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Should I upgrade my table or replace it?

AceTechHD

AceTechHD

Active Member
Currently I have an American Audio VTD-1000 DJ turntable (broken tonearm rest and no dust cover) with a Sure M44E cartridge. I'm not a DJ, the reason I got a DJ table is because it was fairly inexpensive ($40) and I wanted to upgrade from a cheap Denon turntable I had previously. After getting the American Audio table I regained my love for vinyl, this caused me to notice a large amount of sibilance on just about every album with vocals. There's also quite a bit of surface noise on every album I play (even brand new albums). Now with all of that said, I've determined the source of the problem is likely the cheaper Sure cartridge. I have my sights set on either just upgrading the entire table (to the AT LP5) or just fitting my American Audio table with a NAGAOKA MP-110 (and upgrading to the AT LP5 at a later date). Currently i'm probably going to go ahead and order the NAGAOKA MP-101H. I'd appreciate any advice I could get to alleviate the issue.
 
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AceTechHD said:
Currently I have an American Audio VTD-1000 DJ turntable (broken tonearm rest and no dust cover) with a Sure M44E cartridge. I'm not a DJ, the reason I got a DJ table is because it was fairly inexpensive ($40) and I wanted to upgrade from a cheap Denon turntable I had previously. After getting the American Audio table I regained my love for vinyl, this caused me to notice a large amount of sibilance on just about every album with vocals. There's also quite a bit of surface noise on every album I play (even brand new albums). Now with all of that said, I've determined the source of the problem is likely the cheaper Sure cartridge. I have my sights set on either just upgrading the entire table (to the AT LP5) or just fitting my American Audio table with a NAGAOKA MP-110 (and upgrading to the AT LP5 at a later date). Currently i'm probably going to go ahead and order the NAGAOKA MP-101H. I'd appreciate any advice I could get to alleviate the issue.
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sounds like you are looking under the $200 range, i would buy a u turn orbit with the grado black cart mounted for $234, or even $179 with the ortofon cart isnt bad, before i purchased the AT, that will get u in the game as far as a brand name cart and a clean sounding entry table.
 
AceTechHD said:
Currently I have an American Audio VTD-1000 DJ turntable (broken tonearm rest and no dust cover) with a Sure M44E cartridge. I'm not a DJ, the reason I got a DJ table is because it was fairly inexpensive ($40) and I wanted to upgrade from a cheap Denon turntable I had previously. After getting the American Audio table I regained my love for vinyl, this caused me to notice a large amount of sibilance on just about every album with vocals. There's also quite a bit of surface noise on every album I play (even brand new albums). Now with all of that said, I've determined the source of the problem is likely the cheaper Sure cartridge. I have my sights set on either just upgrading the entire table (to the AT LP5) or just fitting my American Audio table with a NAGAOKA MP-110 (and upgrading to the AT LP5 at a later date). Currently i'm probably going to go ahead and order the NAGAOKA MP-101H. I'd appreciate any advice I could get to alleviate the issue.
Click to expand...

I would look for a better turntable.
 
I would buy neither the Audio Technica or the U Turn. If you are trying to stay in the 200 to 300 dollar price range, I would be shopping the used market for a well cared for used table from the 70's or 80's. Perhaps one that has had a bit of restoration/refurbishment/maintenance done to it. You will get a far better table in terms of sound quality, build, and probably lifespan. Of course there are no guarantees that it will be trouble free. But if you shop carefully, and perhaps spend a few more dollars for one in excellent shape, you are likely to have a favorable and satisfying purchase.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
freQ(*)Oddio said:
sounds like you are looking under the $200 range, i would buy a u turn orbit with the grado black cart mounted for $234, or even $179 with the ortofon cart isnt bad, before i purchased the AT, that will get u in the game as far as a brand name cart and a clean sounding entry table.
Click to expand...
I've had a few belt driven turntables. One was a nightmare, and the other worked well. Honestly ever since getting the AA table I have now, I wouldn't go back to belt drive (unless we're talking Linn LP12). I'm looking for a really solid well made direct drive table. I'm torn between the AT LP120 and their LP5. I'm not a DJ so I don't really need the features of the LP120. The LP5 features a better cartridge among other changes that would benefit home listening (and recording to digital)
 
AceTechHD said:
I'm curious what table you'd recommend, brand new or vintage (under $500).
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For under 5 you could get a very nice vintage turntable. On the low end, say $150 to $200, a Technics belt drive like the SL-23, or something fancier like the Technics SL-1800 (direct drive) for maybe around $300.00. That would leave you enough to get a high quality stylus for the Shure M44 cartridge...

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?products_id=1012
 
Under $500? You can probably find a Technics SL-1200 or one of its derivatives (e.g. SL-1600, SL-1700, SL-1650 etc.) for that money.

Just be aware that you do need to evaluate them, especially a 1200 Mk2, for being slap wore out from DJ use, but they're actually pretty darn respectable turntables. Technics originally designed that series for the home market; they kind of backed into the broadcast and DJ market when they were picked up by that crowd. That's why it's the Mk2 versions that got the quartz lock and pitch shifters.

I was lucky enough to find a SL-1650 (changer version, there never was a 1650 Mk2) on my local Craigslist that was owned by an older gentleman who just wanted a good table for home use. The "relatives" of the 1200 are likely to be found in better condition than the 1200 Mk2 itself, but never say never. (I'd buy a good 1200 Mk2 in a heartbeat just for nostalgia of using it at the radio station in college)

I don't even know that your cartridge is holding you back. Have you printed out an alignment protractor and set it up properly? Tracking force? I'm running M91EDs myself because I seem to be swimming in them (one table has a V15-ii, almost the same cart, go figure), but I've heard positive comments about the M44, and would not dismiss it out of hand. Setting stuff up 100% spot on is never a bad endeavor, and the more you do it, the more you'll be able to get the most out of any new/step up tables that may cross your path in the future. It's one of those skills that anyone seriously into vinyl ought to have (and TBH, I'm far from expert, but I have taken a few stabs at it and have been happy with the results.)
 
AceTechHD said:
I'm curious what table you'd recommend, brand new or vintage (under $500).
Click to expand...
for new the only direct drive in that price range is a $350 table, the pioneer plx 500. you put a nagaoka on that table and you will be ok for a while, i would not mind the plx issues that get posted , i would tighten the arm play if it did actually have that issue, i understand all the hanpin copies and discussions about the plx, but for $350 and if it has to be a new direct drive , that would be it, then you get the Nag cart and you have something to enjoy.
 
of course a used would be a tech 12, just watch the speed creeping issues that can happen on some used ones, then your a fixer and not a listener.
 
malden said:
For under 5 you could get a very nice vintage turntable. On the low end, say $150 to $200, a Technics belt drive like the SL-23, or something fancier like the Technics SL-1800 (direct drive) for maybe around $300.00. That would leave you enough to get a high quality stylus for the Shure M44 cartridge...

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?products_id=1012
Click to expand...

People don't typically like parting with their Technics tables but I'll keep my eye out, maybe I'll find a used one somewhere. It's possible my stylus is just worn out, but I'm ready for an upgrade regardless. probably will jump on the NAGAOKA as soon as I get the chance.
 
AceTechHD said:
People don't typically like parting with their Technics tables but I'll keep my eye out, maybe I'll find a used one somewhere. It's possible my stylus is just worn out, but I'm ready for an upgrade regardless. probably will jump on the NAGAOKA as soon as I get the chance.
Click to expand...

What are the other components in your system?
 
N8Nagel said:
Under $500? You can probably find a Technics SL-1200 or one of its derivatives (e.g. SL-1600, SL-1700, SL-1650 etc.) for that money.

Just be aware that you do need to evaluate them, especially a 1200 Mk2, for being slap wore out from DJ use, but they're actually pretty darn respectable turntables. Technics originally designed that series for the home market; they kind of backed into the broadcast and DJ market when they were picked up by that crowd. That's why it's the Mk2 versions that got the quartz lock and pitch shifters.

I was lucky enough to find a SL-1650 (changer version, there never was a 1650 Mk2) on my local Craigslist that was owned by an older gentleman who just wanted a good table for home use. The "relatives" of the 1200 are likely to be found in better condition than the 1200 Mk2 itself, but never say never. (I'd buy a good 1200 Mk2 in a heartbeat just for nostalgia of using it at the radio station in college)

I don't even know that your cartridge is holding you back. Have you printed out an alignment protractor and set it up properly? Tracking force? I'm running M91EDs myself because I seem to be swimming in them (one table has a V15-ii, almost the same cart, go figure), but I've heard positive comments about the M44, and would not dismiss it out of hand. Setting stuff up 100% spot on is never a bad endeavor, and the more you do it, the more you'll be able to get the most out of any new/step up tables that may cross your path in the future. It's one of those skills that anyone seriously into vinyl ought to have (and TBH, I'm far from expert, but I have taken a few stabs at it and have been happy with the results.)
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know what the issue is. The best I could do is record a song a two and upload it on YouTube so you can hear. It just picks up an obscene amount of surface noise and has sibilance issues on just about every song I listen to. Kinda makes spinning a record pointless with how distorted it gets.
 
I would repair the rest, be sure that the stylus isn't damaged, and be sure it is aligned and balanced properly. VTF and azimuth are also important. On a quality clean record you should have very little surface noise. Once you get it fixed up, you should be able to sell it if there is something you don't like about it, and get something else. As you move to better components and speakers, it will be easier to hear TT and cartridge differences.
 
Freddymac2 said:
I would repair the rest, be sure that the stylus isn't damaged, and be sure it is aligned and balanced properly. VTF and azimuth are also important. On a quality clean record you should have very little surface noise. Once you get it fixed up, you should be able to sell it if there is something you don't like about it, and get something else. As you move to better components and speakers, it will be easier to hear TT and cartridge differences.
Click to expand...
My Realistic LAB 1600 Linear Tracking table had amazing channel separation and very low surface noise. The channel separation on the M44E is much worse and it picks up just too much noise for my liking, not to mention the sibilance distortion. I think it's a good table, it runs absolutely silent and is built surprisingly well.
 
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