Hmm... that doesn't seem right.
Slightly Skewed Cantilever on NEW 2M Bronze Stylus (and more)
- Thread starter atomvinter
- Start date
atomvinter
New Member
for the record, i meant LPTunes per my original post (fixed it in the previous post), though LPGear apparently also owns LPTunes.Hmm... that doesn't seem right.
and yeah, it sure doesnt. i searched around on people's experience with them before i ordered and it largely seemed ok. i just dont see how else they could offer some of the products they do at such a discount without there being a catch, whether or not they disclose it
atomvinter
New Member
in case anyone out there cares to know, as an update, im driving myself further into madness. i started to feel like i was noticing that there was a slight channel imbalance, spending (wasting?) too much time trying to assess the situation by ear one speaker at a time. i then tried with headphones, which confused me even more because it sounded right...i think... i even noticed that one of the headshell leads had a little room to be pushed forward towards the cart and got excited, hoping to hear some stark difference - which of course i did not. other sources sound correct through the receiver (and i never noticed this before now with my old stylus) so im still trying to rule out speaker placement as what made me start to feel there was an imbalance.
the only way i have to actually measure the cart's output is to put the turntable through one of my audio interfaces and record the signal and inspect the waveforms, so i spent awhile looking for the female RCA to 1/4" adapters that i would often see when i had no need for them but are now nowhere to be found. my return authorization is only still good for a little over a week, so now im leaning towards just sending this thing back. of course, i have some hours on it now so maybe theyre going to ultimately tell me to kick rocks and im out some money, who knows!
the only way i have to actually measure the cart's output is to put the turntable through one of my audio interfaces and record the signal and inspect the waveforms, so i spent awhile looking for the female RCA to 1/4" adapters that i would often see when i had no need for them but are now nowhere to be found. my return authorization is only still good for a little over a week, so now im leaning towards just sending this thing back. of course, i have some hours on it now so maybe theyre going to ultimately tell me to kick rocks and im out some money, who knows!
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My advice is to either remove the stylus from the cartridge and take more pictures, which you would want to do anyway, if you return it, or remove the whole cartridge or headshell and try a different cartridge. And if you don't have another cartridge, you need to buy one just for comparison anyway. You can buy a used cartridge on the auction site, preferably with a working stylus for cheap. If you spend a bit of time doing it, you can find good one for a cheap price. That gives you a comparison and takes away the focus you have on this problem.
If you want a quick and dirty suggestion, just send the stylus back. You are not happy with it, and you may just be beating yourself up trying to evaluate whether you are being reasonable or not. As they say (or at least used to say) in retail, "the customer is always right." So, you are right. If you still have difficulty deciding what to do, flip a coin.
If you want a quick and dirty suggestion, just send the stylus back. You are not happy with it, and you may just be beating yourself up trying to evaluate whether you are being reasonable or not. As they say (or at least used to say) in retail, "the customer is always right." So, you are right. If you still have difficulty deciding what to do, flip a coin.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
A friend of mine had the same issue with his bronze when new. It also had a noticeable twist to the cantilever placing the stylus off the vertical axis. So he tried a Denon 301 and he liked the smoothness of the sound. But even at 1.6 grams it didn't always track that well. max rating is 1.4 grams. We used a Ortofon test record to set the anti skating with no distortion on the 60 band at 1.6 grams. He is still not happy. So he is getting a new stylus assembly custom built by JICO for his V-15 V. Maybe what he needs is to add the damping fluid tray accessory to the tone arm of the SL 1300 G. What are your thoughts?
Being professional violinist he does not like how most classical albums (LPs) render violins when playing loudly giving a strident sound. He admits the violin sounds Telarc and Sheffield Labs capture on Direct to Disc and on CD is what he is after from his Technics Turntable.
I think movie studios capture violin sound the best has been my experience. Skywalker Sound in particular. But thats just me.
Being professional violinist he does not like how most classical albums (LPs) render violins when playing loudly giving a strident sound. He admits the violin sounds Telarc and Sheffield Labs capture on Direct to Disc and on CD is what he is after from his Technics Turntable.
I think movie studios capture violin sound the best has been my experience. Skywalker Sound in particular. But thats just me.
Step back to your usual listening position. Play an LP and keep your eyes closed to concentrate on the clarity of the instruments and vocals.
Then report back.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
I use the Ortofon Test record and the meters on My Mcintosh amps to set the balance for the TT. Its off about 3/4 of a db. Enough to shift a mono recording off center about a foot or so to the right. But as most recordings now days are multichannel mono who knows when the balance is correct. Even on CD's.
Forgive me if I missed it, but did you ever try the original head shell with the new stylus? I'm still wondering how that would sound, kind of back to comparing apples to apples since that was what the bronze was mounted on before you got the new stylus. If for no other reason, it will hopefully provide you with a perspective you do not yet have......
Edit: You can compare the output on each channel to assess balance with your phone if you have the decibel app on it, which is a free app. If you measure each channel holding the phone in the same position in front of each speaker, say 3 inches from the mid driver, you can get pretty darn close in terms of a reliable comparison.
PS - It helps to have a test LP to do this as you can use a constant frequency, such as a 1kHz tone.
Edit: You can compare the output on each channel to assess balance with your phone if you have the decibel app on it, which is a free app. If you measure each channel holding the phone in the same position in front of each speaker, say 3 inches from the mid driver, you can get pretty darn close in terms of a reliable comparison.
PS - It helps to have a test LP to do this as you can use a constant frequency, such as a 1kHz tone.
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lini
just me...
Unlikely, imo. It would rather seem, that Orotofon's quality control has generally become somewhat sloppy.
In fact, last time Steffen and I visited Dualfred, he mentioned, that such problems unfortunately quite frequently occur with the 2Ms for the new Dual turntable models. And from personal experience I can report, that I've once received two faulty new 320 needles - one just had a slightly rotated cantilever, on the other the cantilever wasn't only slightly rotated, but also pointing a bit sideways. I've managed to correct both myself, though.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
cafe latte
Addicted Member
The suspension is not glued in so a bump can rotate it.Thanks for this update! I hadn't heard about Ortofon's recent QA issues.
Yes tweaking can align it back.
Chris
Chris, will turning it not cause the wires to also move that are attached to the cantilever? Will that not cause a problem internally? Or, can a turning of the suspension of such a small amount not have any adverse outcomes for those? I assume those are the coil wires, correct? I really enjoy learning about this stuff. Thanks!
lini
just me...
I'd guess, that Chris foremost refers to "newer" (relatively) non-MC models like the 2Ms (or in my case the 3xxes), Andreas. In case of these the cantilever assembly can be freely rotated in its suspension (as unlike the older ones these don't sport a tie/orientation wire anymore). In fact, when I corrected one the two faulty 320 needles, just for fun I've rotated it so far, that the tip would point upwards, which looked pretty hilarious.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
lini
just me...
Why would there be any in case of an MM or MI? In case of these the cantilever wiggles either the magnet or the piece of highly permeable material, that serves as conductor/modulator for the field of a stationary magnet, thus causing electromagnetic induction into the stationary coils. Only in case of MCs the cantilever wiggles the coils within the field of a staionary magnet.
Hence also somewhat different approach. I.e., as the wiggled bit has to be pretty light, MCs work with a comparatively strong magnetic field, as their tiny coils are comparatively insensitive sensors. Whereas in case of typical MMs and MIs the coils are pretty highly sensitive, as the magnetic field or respectively its modulation is comparatively weak.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
And dreamt it up so many years ago. Basically, a system that has remained the same.
That reminds me of this:
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