Reveneering cabs ~ add or subtract value?
- Thread starter MikeCh
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ejfud
Audio Pinhead
I would say it depends on the condition of the cabinets before the re-veneer. If they are in bad shape, what can it do but raise the value, but if they are fixable than I'd say don't reveneer them.
Sadly a lot of the vintage speakers out there are worth more as parts than a whole.
Sadly a lot of the vintage speakers out there are worth more as parts than a whole.
MikeCh
Super Member
Yes, this is my issue. A sweet sounding pair of AR3a's that look like total ass. Crushed corners, deep-deep scrapes and open seams on a few edges of the 1960's veneer. I would like to keep them if I go whole hog and restore to the nth degree (reveneer cabs & replace xovers....the drivers are quite good at present and will need very little...doping mostly). But, selling is always an option too, either in part or in their current condition. I don't want to necessarily part them out because at least as far as the 3a's are concerned (IMO) the sum is greater than it's parts.
Mike
More than anything else, it depends on the rarity and value of the speakers.
If they're not extremely rare, then reveneering is pretty much in the same category as refoaming surrounds and recapping xovers. It would tend to make the speaker more valuable since it's working (and looking) like new.
Some early and rare stuff, you know, like all the high dollar equipment that always seems to end up going to Japan, I'd definitely leave that alone.
Unless you were sure you were going to keep it forever, then do whatever makes you happy!
If they're not extremely rare, then reveneering is pretty much in the same category as refoaming surrounds and recapping xovers. It would tend to make the speaker more valuable since it's working (and looking) like new.
Some early and rare stuff, you know, like all the high dollar equipment that always seems to end up going to Japan, I'd definitely leave that alone.
Unless you were sure you were going to keep it forever, then do whatever makes you happy!
dc270
Now Off the Reservation
This saddens me the most to see a really nice speaker getting parted out. If shipping were more reasonable and some people could pack them correctly, then maybe not so much. E-Pay is littered with a lot of really nice drivers that can bring pretty good money. There are even some great bargins like the perfect LE 14A's I got for $80, etc.
Once in a while the cabs can bring respectable monty as well- if a local buyer care to invest the $$$ for them.
DC
Once in a while the cabs can bring respectable monty as well- if a local buyer care to invest the $$$ for them.
DC
StarMover
AlienToAllThingsAudio
I just don't see how you can go wrong with a new wood veneer. Especially if the old veneer was damaged or perhaps you're replacing vinyl with wood.
Of course your skill will have something to do with the way it turns out. Applying veneer is nothing short of an art form, especially in terms of seams, matching grain, corners, ect.
Not a job for the timid or inexperienced.
Of course your skill will have something to do with the way it turns out. Applying veneer is nothing short of an art form, especially in terms of seams, matching grain, corners, ect.
Not a job for the timid or inexperienced.
If you keep them, why worry about the value. Just veneer them if they are bad. In any case, they aren't worth a TON of money even if they were perfect. How much could they get hurt from where they are? They surely aren't worth alot in parts either.
Do it and keep them.
Do it and keep them.
MikeCh
Super Member
Good point. If I reveneer them, I will keep them.....but at some point I might/could sell them many years down the road and my question is if I were to reveneer now, would or could that effect the value to somebody else at that time? (assuming I do a decent job of the veneer, etc.). I don't want to be facing the "duh, I should never have done the veneer" syndrome.
Mike
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
IMO, much would depend on the competence of the person doing the veneer work, the quality of the veneer, and the species of veneer.
For example, a well done cabinet in Rosewood, or any of a number of exotic veneers "should" always be worth more than the same cab in any typical Walnut or Oak veneer.
Don't forget "special" cuts and layups like bookmatching, crotch faces, diamond faces, etc....... most manufacturers would never consider the expense of these labor intensive veneering tecniques.
For example, a well done cabinet in Rosewood, or any of a number of exotic veneers "should" always be worth more than the same cab in any typical Walnut or Oak veneer.
Don't forget "special" cuts and layups like bookmatching, crotch faces, diamond faces, etc....... most manufacturers would never consider the expense of these labor intensive veneering tecniques.
JohnG
Active Member
Good forward thinking. It's kind of like the old victrola that someone else posted about that was gutted; at the time of the gutting it probably made sense but today we gasp at the horror.
Anyway, I just got a cheap Sony RTR with a scratched and dinged particle board surround. I'm thinking of just making a new surround out of oak or maple and saving the old one in case I want to sell it someday. It not rare or valuable but who knows if it might be down the road. Reveneering can be simple or hard, depending on the size and detail.
merrylander
AK Member
If, as you wrote, even some seams are opening up I would seriously consider making totally new cases and storing the old ones in the attic. This antique'ers fetish about never doing anything to the finish does not cut much ice with me.
Frex, we have a gateleg dining room table with six Pennsylvania Balloon Back chairs. People keeplling me, "Don't touch the finish". Never mind that the finish had already been done in a half-assed manner after they had removed the green paint some other genius put on them. I refinished them properly because I could see that this was not factory furniture, but rather a set that some craftsman had lovingly built for his wife, probably in the 1700s. The drop leaves of the table are Cherry and at least 24" wide and I cannot see a seam anywhere. The legs that swing are on a wooden hinge, carved into Ash, but have perished over the years, so someone stuck big strap hinges over the break. So far I have carved one new hinge in Ash (that stuff is hard) and am working on the second when I can. When they are done I will replace both sides of the table frame with hinges as they should be. Have I reduced the value of the set? No more than it already was through the amatuerish efforts of whoever did it before. Do I care? No because it is not for sale, all I want is to bring it back to the state where that original craftsman had it when he gave it to his wife.
Frex, we have a gateleg dining room table with six Pennsylvania Balloon Back chairs. People keeplling me, "Don't touch the finish". Never mind that the finish had already been done in a half-assed manner after they had removed the green paint some other genius put on them. I refinished them properly because I could see that this was not factory furniture, but rather a set that some craftsman had lovingly built for his wife, probably in the 1700s. The drop leaves of the table are Cherry and at least 24" wide and I cannot see a seam anywhere. The legs that swing are on a wooden hinge, carved into Ash, but have perished over the years, so someone stuck big strap hinges over the break. So far I have carved one new hinge in Ash (that stuff is hard) and am working on the second when I can. When they are done I will replace both sides of the table frame with hinges as they should be. Have I reduced the value of the set? No more than it already was through the amatuerish efforts of whoever did it before. Do I care? No because it is not for sale, all I want is to bring it back to the state where that original craftsman had it when he gave it to his wife.
MikeCh
Super Member
AR-3a
See pics and the story here:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=130683&highlight=ar3a
MikeCh
Super Member
It's kind of like the old victrola that someone else posted about that was gutted; at the time of the gutting it probably made sense but today we gasp at the horror.
Precisely what I am trying to avoid!
AR-3a's are a perfect example for this discussion...highly regarded, highly in demand, yet not expensive (not $hundreds++), and not rare. Not common, but they certainly do come up on eBay pretty often.
So, if you intend to keep them forever, do whatever you want.
If you think, well...I might want to sell them someday, then the veneer you pick should be something a potential buyer might like in their home.
So, zebrawood or any other highly-figured veneer should probably be avoided.
A nice walnut, or cherry, or mahogany, or maple, or any wood that doesn't make you reach for sunglasses, would be just fine! Together with replacing the grill cloth, you would have a gorgeous pair of AR-3a's that anybody would love to own.
So, if you intend to keep them forever, do whatever you want.
If you think, well...I might want to sell them someday, then the veneer you pick should be something a potential buyer might like in their home.
So, zebrawood or any other highly-figured veneer should probably be avoided.
A nice walnut, or cherry, or mahogany, or maple, or any wood that doesn't make you reach for sunglasses, would be just fine! Together with replacing the grill cloth, you would have a gorgeous pair of AR-3a's that anybody would love to own.
JohnG
Active Member
That makes sense. I know next to nothing about redoing speakers, but why a veneer rather than a rebuild for non-rare but somewhat valuable speakers? I assume they're currently made of plywood and/or particle board construction with a veneer stuck on the outside. Wouldn't real wood be possibly easier and look way more attractive or is cost of materials the issue? I assume it's to not effect the sound characteristics but again I'm clueless. :scratch2:
By "real" I assume you mean solid boards of wood. These aren't normally used for speaker building because of inconsistencies from one board to the next, possibilities of warping, cracking, or shrinking if they're not fully dried and protected from humidity, and cost.
Plywood has none of the above problems, or at least significantly less of those problems, and is easier to work with.
As to your question, sure, you could just build a new set of cabinets, but the time, effort, cost, tools required, skills required (if you're not already an experienced woodworker) makes that a lot of work as opposed to simply re-veneering the existing cabs, as long as they're reasonably solid. However, the resulting value would, essentially, go straight down to the value of the drivers as parts. Because that's what you'd have, a set of AR drivers in non-original wooden boxes.
And veneering is fun, and you can wow your friends with the results!
Plywood has none of the above problems, or at least significantly less of those problems, and is easier to work with.
As to your question, sure, you could just build a new set of cabinets, but the time, effort, cost, tools required, skills required (if you're not already an experienced woodworker) makes that a lot of work as opposed to simply re-veneering the existing cabs, as long as they're reasonably solid. However, the resulting value would, essentially, go straight down to the value of the drivers as parts. Because that's what you'd have, a set of AR drivers in non-original wooden boxes.
And veneering is fun, and you can wow your friends with the results!
JohnG
Active Member
Excellent info, thanks. I was thinking along the lines of what I did years ago with an old Kenwood cassette where I made new side panels out of oak. It was pretty simple to do and still looks pretty good. As you pointed out that doesn't quite work for speakers. If I ever get around to redoing the cabinet for my Sony RTR maybe I'll look into veneering it instead, thanks.
If you don't want to dive into reveneering right away, it's amazing what you can do with some cleaning and refinishing. There's a ton of threads on that, as well.
