Sansui 7070 vs SS 7000 Restored? Diffrence

[jgscott]

I have a chance to buy a Sansui 7070 and/or a Sansui Solid State 7000. Both Restored. I may buy both or one or the other? Will not have a chance to listen to either. I am aware that the 7000 is a cap coupled receiver.

I do know that the 7000 I'm thinking of buying had a really good restoration performed and there was a Sound improvement. The 7070 is restored but I don't know as much about it, likely a very good restoration too.

I am a big Fan of my Sansui Solid State 4000, but also like everything from the Six, to the DBZ8900. Either the 7070 or the 7000 will have enough watts for the listening level I listen at. I am also aware of the old what sounds better to your ears facts. What I'm asking for is opinions of those that have heard or know about them. Thanks.

 

[nosirrah]

The 7070 is probably a bit better sounding to my ancient ears, I've owned both. The audio across the range seems fuller to me.
The 7000 is an earlier receiver that led to the X0X0 series. If prices are the same it's the 7070 for me

 

[jgscott]

Is the 7070 close to the g-Series sound?

 

[kevzep]

Is the 7070 close to the g-Series sound?

No totally different amplifier topology.

 

[Sansuiman]

I think one needs put a hard dividing line in two places regarding Sansui's history. First is the end of the tube era/start of solid state. The second is the maturing of solid state amps into high speed direct coupled designs that debuted with the G series.

Or in terms of actual years, pre 1969 for the tube era, 1969-1977 for the early solid state era and 1978-2000 for the advanced solid state era, to include the Alpha series amps of the 90's onward.

Now, I own gear ranging from 1967-1987 and enjoy all of it. I don't own anything post-1990 - yet. But there is no denying that the jump from the 9090 to the G9000 (which was the direct successor to the 9090) was almost as notable an event as the jump from the 1000A to the 5000.

So, you have three distinct eras with uniquely characteristic sound qualities (and some noticeable variance with each of those three periods well). 7000 is cap coupled as already discussed, so comparing it with the 7070 is kind of futile.

I like the 9090 series of receivers, and do enjoy their sound. But it is not the same as the cap coupled designs (and I enjoy listening them also), nor is it the same as the DC pure power designs that repaced it. And the further you get from that second era that ended with the 9090 series, the more they refined the signature sound into something else yet again.

As to what sounds best, I think you'll find the heaviest preference here among currently active posters is for the G series and later. But, this is a highly subjective judgement to make. Your preference, mine, and everyone else's are influenced by so many factors that it is folly to try and make such decisions without actually listening and deciding for yourself.

Ultimately it may be as simple as getting what you find appealing enough that is readily available at a price you can stomach. Which is getting to be less and less these days with the ever inflating valuations on this gear, speaking for myself anyway.

 

[jgscott]

The 7000 was modded and restored to a much lower Noise level and modded to be a much fasted receiver. Just providing more info. I've heard the different era's. each has its own liking to me. I have not heard the 7070, 8080, 9090 series.

To me the 4000 series is just so different to my liking. My gap is in hearing the 7070, 8080, 9090. is why I've asked? I'm wondering if I just choose the 7000 did I miss something special about the 7070? I will admit I love how they look more that any of the other Sansui Receivers.

The only things left untouched on the restored 7000 are the big main filter cap, the output coupling caps. The preamp stage is spec'd at less than 0.1% distortion, and the power amp at less than 0.4% distortion. Following the restoration, the measured the combined output at less than 0.05% distortion. After restoration the 7000 rated @ 70 watts measured clipping at 75.

 

[jgscott]

No totally different amplifier topology.

Sounds?

 

[kevzep]

Sounds?

Well in terms of sounds, its highly subjective, we all have different hearing, listen to different music, different mediums, so I don't really like telling people "what amps sound like" because you might not agree, you think I have no idea what I am talking about and nobody gets anywhere.....

For what its worth, I find the G series and the direct coupled type designs need very good speakers, they are fussy, the better the speaker, the more performance you can extract from those amps, theres a lot of detail possible from the G series which if you do not have the right speakers can get lost.

To me they have the most "Realistic" and "Natural" sound of the Sansui line to my ears, the "complete picture" if you will.
I find on the earlier designs with the exception of the AU999 with a whole bunch of modifications, there's always something I feel doesn't make it to my ears, they don't sound "bad", they do sound good, but for me, there's something they don't manage to achieve for me.
People may disagree, and thats fine, we all listen to music differently, but I can only tell you what I hear, I am a musician and an Audio Engineer, so I know specifically what and how I want to hear things, and the G series, AU-X1 and some of the later amps perform and present music the way I like to hear it.

Of course, my Main system (McIntosh) in my signature is the one that tells the most truth when I am listening to music, but my modified G22000 does a pretty damn fine job too.

 

[eiraved]

I happen to have owned at one time each of the 7xxx series Sansui receivers, G7000, 7070 and 7000. Funny but I also owned the 719 integrated amp, LOL!. Out of the bunch only the 7000 remains. The external construction is similar to the Sansui Eight in design, dial glass is actually glass and not plastic. Control knobs are like quality machined ingots. The competitors don't compare in this aspect, except the G7000 does have that fine jewelry appearance about it.

The sound quality is different than the others, not necessarily better to some but I like it better. I enjoy tubes and the 7000 is more like them sonically to my ears.

 

[jgscott]

Well in terms of sounds, its highly subjective, we all have different hearing, listen to different music, different mediums, so I don't really like telling people "what amps sound like" because you might not agree, you think I have no idea what I am talking about and nobody gets anywhere.....

For what its worth, I find the G series and the direct coupled type designs need very good speakers, they are fussy, the better the speaker, the more performance you can extract from those amps, theres a lot of detail possible from the G series which if you do not have the right speakers can get lost.

To me they have the most "Realistic" and "Natural" sound of the Sansui line to my ears, the "complete picture" if you will.
I find on the earlier designs with the exception of the AU999 with a whole bunch of modifications, there's always something I feel doesn't make it to my ears, they don't sound "bad", they do sound good, but for me, there's something they don't manage to achieve for me.
People may disagree, and thats fine, we all listen to music differently, but I can only tell you what I hear, I am a musician and an Audio Engineer, so I know specifically what and how I want to hear things, and the G series, AU-X1 and some of the later amps perform and present music the way I like to hear it.

Of course, my Main system (McIntosh) in my signature is the one that tells the most truth when I am listening to music, but my modified G22000 does a pretty damn fine job too.

Thank you that is what I wanted to know. That's all we can give is ones own opinion.

I've heard a lot of different upper end G Series and owned a few myself. I know what you are saying about the G Series. I often fall back to thinking the G Series is so good sounding that I should just stick with one, but. I personally feel they are just a little over Dynamic. There is lots of good in that but, I prefer the smoother delivery and better separation flow of the previous Sansui models.

I guess I'm kinda wondering if the 7070 series is a mix of both the old and new? Or is a well restored and improved 7000 the Sansui of Sansui's.

Hopefully we can all express the what sounds best without the old what sounds best to you cliché. Thanks.

 

[jgscott]

I happen to have owned at one time each of the 7xxx series Sansui receivers, G7000, 7070 and 7000. Funny but I also owned the 719 integrated amp, LOL!. Out of the bunch only the 7000 remains. The external construction is similar to the Sansui Eight in design, dial glass is actually glass and not plastic. Control knobs are like quality machined ingots. The competitors don't compare in this aspect, except the G7000 does have that fine jewelry appearance about it.

The sound quality is different than the others, not necessarily better to some but I like it better. I enjoy tubes and the 7000 is more like them sonically to my ears.

This is why I think the improved 7000 would likely be my cup of Tea.

Appearance wise the G series is a looker, but I love the look of the 7070 series best.

Can you explain in any way what you heard in the 7000 in addition to tube sound why you like the 7000 more?

I don't like the indented controls notches on the 7000 tho. I wish they were like the 4000.

 

[Sansuiman]

I can see modding the 7000 for a lower noise floor. Can't understand how it would have been made much faster (in terms of slew rate and the like) without a substantial re-engineering of the driver and output stage, at which point it is no longer truly a 7000.

At this point you have had first hand experience listening to the 4000 and the 8900ZDB. If you are truly enamored of the sound of the 4000, then the 7000 will probably be more to your liking based on familiarity. Conversely, if you find the 8900ZDB to be more to your liking, I doubt you'll gain anything that really inspires you by going to a 7070.

The 7070 is a nice receiver, but is not in the same power class, nor is a direct coupled high speed amp as in the 8900ZDB. Not sure how much looks factor in, but I personally prefer the looks of the 9090 (and by extension the 7070) over either the 7000 or the first gen Z series. Since the real objective is the sound quality, aesthetics may be something you can overlook.

I kind of solved that problem by just buying all the models I really liked over a period of many years. Of course, I've tied up obscene amounts of money and space in so doing, and realize that isn't a workable plan for a lot of - probably most - people who desire a vintage hi-fi rig. It isn't wife friendly for sure (that not being an impediment for me) and borders on obsessive collecting for sport when you get to the stage I've reached. So it isn't for everyone.

If you can afford and allow yourself multiple setups without damaging the domestic tranquility, then just get the ones you want to try out and set them up. If you need to make concessions to propriety (and not end up sleeping on the couch) then the decision making gets a bit tougher.

 

[jgscott]

I can see modding the 7000 for a lower noise floor. Can't understand how it would have been made much faster (in terms of slew rate and the like) without a substantial re-engineering of the driver and output stage, at which point it is no longer truly a 7000.

At this point you have had first hand experience listening to the 4000 and the 8900ZDB. If you are truly enamored of the sound of the 4000, then the 7000 will probably be more to your liking based on familiarity. Conversely, if you find the 8900ZDB to be more to your liking, I doubt you'll gain anything that really inspires you by going to a 7070.

The 7070 is a nice receiver, but is not in the same power class, nor is a direct coupled high speed amp as in the 8900ZDB. Not sure how much looks factor in, but I personally prefer the looks of the 9090 (and by extension the 7070) over either the 7000 or the first gen Z series. Since the real objective is the sound quality, aesthetics may be something you can overlook.

I kind of solved that problem by just buying all the models I really liked over a period of many years. Of course, I've tied up obscene amounts of money and space in so doing, and realize that isn't a workable plan for a lot of - probably most - people who desire a vintage hi-fi rig. It isn't wife friendly for sure (that not being an impediment for me) and borders on obsessive collecting for sport when you get to the stage I've reached. So it isn't for everyone.

If you can afford and allow yourself multiple setups without damaging the domestic tranquility, then just get the ones you want to try out and set them up. If you need to make concessions to propriety (and not end up sleeping on the couch) then the decision making gets a bit tougher.

Thanks for your objectiveness about the 7000. I'm committed to getting it now and happy about being committed. I'll disclose what was completely done at a later time with the person who did the restores permission. If I read correctly there was something about:

Power board
4x electrolytic capacitors replaced, all double capacity for better filtration
2x zener diodes replaced
1x dual power diode package replaced with a pair of ultrafast diodes with head spreader
2x germanium diodes replaced with Schottky diodes (germanium is fine but eventually goes bad)
Disconnected SCR protection circuit (see notes below)

**** The person who did the restore is not the Seller and has no gain in this. So with the respect that I have for them and the time they took communicating with me please lets all be respectful of what I posted they told me. Thank you.

There were many other things done and replaced and checked also.

 

[eiraved]

Can you explain in any way what you heard in the 7000 in addition to tube sound why you like the 7000 more?

Therein lies the rub...describing the sonic differences between old and new, cap coupled vs direct coupled. How do my ears hear the sound as opposed to everyone else? My era of first falling in love with listening to music was in the 60's, when tubes reigned supreme. The 7000 reminded me more of that era , where the music was a bit warmer and soothing to the ears, not harsh or "clinical" as some say. It's a bit nostalgic for me in that sense. I believe @Sansuiman spelled it out the best in post #5, and as much as I like the 7000, your experience may be totally different. You must really listen for yourself. You may wind up walking away with more than one receiver, appreciating the subtle differences each one brings to the table. I know I did, which is why I once upon a time I owned all those 7xxx series receivers.

 

[kevzep]

Thank you that is what I wanted to know. That's all we can give is ones own opinion.

I've heard a lot of different upper end G Series and owned a few myself. I know what you are saying about the G Series. I often fall back to thinking the G Series is so good sounding that I should just stick with one, but. I personally feel they are just a little over Dynamic. There is lots of good in that but, I prefer the smoother delivery and better separation flow of the previous Sansui models.

I guess I'm kinda wondering if the 7070 series is a mix of both the old and new? Or is a well restored and improved 7000 the Sansui of Sansui's.

Hopefully we can all express the what sounds best without the old what sounds best to you cliché. Thanks.

Yes see this is where we differ in opinion, I think the G's are exceedingly silky smooth, not sure what you mean by "over dynamic", dynamics are the best part of music and recording.
I dont feel the older models are "smoother" at all, I feel I am not getting the full audio story......But since I critically listen for a living, some of my adjectives and descriptions might not make sense, and vice versa....
The older models to me are not linear in the top end and it can make separation between instruments a little smeared, the air just isn't there...and the bass from older amps is not what I like either.
But this is right at the sharp end of the stick and picking on some very slight impressions.
Put it this way, I really don't care for the lower end G series amps in the X000 series, they can be a bit "brutal" for me, this is up to the G9000, I sold my 9000 recently because of that, BUT, the G9700 is a very nicely refined sound which I really like, its softer but retains linearity and detail which i feel the 9000 cannot do.
I had done a lot of work to my G9000, had upgrades in the signal path caps etc etc, but still had this inherent signature I couldn't get rid of.
The G9700 has it though, and the funny thing is my G9700 hasn't been restored, its completely original.

But I feel the 7070 could be somewhere in between and it may be what you are after, but again, rather than going for something down the production line, why not the 9090, its a much better amp, there is more to it, more development and better performance than the 7070, in my opinion, but you might like the 7070, its a crap shoot at best really.....
You just have to try and see I guess.

Being a tech also, I actually know the designs which produce the sound I like, so that makes it a bit easier for my world........

 

[pete_mac]

Yes see this is where we differ in opinion, I think the G's are exceedingly silky smooth, not sure what you mean by "over dynamic", dynamics are the best part of music and recording.
I dont feel the older models are "smoother" at all, I feel I am not getting the full audio story......But since I critically listen for a living, some of my adjectives and descriptions might not make sense, and vice versa....
The older models to me are not linear in the top end and it can make separation between instruments a little smeared, the air just isn't there...and the bass from older amps is not what I like either..

I'm right there with you on this Kev!

 

[jgscott]

Yes we all have different ears.

I forgot to mention that through the years, I have developed a slight hearing problem. Both of my ears suffer from deterioration of some upper high and midrange problems. I have substantiated this and have testing that verify's the same. I also have Tinnitus and ear ringing that comes and goes in different levels at different times.

Likely what I'm hearing is about comfort and likeness. I think difference is a fact, and a good thing. Thanks to all of the above who tried to lend me their ears, and describe what my ear limitations cant hear. That's why I was asking for more description and verification.

As a side note, back in the 70's my Dad was a Technical Editor for a Large Electronics Magazine. He was constantly shipped so many amp's and other like Headphones to review I heard a slew of amps and receivers brand new. I always had a liking to a certain sounding type. Funny as that is, I still feel the same today, hearing problems and all.

 

[AnalogueBen]

I'm committed to getting it now and happy about being committed.

Well I'm happy for you and think you're making a smart choice based on many things. Them being - the unit has been restored, your previous memory of the 4000 and now the DBZ8900, it's about the power you require, realizing that your ears my not hear as well the improved sonics of the later series, simpler design. Plus the 7000 is a rare and regarded item that you may not have the chance to buy again for some time, for the others it's more likely so. Part of this vintage audio journey for me is about the nostougia, the look, the quality and of course that sound!!! The late 60's to early 70's muscle cars are a fair comparison in a way. I love the cap coupled sound but know that it's less accurate and more coloured, yet it's what makes me the happiest...

 

[jgscott]

Well I'm happy for you and think you're making a smart choice based on many things. Them being - the unit has been restored, your previous memory of the 4000 and now the DBZ8900, it's about the power you require, realizing that your ears my not hear as well the improved sonics of the later series, simpler design. Plus the 7000 is a rare and regarded item that you may not have the chance to buy again for some time, for the others it's more likely so. Part of this vintage audio journey for me is about the nostougia, the look, the quality and of course that sound!!! The late 60's to early 70's muscle cars are a fair comparison in a way. I love the cap coupled sound but know that it's less accurate and more coloured, yet it's what makes me the happiest...

Hey thanks. All the Feedback from everyone is so helpful. Funny thing is the 4000 plays things to my ears that I miss hearing in the other Series. The mids in the 4000 series are just so kinda different good to me. I can see where ppl love the G-Series they def have a stand out sound to them.

The Sound of the 4000 in the 7000 being x2 the Watts is what Im looking forward to Headroom and other wise. I'm still hunting down the right 7070 or 8080 also. I've got to hear one. I never had. Funny how all you Guys have been so spot on about describing the Sonics Sounds so far for me. Again thanks for all lending their ears to me! LOL! Got to love AK!

 

[eiraved]

I'm still hunting down the right 7070 or 8080 also. I've got to hear one. I never had.

I've also had at one time a pair of 9090db and a 990db, which I promptly recapped all and enjoyed for years. To my ears they were better than the 7070, but once I got the 7000 I was able to let go of the death grip I had on that trio. I'm in McIntosh land now and my death grip on the 7000 is slowly loosening. If it wasn't such a rare bird it would have been gone. If you like older Sansui receivers, the 881 is also a great performer. If you want to stick to the 7's, the 771 ain't bad either!