REVIEW: Dual 1219 rebuild by NoTransistors

[beatcomber]

A couple of months ago I did some good old fashioned horsetrading with local AK'er LexDM, and as part of the deal ended up with a Dual 1219 in need of some TLC.

Like most old Dual idler-drive models, it suffered from the usual symptoms of dried, sticky lube. It was stuck in multi-play mode, the speed selector switch was seized up, and the auto functions were extremely sluggish and noisy. The motor also would not shut off at the end of a cycle.

My mechanical skills are rudimentary at best, but I figured this would be a good opportunity to learn how to sort out a record changer. I dutifully downloaded the official 1219 service manual as well as the DIY guide to servicing a 1219 that's circulating around the web, but I quickly ascertained that, even with these reference guides, I was way out of my league and needed to call in a pro.

There is a generally well-regarded Dual repair tech in the midwest, but I have made no secret of the dissatisfactory experiences I had with his servicing of 1019's for me on two occasions, so I wasn't about to deal with that again.

I had been reading about an AK'er in Brooklyn, NY with the handle NoTransistors who is experienced at servicing Dual turntables and whose work has gotten positive feedback. I contacted Seth (NoTransistors) and his quoted price for servicing the 1219 was in line with what the other guy charges, and so I made arrangements to drop the 1219 off with him during a visit to NYC.

This past Sunday I made a return trip to pick up the 1219, and Seth took the time to go over the special challenges he faced with my particular machine, showed me the parts he needed to replace and why he needed to replace them, and then hooked up my 1219 to his stereo and gave me a brief demo.

He also gave me a tip about using some silicone to fill the hollow areas on the underside of the platter, to reduce resonances (which I haven't yet done) and warned me against over-dampening the platter and completely deadening the sound.

I am happy to report that, unlike my two experiences with the other guy, Seth's work has completely met my expectations. All of the table's functions operate smoothly with no play in the levers, the arm moves perfectly freely with no apparent binding, the platter maintains instant and consistent pitch, and all of the auto functions work perfectly. Mechanical noise is very low and, unlike the two 1019s that the other guy worked on, this 1219 has absolutely zero rumble (which was a relief).

It's worth pointing out that potential customers will need to be patient with the process. Seth does not work quickly but his work is thorough and complete, with no short-cuts taken. Just don't expect it to be ready in a week.

After getting the 1219 home and set-up, there was one problem I found; even with the pitch adjustment lever all the way to the negative side, the platter ran considerably fast, as verified with a strobe. Uh oh.

I consulted the service manual on VE and adjusted the height of the motor pulley, but couldn't get the pulley low enough so that the platter would spin at 100% with the pitch control centered. I sent an email to Seth and he immediately diagnosed the likely source of the problem; he told me to pop off the pulley and check for burrs or rust causing the pulley to not be fully adjustable. Sure enough, there was a burr on the pulley's mounting spindle, which I removed with some gentle filing. Voila, problem solved!

 

[specialone53]

Indeed, a PROPER servicing of these ancient changers will result in "like new" flawless operation.
And yes, there are not many servicers around these days to accomplish that job, so you got lucky.

Having resources like parts is another good thing, since they're hard to get.

The ones I've done for people are I'm sure still purring away too - they deserve to live long lives.

 

[JHS2RT]

No Transistors----------one of our finest.

 

[bobins08]

A couple of months ago I did some good old fashioned horsetrading with local AK'er LexDM, and as part of the deal ended up with a Dual 1219 in need of some TLC.

Like most old Dual idler-drive models, it suffered from the usual symptoms of dried, sticky lube. It was stuck in multi-play mode, the speed selector switch was seized up, and the auto functions were extremely sluggish and noisy. The motor also would not shut off at the end of a cycle.

My mechanical skills are rudimentary at best, but I figured this would be a good opportunity to learn how to sort out a record changer. I dutifully downloaded the official 1219 service manual as well as the DIY guide to servicing a 1219 that's circulating around the web, but I quickly ascertained that, even with these reference guides, I was way out of my league and needed to call in a pro.

There is a generally well-regarded Dual repair tech in the midwest, but I have made no secret of the dissatisfactory experiences I had with his servicing of 1019's for me on two occasions, so I wasn't about to deal with that again.

I had been reading about an AK'er in Brooklyn, NY with the handle NoTransistors who is experienced at servicing Dual turntables and whose work has gotten positive feedback. I contacted Seth (NoTransistors) and his quoted price for servicing the 1219 was in line with what the other guy charges, and so I made arrangements to drop the 1219 off with him during a visit to NYC.

This past Sunday I made a return trip to pick up the 1219, and Seth took the time to go over the special challenges he faced with my particular machine, showed me the parts he needed to replace and why he needed to replace them, and then hooked up my 1219 to his stereo and gave me a brief demo.

He also gave me a tip about using some silicone to fill the hollow areas on the underside of the platter, to reduce resonances (which I haven't yet done) and warned me against over-dampening the platter and completely deadening the sound.

I am happy to report that, unlike my two experiences with the other guy, Seth's work has completely met my expectations. All of the table's functions operate smoothly with no play in the levers, the arm moves perfectly freely with no apparent binding, the platter maintains instant and consistent pitch, and all of the auto functions work perfectly. Mechanical noise is very low and, unlike the two 1019s that the other guy worked on, this 1219 has absolutely zero rumble (which was a relief).

It's worth pointing out that potential customers will need to be patient with the process. Seth does not work quickly but his work is thorough and complete, with no short-cuts taken. Just don't expect it to be ready in a week.

After getting the 1219 home and set-up, there was one problem I found; even with the pitch adjustment lever all the way to the negative side, the platter ran considerably fast, as verified with a strobe. Uh oh.

I consulted the service manual on VE and adjusted the height of the motor pulley, but couldn't get the pulley low enough so that the platter would spin at 100% with the pitch control centered. I sent an email to Seth and he immediately diagnosed the likely source of the problem; he told me to pop off the pulley and check for burrs or rust causing the pulley to not be fully adjustable. Sure enough, there was a burr on the pulley's mounting spindle, which I removed with some gentle filing. Voila, problem solved!

Very cool.

How about some pictures and a comparison to your TD 124 idler?

The going price of the 1219/1229 is much less than a TD 124. It would be interesting to know how the two compare head-to-head when both are operating and set up properly.

cheers, Bob

 

[beatcomber]

Very cool.

How about some pictures and a comparison to your TD 124 idler?

Will do once I've had a chance to finish cleaning up the appearance of the 1219, and spend some quality time listening to it.

The going price of the 1219/1229 is much less than a TD 124. It would be interesting to know how the two compare head-to-head when both are operating and set up properly.

I've been using the 1219 in my main system since Sunday night, and I haven't felt a longing to go back to the Thorens... That's not to say that it is better, but it certainly does not suck!

Incidentally, I tried Seth's recommendation to fill the hollow channels on the underside of the platter with some silicone, and it does seem to have improved the bass definition and better focus the imaging.

 

[Sanc]

Very cool. Glad to hear another 1219 is running great! We definitely need some pictures

Odd question, you see many people picking up the solid style plinths for TD-124 tables, apparently it helps reduce rumble. Do people ever do this kind of upgrade with Dual idlers?

 

[illini]

Glad to hear another 1219 is running great! We definitely need some pictures.

This is a very interesting thread. :yes:

 

[grooveman]

The going price of the 1219/1229 is much less than a TD 124. It would be interesting to know how the two compare head-to-head when both are operating and set up properly.

I own a 1229 that I use in my HT system. Not a bad sounding turntable for secondary use. But I highly doubt it even comes close to a Thorens 124 with a decent tonearm. I'd trade my 1229 for 124 in a heartbeat. But that's probably never going to happen.

 

[fred soop]

.....
Incidentally, I tried Seth's recommendation to fill the hollow channels on the underside of the platter with some silicone, and it does seem to have improved the bass definition and better focus the imaging.

Would that improvement also apply to the later belt drive Duals? My 506 sounds good but the platter lacks that extreme mass of the old 7 pound in the Garrard Lab 80.

Also, if I tap on the mat, it sounds hollow in those locations over the holes in the metal needed to access the belt.

 

[beatcomber]

Would that improvement also apply to the later belt drive Duals? My 506 sounds good but the platter lacks that extreme mass of the old 7 pound in the Garrard Lab 80.

Also, if I tap on the mat, it sounds hollow in those locations over the holes in the metal needed to access the belt.

Probably!

 

[beatcomber]

Some more thoughts on the 1219...

Overall, I prefer the 1219 to the 1019. I like the fact that it has a full-size platter, and I also like the fact that the auto-start function is gentle, unlike the 1019 which kind of slams the arm down onto the record.

Adding some silicone (or latex caulk) to the hollow channels on the underside of the platter definitely makes a substantial improvement to bass definition and imaging depth.

The PRaT and overall sonic 'weight' of an idler-driven Dual is something pretty darn special. Its character is very different from my TD-124; these Duals reach out and shake you whereas the Thorens has more of a "bouncy" sort of rhythmic drive.

The 1219 sounds spectacular with a Shure M91ED and JICO SAS. The arm is quite good, I think.

I am having a solid ball with the 1219!

 

[fred soop]

.....
The arm is quite good, I think.
.....

There are very few arms that are better. Also note that the arm is first balanced with the counterweight, then the tracking force is applied with a calibrated spring rather than the more common unbalancing of the counterweight. This results in a true dynamically balanced arm which will track properly in any position, even upside down if you have a clamp to hold the record in place. I learned this from Empire advertising in the 1960s.

Some friends were recently amazed when I was able to play a record, then pick up the turntable (Dual 506) and tilt it to near vertical in several different directions and set it back on the shelf with no interruption whatsoever in the playing.

With a Shure M97XE, I was able to get the tracking force down to 1.25g, lowest I've ever managed on any turntable. Unfortunately, the Shure seemed to have excessive imbalance between channels so I finally found a proper new stylus for the ADC XLM II Improved and remounted that. Tracking force is now back up to 1.5g but the balance is much better.

 

[sberger]

Some more thoughts on the 1219...

Overall, I prefer the 1219 to the 1019. I like the fact that it has a full-size platter, and I also like the fact that the auto-start function is gentle, unlike the 1019 which kind of slams the arm down onto the record.

Adding some silicone (or latex caulk) to the hollow channels on the underside of the platter definitely makes a substantial improvement to bass definition and imaging depth.

The PRaT and overall sonic 'weight' of an idler-driven Dual is something pretty darn special. Its character is very different from my TD-124; these Duals reach out and shake you whereas the Thorens has more of a "bouncy" sort of rhythmic drive.

The 1219 sounds spectacular with a Shure M91ED and JICO SAS. The arm is quite good, I think.

I am having a solid ball with the 1219!

Hmmm, my 1019 arm does not slam the arm down. Maybe I got lucky.

You should try your 8MZ with the 1219. Using one with my 1019 and it's the best match yet. Love my various Shure's on it, but the Grado F1+/8MZ is really something special.

 

[beatcomber]

Hmmm, my 1019 arm does not slam the arm down. Maybe I got lucky.

Look again. It's connected to the mechanical linkage on the 1019. The speed with which the arm drops in auto mode is determined by the platter speed, so it really hammers it at 78 speed. I guess that cartridges were more robust in 1965, so it wasn't an issue.

On the 1219, it gently glides to the surface of the record, no matter what the speed is.

You should try your 8MZ with the 1219. Using one with my 1019 and it's the best match yet. Love my various Shure's on it, but the Grado F1+/8MZ is really something special.

I thought about using my spare Grado - a ZC+ with an 8MZ stylus - on the Dual, but I also want to use the Dual for 78 duty. I do have a Grado 78 stylus, but swapping styli is more of a PITA with Grados, but I might try it out anyway.

 

[grooveman]

There are very few arms that are better.

Seriously?! FWIW...tonearm design and engineering has come a long way in the last 40 years! And that includes some of the best arms that were available at that time including SME, EMT, Ortofon, Linn etc., SME's current tonearms(and tables) for example, have continued to evolve and improve over the years.

 

[beatcomber]

Seriously?! FWIW...tonearm design and engineering has come a long way in the last 40 years! And that includes some of the best arms that were available at that time including SME, EMT, Ortofon, Linn etc., SME's current tonearms(and tables) for example, have continued to evolve and improve over the years.

Yeah, I noticed that too, but decided to let it go. Within its class, the 1219's arm is still quite good.

 

[sberger]

Look again. It's connected to the mechanical linkage on the 1019. The speed with which the arm drops in auto mode is determined by the platter speed, so it really hammers it at 78 speed. I guess that cartridges were more robust in 1965, so it wasn't an issue.

On the 1219, it gently glides to the surface of the record, no matter what the speed is.

You're right about the violent action on 78, but I don't use automatic for 78's in general, and I don't use the 1019 either. I have an Elac Miracord 45 for that. But on 33 the mechanism is smooth, precise and gentle.

That said, I typically don't use the automatic functions when starting a record.

 

[beatcomber]

You're right about the violent action on 78, but I don't use automatic for 78's in general, and I don't use the 1019 either. I have an Elac Miracord 45 for that. But on 33 the mechanism is smooth, precise and gentle.

That said, I typically don't use the automatic functions when starting a record.

Yup, it's best to manually set it down at the start of a side. But you're correct, the action on a properly serviced Dual is smooth and accurate.

 

[beatcomber]

File Under Dumb A$$:

I powered up the 1219 tonight after a grueling day at work and immediately got a ground loop hum. Touching the tonearm produced an even louder hum. Oh, schitt!

I spent a good half hour futzing with the headshell, checking and rechecking the leads on the cart pins, and messing around with the ground connection on the amp. No dice.
:dammit:

Then I finally flipped it over and looked at the RCA connections on the chassis. A ha! The right channel interconnect was barely plugged in!!! Voila, problem solved.

Whatta dumb a$$ I yam!! :withstpd:

---------

I gotta say, this 1219 has exceeded my wildest expectations. The TD-124 hasn't been used all week.

Dang...

 

[stereofisher]

Glad you got a 1219!

Some more thoughts on the 1219...

Overall, I prefer the 1219 to the 1019. I like the fact that it has a full-size platter, and I also like the fact that the auto-start function is gentle, unlike the 1019 which kind of slams the arm down onto the record.

Adding some silicone (or latex caulk) to the hollow channels on the underside of the platter definitely makes a substantial improvement to bass definition and imaging depth.

The PRaT and overall sonic 'weight' of an idler-driven Dual is something pretty darn special. Its character is very different from my TD-124; these Duals reach out and shake you whereas the Thorens has more of a "bouncy" sort of rhythmic drive.



The 1219 sounds spectacular with a Shure M91ED and JICO SAS. The arm is quite good, I think.

I am having a solid ball with the 1219!

The 1219/1229 have been a joy. Have one of each. My 1219 was a last fall project. Went through it, cleaned out the old grease,cleaned and oiled the motor,fixed the sticky on-off and I was good to go. Have it in the bedroom. Usually end the day with a tune. Came with a nice Shure V15 type II!

Like you, I like the 1200 series better. Nice big 12 inch platter. Though I think the 1000 series Dual are a little easier to work on. Have fun with it. Still drool when I see your posts with that Thorens! But hey, the more turntables the better. Got three Duals and a BIC 960 that I don't really don't know quite what to do with? Have fun with 1219..keep posting your impression of it!

Eric