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Sansui TU-666 almost totally deaf on FM

PE9ZZ

Event Horizon
Subscriber
Got this cursed tuner with the iconic round tuning dial in today with the complaint "no stereo". Turns out the thing is deaf as hell. At first I thought the front end was fried as I could not detect a signal at 10.7 MHz at its output. I then discovered its LO was tuned 11.3 MHz above the receive frequency. When injecting this frequency into the IF strip at the highest power my signal generator can make, 13 dBm, I got a response on the signal level meter. I have seen this issue before with a Pioneer SX-6000 which has a similar IF strip with tuned LC filter transformers. It transpired that all eight capacitors in those cans were bad and had to be replaced to get it going again.

The question now of course is: is Sansui known for the same issue? I believe the cans in the Pioneer were TOKO made but have yet to investigate further. Will have to enlist the help of my HP3336 sweeper...
 
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Oh. So I hooked up my trusty AD8307 log detector and found it produced a signal. Way into limiting. Had to reduce my signal generator down to -66 dBm to get it out of limiting. I then started to turn the slug of T205 and was rewarded with a needle swinging upwards. Someone had detuned it. Has to be its owner... Anyway, it is now stereo, sort of, but I think that is a matter of adjustment. The STEREO light came on right away so that is promising. The MUTING circuit is a bit weird as it deprives TR203 (discriminator driver) of bias.
 
Ah yes, the old "it wasn't pulling stations very well or lighting up in stereo so I tried turning EVERYTHING until it stopped showing any signs of life at all" - gotta love people that do that (speaking of someone that got in it ahead of you, of course).

John
 
It actually was even worse. While the owner did adjust some stuff the IF coils were left alone. It was a very insidious fault: there was oscillation in the IF strip due to interaction with the signal meter amp. I opted to remove it completely and replace it with a triple diode detector, similar to the AGC circuit already in place. It seems to be working OK although it prolly could use a buffer. Major advantage is the log-ish response this kludge of the signal meter. Only at higher levels it becomes cramped. Maybe I'll write a story about this mod. Still have to verify stuff like mono-stereo switchover and the like.
 
Ah yes, the old "it wasn't pulling stations very well or lighting up in stereo so I tried turning EVERYTHING until it stopped showing any signs of life at all" - gotta love people that do that (speaking of someone that got in it ahead of you, of course).

John

I have felt that pain. But mine was back when colour TV's had dozens of tubes, transistors, integrated circuits and sometimes even all three technologies incorporated on the same chassis. There was a heck of a lot to align in those days, and therefore much more for the customer to twiddle. Don't even want to think about convergence...
 
Finally got it right. Involved redesigning the IF strip. I am preparing a little writeup about it. Until then, enjoy this:

sansui_tu-666_scale.jpg
 
Here is my writeup. As I stated above, this was a complicated repair. The original complaint was "no stereo" which was essentially correct. The signal level meter did nothing and because the level threshold for stereo depends on the signal level it never was enabled. The IF strip looks like this:
sansui_tu-666_f-1262_sch.png

The signal level is derived from a sample of the IF signal on TR202's collector. As this is at the end of the IF chain it is likely to be in limiting from a low input level so the effectivity of the indication is minimal. But what made things worse was the interaction of the amplifier TR204 and TR202. With a small pickup loop held close to TR204 I could see what was happening with my trusty HP 8595E spectrum analyzer. With the IF signal in the middle of the IF filter it is fine:
sansui_tu-666_q204_ok.jpg

But if it is off-center TR204 misbehaves:
sansui_tu-666_q204_misbehaving.jpg

The signal meter then indicates a higher level and you might think that tuning is optimal. However, due to the oscillation of TR204 (or TR202) the demodulated audio is distorted. Because the signal meter circuit was designed so stupidly I decided not to try to find the cause of its insurrection but to replace it with a circuit of my own design:
sansui_tu-666_kludge.jpg

The advantage of this circuit is that it also works at higher signal levels as it acts as a log detector. It uses technology from its time and thus is period correct. It works by taking samples at three points in the limiter. As the level increases and each stage goes into limiting the increase will move to the front of the limiter resulting in a more or less log response of the detected signal level. The diodes are placed in series and will add their detected voltages which end up at TP4. A buffer transistor removes the load imposed by the signal meter and VR201/2. The diode compensates for the V(be) voltage of the buffer transistor.

There is plenty of space on the PCB to accommodate it with the TR204 components removed:
sansui_tu-666_top.jpg

sansui_tu-666_l202.jpg

sansui_tu-666_tp4.jpg

The performance of the log detector is pretty good:
sansui_tu-666_levels.png

There is a bend in the curve at -80 dBm which could be tweaked by changing the coupling capacitors to the diode chain but as a indicator it works well enough. Getting rid of it would have been a huge effort. I could also have made a detector based on an AD8307 had I wanted better linearity. That would not have been period correct.

Stereo threshold, muting level and signal meter were adjusted. I completed the fix by tweaking the front end, which was almost smack on.

That was quite a journey, and all that for a tuner that is now half a century old!
 
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Impressive!

(it also implies I have an impressive amount of things to learn ;) )

Of course, I wonder if all TU-666 suffer from the same problem, more or less.

My own TU666 does give stereo but only at strong stations and sound quality is not that good.

Having no RF experience When recapping the power supply I just "hoped" things would be better by stabilizing the power voltage

What would be the easiest thing to do for somebody without sufficient tuner experience, nor having the proper tools, to check? Just take out TR204 and see if receiption/sound gets better?
 
That is a problem... I am blessed with a great inventory of test equipment. Removing TR204 (or just shorting its B-E pins) will certainly rule out other issues. Of course it will kill the signal meter. The TU-666 I have here was not misaligned significantly enough to cause those. But you are welcome to drop it off in Amsterdam-West to have it receive a "Regenpak" treatment. I have enough geranium diodes in my Ge-diodes tray. And my stock of Tripel beers is running low :P

Incidentally, I did not recap anything. Not necessary. The ratio detector capacitor C217 sometimes benefits from replacement. In this case it already was replaced by the owner so I cannot tell here.
 
Ah your mod is easy to implement! (plenty of "geraniums" here also, I sometimes did buy little "lots" of electronic components on marktplaats.....)

Nevertheless I appreciate your invitation and will remember it! :)
 
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