LordOfChaos
King Oracle
I have an opportunity to buy a ReVox B710. I wonder if I should bite the bullet and buy it? (I can afford it) What is your opinion of this model? Good and bad.
ReVox B710
- Thread starter LordOfChaos
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SaSi
Seriously Illogical
The MkII variant is better as it offers Dolby C.
This is an excellent transport, with lots of things that need servicing.
Frako caps and some blue philips caps need to go. Pinch rollers usually give problems and they need to be replaced with fresh ones before starting to do adjustments. The reel motors sometimes are worn out and need repair. A full recap is advisable.
After all that, it becomes a very potent deck. One of the top 10 best transports and very serviceable.
This is an excellent transport, with lots of things that need servicing.
Frako caps and some blue philips caps need to go. Pinch rollers usually give problems and they need to be replaced with fresh ones before starting to do adjustments. The reel motors sometimes are worn out and need repair. A full recap is advisable.
After all that, it becomes a very potent deck. One of the top 10 best transports and very serviceable.
LordOfChaos
King Oracle
Well, I just bought it. You only live once I guess. I'll give my opinion of it when I get it.
This is what the seller had to say about it. They have exceptional feedback.
SERVICED
BENCH TESTED A+ / SCORED 100%.
FULLY FUNCTIONAL, EVERYTHING WORKS AS IT SHOULD.
- All dust has been carefully removed from the interior of the unit and all exterior surfaces have been meticulously cleaned.
- Partially recapped.
- Internal trim pots cleaned and adjusted to factory specs.
- Control pots & switches have been cleaned and lubricated and operate flawlessly.
- All solder joints have been checked with a jewelers loupe for cold solder and reflowed where necessary.
- The faceplate was removed, thoroughly cleaned and polished.
- The tape heads have been cleaned and demagnetized.
This is what the seller had to say about it. They have exceptional feedback.
SERVICED
BENCH TESTED A+ / SCORED 100%.
FULLY FUNCTIONAL, EVERYTHING WORKS AS IT SHOULD.
- All dust has been carefully removed from the interior of the unit and all exterior surfaces have been meticulously cleaned.
- Partially recapped.
- Internal trim pots cleaned and adjusted to factory specs.
- Control pots & switches have been cleaned and lubricated and operate flawlessly.
- All solder joints have been checked with a jewelers loupe for cold solder and reflowed where necessary.
- The faceplate was removed, thoroughly cleaned and polished.
- The tape heads have been cleaned and demagnetized.
SaSi
Seriously Illogical
Enjoy it when you get it.
Partially recapped might be ok. Just make sure no FRAKO and blue Philips capacitors are left. Start with the power supply.
I doubt a deck with original pinch rollers will function ok. Check them. Some may look ok but if hardened they don't function right. In all three of my B710 variants, pinch rollers were soft and gummy and caused problems I initially was in denial but as soon as they were replaced, problems disappeared.
One quick test to verify the transport operates adequately is to FF and REW cassettes. When you rewind a cassette, it must stop at the beginning and then briefly engage play to move the tape right after the leader tape section. I've seen this not happen in decks that had other intermittent issues.
And another test for the reel motors is FF/REW by itself. If the process doesn't go to the full extent of the tape, suspect the reel motors. Especially if they are noisy.
Partially recapped might be ok. Just make sure no FRAKO and blue Philips capacitors are left. Start with the power supply.
I doubt a deck with original pinch rollers will function ok. Check them. Some may look ok but if hardened they don't function right. In all three of my B710 variants, pinch rollers were soft and gummy and caused problems I initially was in denial but as soon as they were replaced, problems disappeared.
One quick test to verify the transport operates adequately is to FF and REW cassettes. When you rewind a cassette, it must stop at the beginning and then briefly engage play to move the tape right after the leader tape section. I've seen this not happen in decks that had other intermittent issues.
And another test for the reel motors is FF/REW by itself. If the process doesn't go to the full extent of the tape, suspect the reel motors. Especially if they are noisy.
perryinva
IS it vintage????
Good luck. First, let me say that I love the B710 visually, and own two. But these were designed in the early days of the HIFI cassette era, mid to late ‘70s. The electronics are 45 years old.
Maybe I’m more Debbie Downer than most, but when a “service” facility highlights dust removal and a polished faceplate and cleaned heads as the major service points, that sends up red flags. Partially recapped is standard service jargon for replacement of caps to make it work.
Without new or rerubbered pinch rollers, the deck will have high W&F and can be a tape eating machine. The B710 variants have 3 different pinch roller designs, and they are critical on all versions. The preferred version is the last of the MKIIs like Sasi mentioned, as they have the exact same design as the later B215. The first gen B710s are full of internal factory mods, and have known edge connector issues.
Why mention a polished faceplate? There is nothing to polish on a B710. The faceplate is painted steel, with a drop down brushed aluminum door. I guess you can polish the two knobs and the dust cover.
The B710 is only a fair recording deck, since there are zero calibration adjustments externally. Not even bias fine tune, so it only records well on the specific tapes it is calibrated for. It can be a fine playback deck, as it is silent in operation and totally beltless.
Without a full recap and transport service, though, it is an inevitable disappointment somewhere down the road.
Fully serviced, though, they are good for many many years of operation. Be aware some people do not like the sound of them as they are rather full (9, IIRC) of early 4066 CMOS switches, which can be distortion generators.
Indeed, except for the power switch, those cool large toggle switches on the front do not directly switch anything, but instead are state change switches that switch internal logic. The clock keeps terrible time, accurate to about a minute a day, and is only visible when the deck is powered on and the capstans are turning.
I really don’t know what Revox was thinking when they entered the cassette market.
Maybe I’m more Debbie Downer than most, but when a “service” facility highlights dust removal and a polished faceplate and cleaned heads as the major service points, that sends up red flags. Partially recapped is standard service jargon for replacement of caps to make it work.
Without new or rerubbered pinch rollers, the deck will have high W&F and can be a tape eating machine. The B710 variants have 3 different pinch roller designs, and they are critical on all versions. The preferred version is the last of the MKIIs like Sasi mentioned, as they have the exact same design as the later B215. The first gen B710s are full of internal factory mods, and have known edge connector issues.
Why mention a polished faceplate? There is nothing to polish on a B710. The faceplate is painted steel, with a drop down brushed aluminum door. I guess you can polish the two knobs and the dust cover.
The B710 is only a fair recording deck, since there are zero calibration adjustments externally. Not even bias fine tune, so it only records well on the specific tapes it is calibrated for. It can be a fine playback deck, as it is silent in operation and totally beltless.
Without a full recap and transport service, though, it is an inevitable disappointment somewhere down the road.
Fully serviced, though, they are good for many many years of operation. Be aware some people do not like the sound of them as they are rather full (9, IIRC) of early 4066 CMOS switches, which can be distortion generators.
Indeed, except for the power switch, those cool large toggle switches on the front do not directly switch anything, but instead are state change switches that switch internal logic. The clock keeps terrible time, accurate to about a minute a day, and is only visible when the deck is powered on and the capstans are turning.
I really don’t know what Revox was thinking when they entered the cassette market.
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Tinman
Super Member
I'm with Perryinva on these. Had all the Revox decks at one time. The B710 is my least favorite. I just like it's almost Steampunk look today and use it for a tape winder. There's nothing in particular "wrong" with them, they are just kinda fickle. It doesn't like some tapes, if the pinch rollers and tape path aren't perfect it likes to eat tapes... recording is "meh" due to the above mentioned limitations... Properly serviced it is a nice playback deck.
Due to their fickle nature and absurd customer expectations I no longer rebuild them either. You can't make a fickle deck better than new.
Due to their fickle nature and absurd customer expectations I no longer rebuild them either. You can't make a fickle deck better than new.
perryinva
IS it vintage????
Haha, Steampunk!! YES, that is it (unintentionally, of course) exactly! Sort of “Mortal Engines” industrial world design. Largest tape counter ever, giant toggles, polished knobs, drop down door..all vintage eye candy and very tactile. And in really proper nick, they play very well. I have the newer one coupled via the DIN input with a B791 turntable, & B226 CD player to a B780 receiver. I use the other tape input with a switch box to switch in 3 other tape decks on rotation. The older (still a MKII) has the smaller supply pinch roller and has been fully restored as well. I really should sell it, and haven’t because of all the effort I put in to it. It was the first one I owned and it took forever to get it dialed in. Sort of “dman it, I’m going to enjoy this thing if it kills me!” But I do have way too many decks that I hang on to for the same faulty logic! You can’t expect to break even on everything.
LordOfChaos
King Oracle
It should arrive this Friday. I'm going to use it mainly for playback. I'll find out it's true condition then. I'll report my findings. (Fingers crossed)
Now I've read elsewhere an in this thread, that the B710 is fickle and doesn't like some tapes. Any certain kind of tapes it doesn't like? Or is it just a random?
Now I've read elsewhere an in this thread, that the B710 is fickle and doesn't like some tapes. Any certain kind of tapes it doesn't like? Or is it just a random?
perryinva
IS it vintage????
Doesn’t like certain tapes really refers to recording (no -X or -S tapes for best sound) & length, and really depends on which version you get. For all we know, it is a MK I, which is Dolby B only and has more potential issues. A later MKII has far fewer. Avoid anything longer than 90min, and any tape that already has damage or high friction, is good advice for any small supply roller B710. On my B710s, everything has been replaced and there is no problem with playback of most any tapes now. If a tape skews, on mine it is random.
Oh, and I was exaggerating about the clock. Mine loses maybe 30 seconds a week, but really, digital clocks were obviously more accurate than that in the late ‘70s.
Oh, and I was exaggerating about the clock. Mine loses maybe 30 seconds a week, but really, digital clocks were obviously more accurate than that in the late ‘70s.
LordOfChaos
King Oracle
I've never liked tapes over 90 minutes. I've had issues with them. I definitely won't be getting any over 90 minutes. As for recording, I may record a few records I have, just to see how it goes. I guess I'll have to check out some blank tapes. I haven't bought any in years.
Here's a picture of the one I'm getting. Sellers pic, since I don't have it yet.
Tinman
Super Member
It will also not like "tight" tapes as well as damaged tapes. My C-3X plays all those like nothing.
When I DID rebuild them, I tested with 100minute tapes to be CERTAIN it would play properly to the end.
If it needs new pinch rollers, skewing and wow and flutter go way up near the end of tape.
It's a very nice deck, but the sellers are the only one's winning now. Someone please buy mine for way too much money!
Note: NEVER meet your heroes......
Remember, regardless of how good it was when new.. it is now very, very old.
When I DID rebuild them, I tested with 100minute tapes to be CERTAIN it would play properly to the end.
If it needs new pinch rollers, skewing and wow and flutter go way up near the end of tape.
It's a very nice deck, but the sellers are the only one's winning now. Someone please buy mine for way too much money!
Note: NEVER meet your heroes......
Remember, regardless of how good it was when new.. it is now very, very old.
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perryinva
IS it vintage????
So the OP is getting an original MKI. It sure is in beautiful shape! I just finished re-restoring my SN 22xxx MKII, got rid of the tantalums and made a few chip changes. (Hate those 4136 opamps, and 5532 in most audio places instead of 4559 helps too) and applied some knowledge I’ve earned over the last 10 years, and I have to say, it is pretty impressive on TypeIV recordings for a 1984 deck, and has nice slam on prerecorded tapes. W&F is between .025-.035, distortion for Sendust heads is very good, and it is quiet to boot. I was wrong about the clock, in that it can be on when the deck is off by hitting Mode. The crystal frequency is adjustable but you have to hit 4MHz measured exactly and it drifts with temp. I adjusted it again and will see how accurate it is now. My newest one has the full internal remote so it actually powers down in standby mode with the remote, for timed recordings on it’s own. It is still a bit bass challenged in recordings (down about 2dB at 30Hz from 50Hz, and another 2 dB at 20Hz, but actually a bit bass heavy (+2@30Hz) on prerecorded playback. I’m playing it more now these past few days (typical after working some on any deck) and enjoying it thoroughly.
LordOfChaos
King Oracle
It arrived today. It looked nice, almost like new. I hooked it up to my AVR and it didn't work. There's no sound and there's no signal to the meters. I don't believe I set it up wrong, unless there's more to it than meets the eye. I've been dealing with tape decks since the 70's and this doesn't seem especially complicated.
I would guess in its journey across the country, something happened to it. But anyway, if I can't figure it out, there's a tech in town I'll bring it to.
I would guess in its journey across the country, something happened to it. But anyway, if I can't figure it out, there's a tech in town I'll bring it to.
perryinva
IS it vintage????
No motion on the meters? It's got something screwed early in the signal chain, or it is stuck in Source mode. (Try sending a signal to it and see if the meters show the Source signal and the signal comes out the output) Personally, I'd send it back. If you take it to a tech, besides being out the cost of the inspection, then they will not have to accept it as a return as a "non working item", if you tell them what a tech found wrong. There is nothing complicated about it's use. If something broke in shipping it is not likely to be something simple. The cards can't come unplugged, or anything like that. I'll sell you my other B710 MKII for less than you paid for that MKI, (which hasn't been mentioned, is designed for pure Chrome TypeII tapes, and often can't be rebiased for regular Cobalt doped TypeII like TDK SA & Maxell XLII) and mine has been fully restored to the T, AND I will calibrate the deck to the tapes of your choice. W&F on mine is .025-.03%, which is VERY low for any Revox cassette deck. Send me your email and I can send you some plots & pics if you are interested. I am found at perry.nak at comcast dot net.
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LordOfChaos
King Oracle
Well, I brought it to a tech. Some of the boards came loose due to Fedex and their rough handling. Throwing the box or dropping it. He's going to go over it to make sure everything is running properly. Hopefully I'll get it back soon.
The saga continues.
The saga continues.
LordOfChaos
King Oracle
I got it back today. It now works as should. It sounds amazing. The Revox definitely sounds better than my past tape decks. The best one I had was an Akai 570D.
Jonny Ramone
Super Member
I found my original copy of high fidelity magazine from 1983, which has a review of the B710, though Revox sent a second deck, as this test deck had out of spec low-frequency bumps. https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-High-Fidelity/80s/High-Fidelity-1983-02.pdf
LordOfChaos
King Oracle
Thanks for this, it's most interesting.
