Sansui 7070 vs SS 7000 Restored? Diffrence

[kevzep]

Yes we all have different ears.

I forgot to mention that through the years, I have developed a slight hearing problem. Both of my ears suffer from deterioration of some upper high and midrange problems. I have substantiated this and have testing that verify's the same. I also have Tinnitus and ear ringing that comes and goes in different levels at different times.

Likely what I'm hearing is about comfort and likeness. I think difference is a fact, and a good thing. Thanks to all of the above who tried to lend me their ears, and describe what my ear limitations cant hear. That's why I was asking for more description and verification.

As a side note, back in the 70's my Dad was a Technical Editor for a Large Electronics Magazine. He was constantly shipped so many amp's and other like Headphones to review I heard a slew of amps and receivers brand new. I always had a liking to a certain sounding type. Funny as that is, I still feel the same today, hearing problems and all.

Ah, right, I see. This is interesting, I have a friend in a similar situation, he cant listen to solid state amps, and cant listen to digital music, only listens to vinyl.
CD's are the worst for him.
I get where you are coming from......

 

[jgscott]

Ah, right, I see. This is interesting, I have a friend in a similar situation, he cant listen to solid state amps, and cant listen to digital music, only listens to vinyl.
CD's are the worst for him.
I get where you are coming from......

Yep.

This is what I was trying to say, with likely a bad description when I used the explanation of sounding "Over Dynamic". Maybe a bad choice of words unless ones hearing is like mine and your Friends. I didn't mention this part for trying to have others understand. Its weird because sometimes highs and tinging sounds kinda make you go crazy. Its just somewhere in the sound scale that just short circuits your ears. I kinda have the exact same problems with some CD disk and tracks. You just hit the nail on the head when you mentioned your friend. I can do Digital with tone adjustments ok.

With the less hearing in one ear being more, if my cell phone rings and I hear it sometimes I have a hard time finding it trying to zero in on where it is if I don't see it, if the ringer is down low. LOL! The thing is tho, I can hear everything quite well without problems with the exception of these odd hearing things and special situations.

Because of the CD issue I obtained this modded CD player that actually had a tube mod inside. its just so smooth to me compared to even some the best cd players out there.
Its a AH! Njoe Tjobe 4000 - Marantz CD4000. A Tube Modded CD player.

https://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/1103tjoeb/index.html

 

[kevzep]

Yep.

This is what I was trying to say, with likely a bad description when I used the explanation of sounding "Over Dynamic". Maybe a bad choice of words unless ones hearing is like mine and your Friends. I didn't mention this part for trying to have others understand. Its weird because sometimes highs and tinging sounds kinda make you go crazy. Its just somewhere in the sound scale that just short circuits your ears. I kinda have the exact same problems with some CD disk and tracks. You just hit the nail on the head when you mentioned your friend. I can do Digital with tone adjustments ok.

With the less hearing in one ear being more, if my cell phone rings and I hear it sometimes I have a hard time finding it trying to zero in on where it is if I don't see it, if the ringer is down low. LOL! The thing is tho, I can hear everything quite well without problems with the exception of these odd hearing things and special situations.

Because of the CD issue I obtain this modded CD player that actually had a tube mod inside. its just so smooth to me compared to even some the best cd players out there.
Its a AH! Njoe Tjobe 4000 - Marantz CD4000. A Tube Modded CD player.

https://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/1103tjoeb/index.html


View attachment 1561623 View attachment 1561624 View attachment 1561632

At least you are aware of the situation and can work around it, and know what sort of amps and formats you can listen to. Softening the highs will stop your tinnitus getting aggravated and triggering it.
I believe a reduction in dynamic range could also help as you are less likely to get something which suddenly pokes out and aggravates your hearing......
I know what you mean about some sounds/frequencies that short circuit in your hearing, even though I can still hear to just over 17,200hz at 53, I am sure I have some sort of hearing damage, I have consistent tinnitus but its not too bad, although I have to be careful about how long I am exposed to loud music which for me is an occupational hazard.
Luckily I am not engineering so much these days as much as doing the system teching, so I am phase/time aligning and tuning and checking coverage and doing the deployment plans. I then use special moulded ear plugs which have a special attenuator in them which makes the frequency response the same as not wearing them.
I wear these 95% of the time I am working.

I think my days playing in bands is done, its often too loud on stage for me, its not a nice environment for me now, but obviously when I was younger I used to love it......I still enjoy playing a lot though, which I just do at home with backing tracks these days.

Definitely something to think about as we all get a bit older....

 

[kevzep]

Oh by the way, that CD player is pretty cool, I had a Carver CD player with a Tube buffer stage in it, I wish I had never got rid of it!!

 

[jgscott]

At least you are aware of the situation and can work around it, and know what sort of amps and formats you can listen to. Softening the highs will stop your tinnitus getting aggravated and triggering it.
I believe a reduction in dynamic range could also help as you are less likely to get something which suddenly pokes out and aggravates your hearing......
I know what you mean about some sounds/frequencies that short circuit in your hearing, even though I can still hear to just over 17,200hz at 53, I am sure I have some sort of hearing damage, I have consistent tinnitus but its not too bad, although I have to be careful about how long I am exposed to loud music which for me is an occupational hazard.
Luckily I am not engineering so much these days as much as doing the system teching, so I am phase/time aligning and tuning and checking coverage and doing the deployment plans. I then use special moulded ear plugs which have a special attenuator in them which makes the frequency response the same as not wearing them.
I wear these 95% of the time I am working.

I think my days playing in bands is done, its often too loud on stage for me, its not a nice environment for me now, but obviously when I was younger I used to love it......I still enjoy playing a lot though, which I just do at home with backing tracks these days.

Definitely something to think about as we all get a bit older....

Yea I likely have the problem I have at age 57 due custom Car audio and Subs that I played way to loud when I was younger. Sounds like you know exactly what I'm saying about trying to Taylor sounds to my ears. Thanks.

 

[jgscott]

I've also had at one time a pair of 9090db and a 990db, which I promptly recapped all and enjoyed for years. To my ears they were better than the 7070, but once I got the 7000 I was able to let go of the death grip I had on that trio. I'm in McIntosh land now and my death grip on the 7000 is slowly loosening. If it wasn't such a rare bird it would have been gone. If you like older Sansui receivers, the 881 is also a great performer. If you want to stick to the 7's, the 771 ain't bad either!

Good to know.

Is the 881/771 a Cap Coupled Series?

 

[eiraved]

I couldn't tell you for sure. I owned the 881 and the rare 9010, which is the black faced 881. I traded the 881 to @Rmac587 and I believe I sold the 9010 to @desertlizard. I still wish I kept the 9010, only because of it's rareness.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/new-to-sansui-881.112639/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/condider-sansui-881.404983/
http://hudsonvalleyhifi.com/archives/2041

 

[Sansuiman]

881 and related are based upon the same basic amplifier topology as the 9090 (non-DB) by my understanding, just with far less output power. So should sound very similar to the 9090 at lower wattage.

Note that the DB variants of the 8080 and 9090 (and 890/990 for the sake of completeness) have a substantially different driver and output stage than their dolby-less siblings, making them sound a bit different yet again.

I passed up a 9010 about 20 years ago, kind of regret letting it get away now just because it is so rare. But, I was transfixed on the big boy high power models at the time and discounted the worthiness of what I considered midrange models. Love and learn I guess. That was the closest I ever got to owning an 881-221 series. Also stupidly passed on a QRX-777 that was cheap at the time, yet another one I regret blowing off.

 

[jgscott]

Well the 7070 is still on my list for a good conditioned recap/restored one. The 771 is something I will look into too. I think the 7000 with 70+ wpc in a Cap Couple recapped unit will be my cup of tea.

One thing I will say is when the volume gets turned up higher in the Sansui CC Receivers they really start to be something special and different.

 

[Sansuiman]

I don't really think you'd be disappointed in a 7070, especially one well restored. If I'm reading your sentiments correctly, you seem not to find the newer (G series and later) sound to be quite as agreeable to your tastes, even accounting for your recent outing with and praise for the 8900ZDB.

As you have found, there is a certain appeal in the cap coupled amp designs. It doesn't satisfy purists, as they have different expectations of how an amp should sound. The cap coupled sound certainly appeals to me, but likely for sentimental reasons. My first encounter with Sansui was at 4 years old when my dad brought home a model 5000 that was an unclaimed repair at a local hi-fi service center; that place is still in business now, 41 years on!

Anyway, I was immediately fascinated by it and many hours were spent listening to that receiver as I grew up so the 5000 undeniably influenced my taste in audio gear. It is still in regular use at my mom's house (dad passed some years ago) and was rebuilt again by the same shop it came from about 10 years ago. I have a 5000A and X In my own collection, and do really enjoy them.

I guess the reason I post all that is to demonstrate that these amps can still hold my interest now - so many years later - even after I've acquired many other well regarded Sansui receivers, integrateds and power amps. I'd have thought the 5000A/X would be displaced at some point for "bigger, better gear" but I still find them very listenable despite having more advanced and powerful units at my immediate disposal.

The 7070 isn't cap coupled, and I guess could be characterized as being a slightly less colored sound - though still not purist - than the 2000-5000 line of amps, and likely the 7000 as well. If I had to describe the characteristic that makes the cap coupled units stand out it would be to say they had more punch in the low to mid-bass range than the models that followed. Not that the mids and highs are bad by any means, but they are not quite as articulated as with the DC designs like the G series and 8900ZDB which were well along in the evolution of the Sansui sound. Just keep in mind the 7070 will not sound like a cap coupled amp, because it isn't.

 

[Bahamayellow]

Oh by the way, that CD player is pretty cool, I had a Carver CD player with a Tube buffer stage in it, I wish I had never got rid of it!!

Remember the 30 second countdown for the tubes to warm up. Bought this a couple years ago can’t believe the sound coming out this old CD player. There was a guy selling a brand new one on the bay a few months back but it was the 5 disc version. I almost pulled the trigger as the price was reasonable. I didn’t and the next week it was 300 dollars more and it sold. ??? Weird how things go up and sell.

 

[kevzep]

Remember the 30 second countdown for the tubes to warm up. Bought this a couple years ago can’t believe the sound coming out this old CD player. There was a guy selling a brand new one on the bay a few months back but it was the 5 disc version. I almost pulled the trigger as the price was reasonable. I didn’t and the next week it was 300 dollars more and it sold. ??? Weird how things go up and sell.
View attachment 1566538

Oh man I might have to look for one of those.....

 

[jgscott]

881 and related are based upon the same basic amplifier topology as the 9090 (non-DB) by my understanding, just with far less output power. So should sound very similar to the 9090 at lower wattage.

Note that the DB variants of the 8080 and 9090 (and 890/990 for the sake of completeness) have a substantially different driver and output stage than their dolby-less siblings, making them sound a bit different yet again.

I passed up a 9010 about 20 years ago, kind of regret letting it get away now just because it is so rare. But, I was transfixed on the big boy high power models at the time and discounted the worthiness of what I considered midrange models. Love and learn I guess. That was the closest I ever got to owning an 881-221 series. Also stupidly passed on a QRX-777 that was cheap at the time, yet another one I regret blowing off.

Are you saying that the 881 and 7070/8080 (Non DB), kinda have the same signature sound? Or close? I'm asking opinions now because I'm in the process of making a decision on another Receiver.

 

[Sansuiman]

Such has been my understanding. I'd say that I haven't directly examined schematics and compared the two series, but it has been posted here before that they share the same basic amplifier topology. This was simply scaled up for much higher output power in the 8080 and 9090. Given that, I would figure they'd sound very close at equal power levels.

Now, keep in mind there may be differences in the control amp that may well lend a slightly different sound to one series versus the other. I've no idea if that's the case, so it would be a good idea to audition anything you are considering buying.

 

[playittwice]

I’ll give you my experience. I started this whole vintage thing with a 661. Then thought I had to get the TOTL amps, so that’s what I did. I got a 9090 and did a a/b comparison. For power the 9090 obviously won out, but for a nice warmer tone the 661 did it for me. Not a huge difference but noticeable.

I would buy a or recommend any of the xx1 series receivers.

My latest purchases have been cap-coupled and they seem to do it for me. I have tube amps as well, and I think they are as close to tube sound I’ve heard. YMMV.

Edit:
Speakers play a big role in amp choices as well. I’m sure you know that, but thought I’d mention it.

 

[jgscott]

Ok thanks to both. So what I'm trying to get a better feel for is the way the 7070 - 9090 sounds. More like the Newer Sounding Sansui's?

 

[Sansuiman]

It is difficult to quantify in writing how it differers from both the cap coupled models that came before it, and the direct coupled high speed amps that came after it. As I've commented previously, the cap coupled models had a sound all their own. The most notable characteristic of them is probably the heavy but very tight low end response. They also seem to deliver power that sounds like a lot more than their published rating.

The direct coupled amps of more advanced design (starting with the G series and progressing onward through super feed forward, X balanced, and the various Alpha amp designs) all strove for very fast rise times, ultra low TIM distortion (Sansui having apparently invented the first effective means of measuring it) and ultra high bandwith (so called DC to daylight frequency response).

While earlier solid state models had a noticeable tendency to color the sound in certain ways (often owing to the frequency repsonse curve produced by the control amp section moreso than the output stage) that was apparently well liked by many listeners, the DC designs - increasingly as time went on - sought to deliver far greater accuracy and less coloring of the sound as was evident in models from tbe 9090DB back to the the start of the solid state era. This reduced the emphasis on the low end that is so commonly spoke of in the cap coupled models, but one should not interpret that as a lack of low end grunt or any sort of inadeaquacy in the DC amps.

The 9090 and related models represent the last of the pre-DC era amp - slower and not as technically refined - but they were the opening gambit in the so called horsepower wars. 9090 was Sansui's first receiver to deliver over 100 WPC, in direct response to the SX-1010 by Piioneer that launched just ahead of it.

It isn't quite as punchy as the 5000 and other cap coupled amps, but is does deliever a very solid sound with a lot of power to back it up. I'd not say it is terribly different from cap coupled, and I think it sounds great, but most people will probably notice a subtle difference.

Of course I recognize that some more critical listeners will find it not as much to their liking as the later DC designs. Especially so if the formative phase of their listening habits were on such newer gear to begin with.

Sales of the 9090 and related models speak highly of their popularity. They are very highly sought after models and sell quite well at realistic asking prices. Then again, almost all Sansui "vintage" - a word that has a fairly broad definition at this point - is selling well right now, and most at prices that are as high as they've ever been or veey close to it.

 

[Bahamayellow]

Prices on vintage sansui receivers and intergrateds have exploded in the last few years. 10 years ago for my 7000 was free from a neighbor. My g-4500 was pennies on the dollar. Saw a g8000 4 years ago and said you want how much. Saw one 3 months ago and paid more ugh lol.

 

[jgscott]

Thanks. Can anyone who knows or/and heard, tell me if the 7070 sounds less appealing or different Sounding than the 8080/9090??

And........ yes I know it a individual feeling. Just asking?

 

[eiraved]

Thanks. Can anyone who knows or/and heard, tell me if the 7070 sounds less appealing or different Sounding than the 8080/9090?? And........ yes I know it a individual feeling. Just asking?

No substantial difference to me, having owned at one time the 7070 and the 9090/990db. You do get a nice power boost with the 9090, which is always good when you need it.

I think the advice given by @Sansuiman was pretty spot on. I tend to gravitate toward tubes and cap-coupled designs because I'm a child of the 60's. The music coming out of those designs resonates with my memories more so than later designs. You may find out it is the same for you, depending on when you first gained interest in music.