down... or should I set it at 2 grams with the brush taped up?
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I didn't read your post correctly before I posted above.

I tape the brush up so when I set VTF it's accurate as the brush will change the reading on the scale, albeit not by much, in my tests about minus 0.10 - 0.15g and it varies between these figures.

My tonearm also has no markings so VTF needs to be set by scales. It depends on how anal you want to be, unfortunately with my background I'm way too anal about these things and if I want 1g it's not going to be 1.1g static VTF.

I can hear the difference tracking at 0.75g as apposed to 1g but can't hear 1.0g to 1.1g so realistically what the guys in the previous 2 posts said is adequate.
 
Best way to figure out the vtf is to use a tracking test record and do the same test with or without the brush.
The amount of reverse/up force of the brush depends on the friction of the brush with the record and friction in the hinge of the brush. And these change after several miles of use. Too little friction will not result in enough up force causing higher than required vtf on the stylus. Too much friction will cause more up force and result in less than required vtf on the stylus.
 
triode said:
Best way to figure out the vtf is to use a tracking test record and do the same test with or without the brush.
The amount of reverse/up force of the brush depends on the friction of the brush with the record and friction in the hinge of the brush. And these change after several miles of use. Too little friction will not result in enough up force causing higher than required vtf on the stylus. Too much friction will cause more up force and result in less than required vtf on the stylus.
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The hinged does not affect tracking force. If there is high friction with hinged it is faulty, the hinged dhould be free.
 
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